Gaslight Village - East Grand Rapids

[joeDowntown]

I disagree. I lived in EGR 3.5 years ago. Bought it for $169K, sold it for 189K. It sold about a year ago for $299k and the only thing the new owners did was put in a concrete pad (next to the single stall garage).

Although if you don't mind a 1200 sq ft. house with no lot and a single stall garage, maybe there are plenty of quality houses under $270k.

Joe

I bought a house in EGR 2 years ago.

$270k was not a rundown fixer-upper then, and it's not now either.

Prices have held as steady there as anywhere else.

I should note, that 60% (yes, 60%) of the homes in EGR are valued at $200k and under. That's been the case for quite some time.

It's likely that then when you looked there just wasn't anything for sale in your range.

[BigPlayJ]

Joe is right. Take a look on GRAR at a 3br 1+ bath home in the City of Grand Rapids and do a similar search for EGR. You will find a price difference of $50K to $70K.

IMO, the draw of EGR is the school system. If you don't have kids, you are probably better off buying a house in the Marywood area and walking or biking to EGR to enjoy all its amenities.

[concretepoem]

Joe is right. Take a look on GRAR at a 3br 1+ bath home in the City of Grand Rapids and do a similar search for EGR. You will find a price difference of $50K to $70K.

IMO, the draw of EGR is the school system. If you don't have kids, you are probably better off buying a house in the Marywood area and walking or biking to EGR to enjoy all its amenities.

The academics and athletics of the EHR schools are a huge draw.

But so it the low crime rate, good Parks and Recreation Dep't offerings, a great new public library, streets and sidewalks that are plowed in the winter, a government responsive to the tax payers, code enforcement, the beauty of the Lake front park and Hodenpyle Woods.

All of which you pay more for, both in initial cost and annual property taxes.

But there's some consolation in the reduced "miles per household"

The Marywood area is one of the real gems of GR, whether you have kids or not. Historically, lots of families who owned there sent their kids to Catholic Central.

I like Marywood because it's well served by the Rapid. There have been some really nice buys in Marywood recently. $180 will get you a lot for your money in Marywood, IMO.

As for EGR, the shrewd buy is something in what the realtors call the Golden Triangle. Just outside EGR city limits, in GR Township, but within the EGR school district. While some of GR's grandest homes are in this area, there are also some lower priced properties as well.

[concretepoem]

Although if you don't mind a 1200 sq ft. house with no lot and a single stall garage, maybe there are plenty of quality houses under $270k.

You can get twice the house you describe. I know of a 2400 sq ft 3/2+ with a 2 stall garage on 200x180 lot that sold last summer for just under $270.

Did it need work? You just have to realize that the majority of homes are older, and a lot of what's for sale instantly shows the decade of the last kitchen and bath remods...60s, 70s, 80s...and that's typical of an EGR. The empty nesters trying to sell now think their 80s era kitchens and baths are great, and aren't always willing admit tastes change with the times.

It's a rare EGR house (for sale) that's got 'Pottery Barn' decor.

[GRDadof3]

The academics and athletics of the EHR schools are a huge draw.

But so it the low crime rate, good Parks and Recreation Dep't offerings, a great new public library, streets and sidewalks that are plowed in the winter, a government responsive to the tax payers, code enforcement, the beauty of the Lake front park and Hodenpyle Woods.

All of which you pay more for, both in initial cost and annual property taxes.

But there's some consolation in the reduced "miles per household"

The Marywood area is one of the real gems of GR, whether you have kids or not. Historically, lots of families who owned there sent their kids to Catholic Central.

I like Marywood because it's well served by the Rapid. There have been some really nice buys in Marywood recently. $180 will get you a lot for your money in Marywood, IMO.

As for EGR, the shrewd buy is something in what the realtors call the Golden Triangle. Just outside EGR city limits, in GR Township, but within the EGR school district. While some of GR's grandest homes are in this area, there are also some lower priced properties as well.

I love the Marywood area. How families can afford to send their kids to Catholic Schools is beyond me though.

