Gaslight Village - East Grand Rapids

[twoshort]

That retail space forgone by Ada Bike? Perhaps there's an OB-GYN who could fill it.

I meant the sculpture.

[Veloise]

I meant the sculpture.

So did I.

(In days of yore, retailers would hang a representation of their wares out front of their store. Glasses: giant eyeglasses. Bicycles: bicycle. Fish market: gigantic wooden fish.)

HTH

[sparky05]

Just got out there for the first time. That is one... feminine... ship's prow...

[sparky05]

Some photos:

Forgive me for not paying close enough attention, but what's the deal with the pianos?

[joeDowntown]

I think the "What is it?" question about the sculpture is somewhat stupid, yet probably exactly what the artist wants. What is Le Grande Vitesse? When I look at it it looks like an interesting orange shape, not "forms of the river, the swiftness".

I personally think the sculpture is fantastic... whatever the hell it is.

Joe

Represents pianos sunk in Reeds Lake...

Forgive me for not paying close enough attention, but what's the deal with the pianos?

[Allison Slater]

Le Grande Vitesse actually reminds me of a spider. Some of the photos I've taken show such a distinction quite well.

As dor the 'sails', they don't quite look like sails, but they do capture the concept of being lifted away by wind, thanks to the middle piece. The sides look more like wings, so I guess it seems to portray more of a mythical airship powered by wings and sails. In fact, I know for certain I've seen drawings/paintings of such design, where the wings looked a lot like the sides of that sculpture.

[civitas]

From today's Press:

'Expert' rips Jade Pig

An expert in urban planning helping Ada Township keep its character intact didn't mince words about a neighboring town. Gianni Longo, architect and principal for New York City-based ACP Visioning and Planning Ltd., called the new Jade Pig Ventures project in East Grand Rapids' Gaslight Village "pretentious" and "most offensive" in comparison with the historic character of buildings across Wealthy Street. "One of (the sides) will not succeed," Longo said, "and my bet is that it will be the new." Jade Pig spokeswoman Sheri Cuccarese responded: "I guess everyone has their own opinions. We're very satisfied with the project."

[Allison Slater]

The overall design is nice, but there is one problem with that entire strip... it stands out. It's too clean and new looking.. and because of that alone, it seems fake. The colours need a little more texture and some weathering, so that it can blend in and seem more natural.

[JimInGR]

The overall design is nice, but there is one problem with that entire strip... it stands out. It's too clean and new looking.. and because of that alone, it seems fake. The colours need a little more texture and some weathering, so that it can blend in and seem more natural.

Overall, I like it, but I think the black windows were a bad choice.

[mejane]

It looks like a cheap movie set.

[Mark Miller]

While I have a lot of respect for Mr. Longo, I think that for an out of town expert to come in and rip a project such as this seems a bit inappropriate.

While these new buildings do not offer the same appearance as the existing buildings and in fact seem to significantly alter the feel of the small town quaintness of EGR, they are infinately better than the schlock that was there before. The street is better and gas light village is better because of these buildings.

They do seem too clean and pristine, because they are. They do not have the benefit of 80 years of patina yet. Will they look better as they age? I have no idea, but obviously time will tell.

There were a lot of things that could have been done better, as is the case with every new project, but overall this is not that bad. Urbanistically it does a pretty decent job.

To call it pretentious and offensive is not fair.

[AlexPKeaton]

If they got rid of the Dr. Suess signs the project would instantly be 50% less campy.

-nb

[civitas]

While I have a lot of respect for Mr. Longo, I think that for an out of town expert to come in and rip a project such as this seems a bit inappropriate.

While these new buildings do not offer the same appearance as the existing buildings and in fact seem to significantly alter the feel of the small town quaintness of EGR, they are infinately better than the schlock that was there before. The street is better and gas light village is better because of these buildings.

They do seem too clean and pristine, because they are. They do not have the benefit of 80 years of patina yet. Will they look better as they age? I have no idea, but obviously time will tell.

There were a lot of things that could have been done better, as is the case with every new project, but overall this is not that bad. Urbanistically it does a pretty decent job.

