Columbia Economic Notes

[The_sandlapper]

Bold moves but I think they are thinking more long term with the construction of Innovista. I guess they figure it will start drawing intrest from everyone in the field of hydrogen research to the city, and while they're here hey why not check out The Vista.

Which poses another question. How big do you guys think the vista will get? I see it taking shape pretty much like Y'bor in Tampa. One of the good things is that Y'bor is very pedestrian friendly. The Vista area heading over towards the library, and Finely I think is heading up that way. That would look real nice with some mid to low rise development.

[emerging.me]

I've been comparing it to Y'bor lately. I think that's the way it will go... except even cooler. I'd love to see a Gameworks in there!

Regarding hotels... I used to think we were going to have hotel overload, but I was talking with my wife recently... she works for USC and their department will still have to hold their annual conference elsewhere after the Hilton is built because there aren't going to be enough hotel rooms in close proximity to the convention center. I can't help but think there are other groups in the same boat. So... I say bring on the hotels.

[krazeeboi]

Although state government is a sure bet in terms of stability (I don't foresee Charleston regaining capital city status-ever), it doesn't represent a booming, fast-growing, high-paying sector of the economy. I guess this why Innovista has such momentum behind it, as it will seek for more diversification with those high-paying, fast-growing jobs.

[krazeeboi]

Wow...who would've thunk? Let's see if I can name all of the hotels in the downtown area: Hilton (future), Hampton, Marriott, Best Western, Sheraton (future), Holiday Inn Coliseum...hmmm, I guess when you think about it, there really aren't a whole of hotels in the area. I hope if a new hotel does come to the old HOC site, it will be something like a Hyatt, DoubleTree, Embassy Suites, Westin, etc.

[CorgiMatt]

Bold moves but I think they are thinking more long term with the construction of Innovista. I guess they figure it will start drawing intrest from everyone in the field of hydrogen research to the city, and while they're here hey why not check out The Vista.

Which poses another question. How big do you guys think the vista will get? I see it taking shape pretty much like Y'bor in Tampa. One of the good things is that Y'bor is very pedestrian friendly. The Vista area heading over towards the library, and Finely I think is heading up that way. That would look real nice with some mid to low rise development.

The western edge of the Vista (not West Columbia) will line the greenway along the Congaree River from Granby Mill Village to Elmwood Avenue, and the southern edge will line Blossom Street to Assembly. Infill development will create a nonstop urban downtown core that will be larger than any downtown area that currently exists or that will exist anywhere in the state. On the east side of Assembly Street we will have an uptown along Main, and Five Points will remain a vibrant urban village flanking the eastern edge of a much larger university.

[Spartan]

As long as we're mentioning Y'bor, I'd like to see a Columbia Restaurant in the Vista. Of course I realize thats a pipe-dream.....

And CorgiMatt, I like those predictions. Alot of the west area along Huger south of Gervais still has a ways to go though. I think that some of the grid needs to be restored in order to have that urban downtown core that you speak of. The railroad creates a major division as well...

[krazeeboi]

I hope someone has some plans for Pulaski as well. But at least the city gets to do all of this from the ground up.

[digihoop]

The railroad creates a major division as well...

This is somewhat off topic but, I wonder what the likelihood of removing the railroad tracks from the vista/downtown area? Any evidence that this has been considered by the city?

Edited November 27, 2005 by digihoop

[waccamatt]

This is somewhat off topic but, I wonder what the likelihood of removing the railroad tracks from the vista/downtown area? Any evidence that this has been considered by the city?

Railroads are an important part of Columbia's history and growth, so I don't want to see them removed from the downtown area completely. Many of them are below street evel, except for the ones that cross Assembly Street, Huger Street and Rosewood Drive. I'd like to see these put below street level, too, but not removed entirely.

[CorgiMatt]

As long as we're mentioning Y'bor, I'd like to see a Columbia Restaurant in the Vista. Of course I realize thats a pipe-dream.....

And CorgiMatt, I like those predictions. Alot of the west area along Huger south of Gervais still has a ways to go though. I think that some of the grid needs to be restored in order to have that urban downtown core that you speak of. The railroad creates a major division as well...

From Gervais to Blossom and from Huger to Pulaski, the grid is completely intact. In other areas, street and sidewalks will be a part of the development, for instance in the area bounded by Gervais, Huger, Blossom and the greenway. USC and the Guinyards are on it.

[waccamatt]

The Columbia Restaurant in Ybor is the bomb! I ate there when I was in Tampa on business about a year ago and it was incredible. Columbia is a natural place for the restaurant to expand to, but it is strictly a Tampa institution. If we go to the Outback Bowl I will have to go back.

[Spartan]

From Gervais to Blossom and from Huger to Pulaski, the grid is completely intact.