The golden triangle is a great spot, between Robinson (N), Cascade (S), East Beltline (E):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...061111&om=1

As you mentioned, low GR twp taxes around 26 mills, compared to 40 something in EGR, and EGR schools. Close to Reeds Lake trail and Manhatten Recreation area too. Problem is that homes hardly ever come on the market in that area, and when they do they back right up the Beltline or are right out on Cascade Rd.

[concretepoem]

I love the Marywood area. How families can afford to send their kids to Catholic Schools is beyond me though.

The golden triangle is a great spot, between Robinson (N), Cascade (S), East Beltline (E):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...061111&om=1

As you mentioned, low GR twp taxes around 26 mills, compared to 40 something in EGR, and EGR schools. Close to Reeds Lake trail and Manhatten Recreation area too. Problem is that homes hardly ever come on the market in that area, and when they do they back right up the Beltline or are right out on Cascade Rd.

There a second, lesser known Golden Triangle, also EGR schools but GR Twnsp. It starts right next door (to the east) of Aquinas on Robinson Road, along the north side of Robinson across from Brookby, or whatever Sam's estate is called, all the way down to Cascade Rd. It encompasses all the homes on Lakeside and Maryland between Fulton and Robinson, plus Mercer and Mayflower Church.

[quoteme3]

You would think...but EGR Hgh is not 2000 students, it's more like 800, and the whole hanging out at the malt shop vision is just a fantasy of what teenagers do after school these days. They're at home, chatting with each other via MySpace.

The parents are online, too... you've got to wonder what percentage of bricks and morter retail trade has been lost to online/catalog shopping. EGR used to support two nice 'preppy' clothiers, the Bagpiper and the Klothes Kloset, but that was in the days before J Crew and Lands End.

The world's changed. There's just less interest in retail, unless it's discount.

I remember when Eberhards burned.... it was like 'whoilly chit, now we gotta go all the way to 28th and kzoo for groceries'.

Now EGR peeps can go in any direction to get anything.

I think downtown retail suffers from like problems.

[GR8-town]

I love the Marywood area. How families can afford to send their kids to Catholic Schools is beyond me though.

The golden triangle is a great spot, between Robinson (N), Cascade (S), East Beltline (E):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...061111&om=1

As you mentioned, low GR twp taxes around 26 mills, compared to 40 something in EGR, and EGR schools. Close to Reeds Lake trail and Manhatten Recreation area too. Problem is that homes hardly ever come on the market in that area, and when they do they back right up the Beltline or are right out on Cascade Rd.

EGR millage rate is 30 mills GR twp / EGR city 44 mills

http://www.grhomebroker.com/millage-rates.htm

[GRDadof3]

I read yesterday that the Derby was going back to the drawing board because it's not selling well. I can't find the article though.

[mgreven]

I read yesterday that the Derby was going back to the drawing board because it's not selling well. I can't find the article though.

Here ya go...

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/20...o+The+Races.htm

I was surprised, I thought they were going to go like crazy based on the reservations.

I wonder if people who are interested are having a hard time selling their existing homes.

Too bad for Jade Pig, weren't the condo sales supposed to somewhat subsidize the "extras" they put into the retail portion?

(Gotta pay for a large butterfly/sail somehow)

[GRDadof3]

Here ya go...

http://www.grbj.com/GRBJ/ArticleArchive/20...o+The+Races.htm

I was surprised, I thought they were going to go like crazy based on the reservations.

I wonder if people who are interested are having a hard time selling their existing homes.

Too bad for Jade Pig, weren't the condo sales supposed to somewhat subsidize the "extras" they put into the retail portion?

(Gotta pay for a large butterfly/sail somehow)

Thanks mg! That's why I couldn't find the article, there wasn't one (buried in StreetTalk).

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Perhaps $400+/square foot was a bit unrealistic for a high rise in EGR.

[EGR-ARCHI]

Thanks mg! That's why I couldn't find the article, there wasn't one (buried in StreetTalk).