To call it pretentious and offensive is not fair.

This is the same 'expert' who thinks that a traffic circle will help a retail street and that detached single family homes are the best use for Gilmore's land on the river.

I wasn't involved in the charrette, so I may be misunderstanding something, but the preliminary vision for Ada doesn't look terribly creative. http://www.ada.mi.us/PrelimPlan.pdf

[Veloise]

If they got rid of the Dr. Suess signs the project would instantly be 50% less campy.

Got photo?

[don't make me come over there!]

[tamias6]

The overall design is nice, but there is one problem with that entire strip... it stands out. It's too clean and new looking.. and because of that alone, it seems fake. The colours need a little more texture and some weathering, so that it can blend in and seem more natural.

Just be glad it's not the "Village" facade on the 28th / Cascade Meijer store. Now that is fake.

[wolverine]

I think what Mr. Longo is getting at is the proportions and features of these buildings (or building with many facades) is awkward.

Let me list each of the problems I see with the architecture of this project.

1. Too much symmetry. In urbanism, symmetry created between buildings is usually seen among large civic structures, not commercial or residential buildings unless we are talking about modernism. But in this case we aren't. They are trying to represent commercial buildings, and we all know that historically, these types of buildings are all different, even if only slightly (sorry brick color doesn't count).

2. Brick color. Why the ugly colors? Why bother? Save money, buy red brick only with some facades a slightly different shade. Late 19th century buildings sometimes all had the same brick color because it was readily available in that location.

3. Cornices. Big or small, big or small. I see oversized and tiny. The ones on the pinkish and red brick "buildings" are fine. Vary them up a bit. That's what made individual buildings unique in their day. No it's not expensive to have different cornices for each facade.

4. Facade depth. Too flat! I want to see pilasters, an extra thick base, and a change in brick corsing. Yes, this adds cost, but it can be offset by fixing problems 2 & 3.

5. Arches. Those arches are out of scale. They are way too big for the facade they occupy. And why are each of those ornamental components of the arches so big? Shrink them down so they are a bit more in scale. I doubt money would be saved here, because I'm aware they are made of a false material.

6. Windows. Use lighter colors for the mullions, more depth, ditch those round windows.

Overall, the projet feels way too Disneyish. I find that sad, because people should not have work, live, and shop in these types of environments. We need to experience more REAL architecture. This doesn't mean we should throw away the idea of building like our past. We should continue, but start building more like this:

Student Rentals. Built in the late 90's

The fountains and sculptures are superb though.

[Mark Miller]

This is the same 'expert' who thinks that a traffic circle will help a retail street and that detached single family homes are the best use for Gilmore's land on the river.

I wasn't involved in the charrette, so I may be misunderstanding something, but the preliminary vision for Ada doesn't look terribly creative. http://www.ada.mi.us/PrelimPlan.pdf

I was not involved either, but I do not get the traffic circles in Ada. Seems like a bit of overkill.

[tamias6]

I have yet to see Gaslight Village in person since the construction. But, it's been pointed out that in real urbanism buildings differ from one another in varying degrees. I agree. However, I think in picking on Gaslight village for its Hollywood set look, we're forgetting the costs of building this place. Wouldn't the cost of construction go up in a most drastic way if each of the buildings did not have any kind of commonality with one another, such as the same windows, same floor heights, a facade that is one continuous plain instead of broken up, etc? I have seen photographs of this place and judging from that, I think Gaslight Village is a very good looking development and an asset to EGR despite being built in time when an accountant's pen and calculator call the shots.

[wolverine]

Wouldn't the cost of construction go up in a most drastic way if each of the buildings did not have any kind of commonality with one another, such as the same windows, same floor heights, a facade that is one continuous plain instead of broken up, etc?

In the suggestions I made above, the cost would not go up significantly. I suggested a standard brick color, simplified the decoration, and the windows on each facade are already different. Floor heights need not be considered in this project. Believe me, this does not have to come with a huge pricetag. It's purely poor design in this case.