Yes, but the Vista is more than that. I belive that if the city truely wants to make the Vista become what you predicted (which I believe it does), then they will have to establish greater connectivity around those railtoad tracks. I recognize that in many cases it would be impossible (Pendleton and Senate have a wide variety of obstacles- The Vista Commons, that law firm on Gervais and Adluh Flour). College St could concieveably be restored. It would need to curve around the Carolina Center and I'm not sure if the tracks' trench exists there or not, but a surface crossing probably wouldn't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

More realisticly I think that the Greene St connection should be restored over the tracks. Other than that spot it is one of only a half dozen roads that connects Huger to Harden (Blossom is the only one south of Gervais to do this). The could trade the Devine St connection for Greene St if they are concerned about the frequency of crossings.

Of particular note I think Washington St should bridge the railroad trench and be reconnected with Huger. That could conceivably happen if the state sells that land (which I read somewhere that it would do eventually).

Pulaski could also bridge the trench bewtween Hampton and Taylor.

I realize that most of this is not going to happen. Realisticly I think only the Greense St idea would actually be considered by the city. Maybe even the Washington St bridge if there were a strong enough case, but I doubt it.

West of Huger is another area that has zero connectivity- but for obvious reasons. I think that as it is developed it should conform to the original grid that the original city was supposed to have. I think that developing Williams and Gist Streets over time is very possible. There is at least one (possibly two) streets that they planned after Gist. One I think is called Roberts Street but the other name escape me. This probably won't happen though. I don't recall CanalSide's plans as using that grid.

[CorgiMatt]

Yes, but the Vista is more than that. I belive that if the city truely wants to make the Vista become what you predicted (which I believe it does), then they will have to establish greater connectivity around those railtoad tracks. I recognize that in many cases it would be impossible (Pendleton and Senate have a wide variety of obstacles- The Vista Commons, that law firm on Gervais and Adluh Flour). College St could concieveably be restored. It would need to curve around the Carolina Center and I'm not sure if the tracks' trench exists there or not, but a surface crossing probably wouldn't be a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

More realisticly I think that the Greene St connection should be restored over the tracks. Other than that spot it is one of only a half dozen roads that connects Huger to Harden (Blossom is the only one south of Gervais to do this). The could trade the Devine St connection for Greene St if they are concerned about the frequency of crossings.

Of particular note I think Washington St should bridge the railroad trench and be reconnected with Huger. That could conceivably happen if the state sells that land (which I read somewhere that it would do eventually).

Pulaski could also bridge the trench bewtween Hampton and Taylor.

I realize that most of this is not going to happen. Realisticly I think only the Greense St idea would actually be considered by the city. Maybe even the Washington St bridge if there were a strong enough case, but I doubt it.

West of Huger is another area that has zero connectivity- but for obvious reasons. I think that as it is developed it should conform to the original grid that the original city was supposed to have. I think that developing Williams and Gist Streets over time is very possible. There is at least one (possibly two) streets that they planned after Gist. One I think is called Roberts Street but the other name escape me. This probably won't happen though. I don't recall CanalSide's plans as using that grid.

There's no reason all of it won't happen, as needed, as parcels around the disconnected areas are developed-----eventually.

[emerging.me]

Here's a story from The State on the new Drew Wellness Center. I hope it does really well... it's a really nice place and what they've done with that whole neighborhood is a real achievement.

[CorgiMatt]

The State newspaper today has an article about the hot demand for housing in the city. I'm so glad I live in town. I'm exactly 3.9 miles from the capitol and less than that from Main and Taylor, near Forest Acres. Lots of people here are finally seeing that commuting is for the birds and that living in the city is where it's at. I have my eye on the land between Gervais and Blossom off of Huger street for my future home. People who are still moving out "to get away from it all" are behind the curve.

[CorgiMatt]

I'm a low-tech person, so I don't know how to place a link on here, but a post that showed up today in the most recent postings section of this website has an attachment that links you to the MSA's and their economic strength rankings. The Columbia MSA ranks #54, Charleston's #90 and Greenville's #104.

[The_sandlapper]

No surprises there. Columbia's is stronger than people give it credit for. I know that the Columbia MSA has the highest median income of the big three.

[krazeeboi]

Interesting that you should mention that Columbia is stronger than what most people give it credit for, because that's largely true, especially in the Carolinas. On one of the Charlotte threads, it was mentioned that the SouthPark area in Charlotte had the largest amount of office space in the Carolinas outside of the Charlotte CBD. Then when stats were given to lend credence to this claim, only stats for Charlotte and Raleigh were given. I guess some thought that simply because Raleigh is a larger city, surely it has more office space in its CBD than Columbia. However, Columbia's CBD has almost 1M sq ft more inventory office space than Raleigh's CBD, making it the Carolinas' second-largest when it comes to inventory office space. And I don't think this includes First Citizens, buildings that are part of Innovista, or the office building at the former Kline Iron & Steel Site. Some of those Charlotteans better wake up and realize that there's WAY more to the Carolinas than Charlotte and Raleigh; NC is the "new kid on the block" anyway.