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Perhaps $400+/square foot was a bit unrealistic for a high rise in EGR.

Opps, well if they make any substantial changes they will have to present it to the city again. I wonder what kind of changes they are looking at?

[concretepoem]

wonder if people who are interested are having a hard time selling their existing homes.

You have to think that a large share of the Derby's target are EGR empty nesters who'd like to move out of their half million dollar 4bed/3bath homes but can't find any takers. The MLS shows lots of inventory in that price range right now.

[Grandrapidsne]

I think that this will mean the retail aspect of this project will have a harder time selling without the new residents. I really hope the fight over the height of the buildings and all the debate were not for nothing.

[ted124b]

Article from GR Press today talking about the proposed condos, and the revised plans Jade Pig is preparing. I really hope this project can get off the ground. The Derby was supposed to be one of many condos that were to fill the Jacobsons and Ramona Medical Plaza that were demolished. If the Derby can't even get off the ground 2 years later, I worry about the entire project moving along, because a huge fenced off swamp sits in the middle of E. Grand Rapids now 2 years later.

http://www.mlive.com/business/grpress/inde....xml&coll=6

[GRDadof3]

Article from GR Press today talking about the proposed condos, and the revised plans Jade Pig is preparing. I really hope this project can get off the ground. The Derby was supposed to be one of many condos that were to fill the Jacobsons and Ramona Medical Plaza that were demolished. If the Derby can't even get off the ground 2 years later, I worry about the entire project moving along, because a huge fenced off swamp sits in the middle of E. Grand Rapids now 2 years later.

http://www.mlive.com/business/grpress/inde....xml&coll=6

It sounds like they've changed design firms, and have now gone with Built Form Architecture (the same firm doing the Fulton&Division project):

http://builtformarchitecture.com/builtform.html

I'm not crazy about their work personally. I wonder if they are switching to a more modern style vs. the original classical design?

[GRguy]

I am sure a big concrete, modernist box would go over well with the EGR residents

[DwntwnGeo]

I read yesterday that the Derby was going back to the drawing board because it's not selling well. I can't find the article though.

Read this article on Mlive this morning:

"Jade Pig Ventures on Tuesday unveiled retooled plans for its Gaslight Village condominiums. While luxury materials remain, The Derby will have "simpler, clean lines" and a smaller bottom line for consumers.

When it went to market nearly two years ago, the majority of the units were priced above $700,000, Jade Pig Ventures President Scott Wierda said.

Real estate brokers associated with the project suggested "a substantial portion be between that $400,000 to $600,000 range," Wierda told the East Grand Rapids Planning Commission."

I wonder what some of the changes are going to be? Did anyone happen to be at the EGR meeting last night? Does anyone have plans they can share with the site?

The complete article can be read on Mlive here: East Grand Rapids condo plans retooled

[DwntwnGeo]

Some additional quotes about the new design:

"Cost-trimming came by removing underground parking and replacing it with first-floor parking and some parking in the existing 425-space parking ramp.

Elevators now will serve condos via hallways, not private entrances, and units will be smaller, 1,700 square feet, down from 2,000 square feet."

On the original plan, what was being done with the first floor? Are we replacing possible businesses with a parking lot (ie:Icon on Bond)?

"The orientation of the building rotates from a straightforward north-south axis, now swinging easterly on a diagonal. That exposes the western side of the building more. It was the stripped-down architecture on the west exterior that drew the most attention from commissioners.

"The west side looks a tad institutional to me. I mean, correctional," Commissioner Marnie Masterson said."

[GR_Urbanist]

And these guys thought that some EGR residents flipped out when they saw the original design.

If this thing looks as bad as it sounds, they are in for a mass riot.

[suydam]

I wasn't at the meeting, but the original plan was for first floor retail on this building, yes.

Seeing as the retail project they've already built isn't full, and the largest unit is about to be occupied by a Physical Therapist's office (was planned for retail) I'd say they're probably happy not to add another 4 or 5 retail bays right now. The only really new store in there is Hot Mama which cut a bay in half and left an empty half-bay next door. To me their retail plan seems to be really struggling.