[Mark Miller]

I would absolutely agree with Woverine's analysis. I would also agree that the tweaks that were suggested would not substantially add cost to the project. and most likely make it better.

The difference is that Wolverine's suggestions are constructive, while Longo's critique, saying that the project is pretentious and offensive, is of little value, except that of shock and awe. It is entirely possible that the quotes were taken out of context to begin with.

Detail would have made this much more credible, including proper arches, cornices, windows, etc., but all and all, I think that even though key detailing was missed here, the project at least has created an urban streetscape and is a far better example of what we should be doing than much of what has been recently constructed.

The kind of analysis that Wolverine provided is what needs to be done on all of these projects and hopefully as more urbanism gets built, the detailing will come along.

[CK1]

I do have to say that I like the new development. For one, it is a lot better than what USED to be there. The buildings have a quality look to them, the streets are pedestrian friendly, and there is both retail and office use throughout the complex. Also, with the new six+ story condos going up on the backside of this development, having just two stories on Wealthy street will prevent the "canyon" effect that would have happened if the condo's had been placed right up on Wealthy.

I was in the second level offices back by the sculpture yesterday, and I was really, really impressed with the finishes and overall "solid" feel to the building.

East GR is a landlocked city, and the only way to add density without become a dense city (which I would assume EGR has absolutely no desire to ever become) is to allow development like this. Question is, how long until surrounding streets begin to get redeveloped as well? I could see many of the streets leading to and from Wealthy become greatly improved if the homes that are there are torn down and brownstones or similar townhouses are built. And for those of you that hate to see older homes torn down for new development - walk through the homes near gaslight. I have been through over half-dozen within a block or two of gaslight, and none are really worth more than land value (not the greatest of shape) - paint and a little elbow-grease will do the job on them.

[GR8scott]

I have not seen this yet but when are they going to start on the codos? and are they still going with the 9, 6, and 4 stories or has it changed again?

also what is that vision plan for Ada and whats going in there?

[suydam]

East GR is a landlocked city, and the only way to add density without become a dense city (which I would assume EGR has absolutely no desire to ever become) is to allow development like this. Question is, how long until surrounding streets begin to get redeveloped as well? I could see many of the streets leading to and from Wealthy become greatly improved if the homes that are there are torn down and brownstones or similar townhouses are built. And for those of you that hate to see older homes torn down for new development - walk through the homes near gaslight. I have been through over half-dozen within a block or two of gaslight, and none are really worth more than land value (not the greatest of shape) - paint and a little elbow-grease will do the job on them.

Funny you should mention brownstones.

There's already one going in on Ross Ct. right now:

http://public.grar.com/public/pubrecn.mac/start?MLS=G567371

As for how well the new development fits, as a resident I can say that it fits a heckuva lot better than a dirt lot, a dying department store or (my biggest fear) a stripmall like the one sitting just 100 yards down the street from the new development.

Sure, they could have improved a few things (like the oft-maligned Dr. Seuss signs), but c'mon... the rest of the burbs, as far as the eye can see in every direction are getting strip malls, pedestrian-hostile Waterfall Shoppes, fake-city-centers (Celebration "Village") and Wal-Mart. I'd say EGR could do much worse than they did.

[tamias6]

Maybe its because Chicago is one of my favorite cities. But I think attached homes like what's pictured on this webpage would look good on the immediate blocks surrounding Gaslight Village.

Chicago's Gold Coast

Imagine these homes two stories high on rised basements. That would look perfect.

[EGR-ARCHI]

I have not seen this yet but when are they going to start on the codos? and are they still going with the 9, 6, and 4 stories or has it changed again?

also what is that vision plan for Ada and whats going in there?

I have seen this new brown stone and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Its street presence is imposing as it addresses the street with a sunken drive and a garage. It is stark and out of scale with its adjacent neighbors. Chicago and New York have the density to support and justify Row houses. EGR does not and considering how soft the housing market and construction market is right now it would be foolish to try and build them in EGR, regardless of whether you approve of the quality of the houses near Gaslight. Those houses, many of which are in good shape (and have proud owners) help to diversify the EGR community.