Edited December 3, 2005 by krazeeboi

[The_sandlapper]

That's one thing that I like about Columbia is it's resilient (that's not how to spell it but oh well). It is in a region to itself so it has always thought of itself as the bigdog! So that is the mentality of most Columbians. "We take second seat to no one", well except maybe Atlanta . But the area has relied on itself to grow and porosper much like Austin (the overgrown throwaway mid-sized college town in central texas, that was roughly the same size 20 years ago that Columbia is today, that took semi-conducter research to the next level when the time was right much like C-lum is plannig to do with feul cells today). We don't have the luxury of being located between two major fast growing meto areas, and we are not a tourist region. No matter what the odds are Columbia seems to find a way! I'm sure many people out there want to compare us with cities like Columbus, GA, Jackson, MS, and Montgomery, AL. When we are more compareable with cities like Winston-Salem, Greensboro, Knoxville, & Little Rock, mid-sized towns that are literally one step away from the Nashville's, Charlotte's, and Louisville's a decade or two from now!

But these are usually my rants when I post.

Also Columbia has the 3rd largest "census certified" MSA in the Carolinas, as well as the 4th largest urbanized area, but somehow these facts always get overlooked for the more popular crowd assumptions.

Edited December 3, 2005 by The_sandlapper

[Spartan]

I'm a low-tech person, so I don't know how to place a link on here, but a post that showed up today in the most recent postings section of this website has an attachment that links you to the MSA's and their economic strength rankings. The Columbia MSA ranks #54, Charleston's #90 and Greenville's #104.

Just copy and paste a link like you would any other. It only gets technical if you want to use code to put the link into words.

[krazeeboi]

Economic strength rankings (PDF file)

I find it interesting that in Forbes latest "Best Places for Businesses and Careers" list, Boise ID ranks first, whereas in the economic strength rankings, it ranks one place behind Columbia at 55. Hmmmm....

Edited December 3, 2005 by krazeeboi

[CorgiMatt]

Interesting that you should mention that Columbia is stronger than what most people give it credit for, because that's largely true, especially in the Carolinas. On one of the Charlotte threads, it was mentioned that the SouthPark area in Charlotte had the largest amount of office space in the Carolinas outside of the Charlotte CBD. Then when stats were given to lend credence to this claim, only stats for Charlotte and Raleigh were given. I guess some thought that simply because Raleigh is a larger city, surely it has more office space in its CBD than Columbia. However, Columbia's CBD has almost 1M sq ft more inventory office space than Raleigh's CBD, making it the Carolinas' second-largest when it comes to inventory office space. And I don't think this includes First Citizens, buildings that are part of Innovista, or the office building at the former Kline Iron & Steel Site. Some of those Charlotteans better wake up and realize that there's WAY more to the Carolinas than Charlotte and Raleigh; NC is the "new kid on the block" anyway.

I have lived in Columbia since 1984 and since then I have been continuously baffled at how there seems to be a mind set that Columbia is like a third runner-up city compared to the other SC cities. But then when I think about it, when people from other SC cities criticize Columbia, it seems all they ever say is it's hot here. So let's just go ahead and concede that for a total of 6 weeks out of the year, if that, it is stifling hot here (ignoring the fact that the heat index [how hot it feels] in Charleston is consistently higher than in Columbia during the summer according to the weather report night after night), and... and there's really nothing else to say.

[803metlife]

I have lived in Columbia since 1984 and since then I have been continuously baffled at how there seems to be a mind set that Columbia is like a third runner-up city compared to the other SC cities. But then when I think about it, when people from other SC cities criticize Columbia, it seems all they ever say is it's hot here. So let's just go ahead and concede that for a total of 6 weeks out of the year, if that, it is stifling hot here (ignoring the fact that the heat index [how hot it feels] in Charleston is consistently higher than in Columbia during the summer according to the weather report night after night), and... and there's really nothing else to say.

Your right, I can agree columbia does get over looked in so many areas. But some way columbia always pop right back up. As far as other sc cities criticizing columbia thats natural to feel inferior to the biggest city in the state. Charleston might be more urban, greenville might be cleanier!! But the bottom line columbia is the biggest, and is the only city in sc that you get a big city vibe. By the time Charlotte really realizes whats 80miles south, it will be too late. Columbia can easy compete with Raleigh & Charlotte . Charlotte has a hard time keeping people there. Alot of people move to Charlotte, but will later move to atl because Charlotte wasn't big enough for them. I can easily see the most slept on city in the carolinas becoming the greatest city in the carolinas

[803metlife]

The State newspaper today has an article about the hot demand for housing in the city. I'm so glad I live in town. I'm exactly 3.9 miles from the capitol and less than that from Main and Taylor, near Forest Acres. Lots of people here are finally seeing that commuting is for the birds and that living in the city is where it's at. I have my eye on the land between Gervais and Blossom off of Huger street for my future home. People who are still moving out "to get away from it all" are behind the curve.

I agree, with high gas prices most people are trying to live and work in the same area. I think thats going to make the downtown and main st successful. Columbia definetly wont' have a high sprawl index. Columbias center core is experiencing significant growth, while other sc cities are experiencing surburan sprawl.

[sonofaque86]

Yeah, Columbia has alot of infill now. That's great everyone is moving back to the central city