And these guys thought that some EGR residents flipped out when they saw the original design.

If this thing looks as bad as it sounds, they are in for a mass riot.

It'll get changed or it won't get approved.

They just had a set of row houses go through that same process, the plans presented met with a bunch of objections about some "cheap looking" siding on the back of them and the final plan that got approved had no more siding and all brick construction.

I expect something similar here (or it's not as bad as it's being portrayed).

Either way, I'm sure the end product will be nice. I mean heck, they're still selling for $400k-$600k...that's not exactly chump change.

[concretepoem]

... they're still selling for $400k-$600k...that's not exactly chump change...

I seriously doubt that even if this project does go forward that many units will sell even at these new, lower price points. The market dynamics just aren't there right now, if they ever were. Look at grar.com and see how many large EGR and Ada/Cascade family homes are sitting unsold --for some cases for more than a year now--in that price range. The 55+, recent empty-nester, soon-to-be snow-bird market that was Jade Pig's target just can't shed the 4000 sq ft house right now and move into a half million dollar condo that's only 1700 sq ft, especially one that's still subject to EGR property taxes.

[suydam]

I seriously doubt that even if this project does go forward that many units will sell even at these new, lower price points. The market dynamics just aren't there right now, if they ever were. Look at grar.com and see how many large EGR and Ada/Cascade family homes are sitting unsold --for some cases for more than a year now--in that price range. The 55+, recent empty-nester, soon-to-be snow-bird market that was Jade Pig's target just can't shed the 4000 sq ft house right now and move into a half million dollar condo that's only 1700 sq ft, especially one that's still subject to EGR property taxes.

I agree with you. Adding 25+ homes to the EGR market in that price range is going to flood it even more.

How does the property tax thing work when you're in a condo? I was under the impression that one of the chief attractions to condo living (in general, anywhere) was a dramatic decrease in your property tax.

Given that EGR's millage rate is high (but certainly not unprecedented if you look at other small cities/villages) I'd guess a major reduction in taxes would be a major selling point. Granted, I'm not in that market (unless they make condos for families with multiple infants/toddlers), but I'd love to know the answer none-the-less.

Either way, selling them is going to be a real challenge. I wouldn't be surprised to see something approved and construction take another 2 years to get started (or longer). With their retail stuff built, the Jacobsen's lot is no longer the eyesore it was before. Adding residential to the mix would certainly help local retailers, that's for sure.

[GRDadof3]

I agree with you. Adding 25+ homes to the EGR market in that price range is going to flood it even more.

How does the property tax thing work when you're in a condo? I was under the impression that one of the chief attractions to condo living (in general, anywhere) was a dramatic decrease in your property tax.

Given that EGR's millage rate is high (but certainly not unprecedented if you look at other small cities/villages) I'd guess a major reduction in taxes would be a major selling point. Granted, I'm not in that market (unless they make condos for families with multiple infants/toddlers), but I'd love to know the answer none-the-less.

Either way, selling them is going to be a real challenge. I wouldn't be surprised to see something approved and construction take another 2 years to get started (or longer). With their retail stuff built, the Jacobsen's lot is no longer the eyesore it was before. Adding residential to the mix would certainly help local retailers, that's for sure.

Multi-family condos are assessed the same way that other properties are assessed, based on the estimated property value. It's tough when there aren't a lot of comparables for the city to go by, so they generally estimate high (at least in other cities). In addition, you have larger association fees than standard condos.

The only way this building will be a success is if they can draw in enough people who don't live in EGR currently. Either that or they get enough people who can afford to carry two properties for a while.

[grcitydog]

I really hate to say this, but it seems that the only viable retail these days seem to be big boxes and strip malls at the edge of sprawl. I would really like to see EGR and other urban retail environments succeed, but retail needs shoppers in order to work and right now most of the shoppers seem to like the aforementioned areas. We can all do our part when an urban retail store opens, to go there and keep going there (assuming it is a quality establishment).