CONSTRUCTION THREAD: ONE Greenville (Main @ Washington)

[goodbye]

The city did indeed play up both Gateway and the Firestone site with no or failed results. But you seem to be missing a few.....the city demolished the row of buildings in West End that is now Riverplace. The city demolished the old apartments that are now McBee Station. The city demolished the car bridge for what is Liberty Bridge. The city demolished an old warehouse site for what is now Fluor Field and the Fieldhouse. The city demolished the park and old fire station for what is now the new Main at Broad development.On and on. Seems the numbers speak positive FOR the mayor and the cities history of bringing projects to fruition. Why would you assume the mayor is bluffing with so many wins on his side?

I appreciate your optimistic outlook, including the many recent projects that have been successful. I am no stranger to witnessing these exciting events happen. My skepticism is intended to provide a balanced perspective with the understanding that there have also been multiple development "losses" in downtown recently. We have yet to see that major commercial project come to fruition, although the initial phase(s) of RiverPlace do look great. The proposed scope of Washington Square seems a bit out of touch with reality in this economy until we see persuasive evidence supporting the concept that such a new project will actually be built in our downtown any time soon.

My comment about Mr. White potentially "bluffing" was based on the fact that it is not uncommon for a mayor (or any politician) to use promising words as an attempt to reassure citizens that everything will be fine. This does not mean I believe he is lying, but he may not know as much about the future of this project as we are hoping based on an excerpt from his interview with WYFF. It is a potential reality which we must admit and be prepared to accept or greater disappointment will ensue.

[swu_BA_student]

Let's go Knox, what's the info.

[gman430]

Let's go Knox, what's the info.

They are definitely keeping tight lips on it. I don't even know what is going on with the project anymore. Haven't heard anything in a few months now. Last thing I remember is that the city and TIC Properties got several different architectural firms to design a mixed use project for the site. I'm not sure who the architectural firms were, what those designs looked like, or if they picked a winner.

[gvegascple]

I had a chance to look down on this site today. There is not much grading, a very large sunken depression filled with water and it appears as though anything that has been put over the dirt is for drainage. No park, so it appears as though we are going to have the fence until this materializes.

[gman430]

4240 Architecture Inc. and Civitas Inc. are the architecture firms that have been chosen to design the Washington Square project and Piazza Bergamo renovated public area. Development agreement is slated to be approved by the City of Greenville on March 22nd with master plan completion on or by August 15th. Things are moving forward folks.

Edited March 21, 2010 by citylife

[apaladin]

4240 Architecture Inc. and Civitas Inc. are the architecture firms that have been chosen to design the Washington Square project and Piazza Bergamo renovated public area. Development agreement is slated to be approved by the City of Greenville on March 22nd with master plan completion on or by August 15th. Things are moving forward folks.

Any word today? Does this mean we're at least a year away from any construction? Wouldn't you think some kind of anouncement would be made soon, if nothing else to appease area business owners? Also if constructon is a year away, why wouldn't they do the park?

[gman430]

I found out earlier today from my Greenville News business writer contact that construction could start on the project in a few months which is why the park has been cancelled.

[benjamesriddle]

YES YES YES! Wait, have they started the design submission process yet? Are there already preliminary sketches? 4240 is a big deal - they have alot of good names in their portfolio (not to mention several Resorts at Walt Disney World)

[gman430]

YES YES YES! Wait, have they started the design submission process yet? Are there already preliminary sketches? 4240 is a big deal - they have alot of good names in their portfolio (not to mention several Resorts at Walt Disney World)

They're just getting started on the design process I believe. You can read the city document here: http://www.greenvillesc.gov/CouncilAgendas/minutes/2010/MARCH/Formal/3-22-2010/Item15a.pdf

[benjamesriddle]

Thanks for the link and the info. The new city website really does make finding these things a lot easier!

From the Document :

"The completion of the master plan will be through an open and transparent process that will engage the city, the community, and the stakeholders to define the program and establish the general character of the space"

This sounds promising, and is exactly as it should be.

Edited March 23, 2010 by furman94

[Greenville]

I found out earlier today from my Greenville News business writer contact that construction could start on the project in a few months which is why the park has been cancelled.

Excellent news. They are obviously in serious talks with several key tenants for this to be a possibility. With the parties on board with this project (including the city), I am confident this will be a dynamic development like we've never seen.

[goodbye]

I wonder if this news regards only the initial planning, or if there are potential tenants already waiting in the wings. A high density urban mixed-use village center would be incredible in that location with the right mixture of businesses, residential space, and entertainment options.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Skyliner

[GvilleSC]

If they've only recently chosen a firm to design it, then any commencement of construction this year would indicate a fast-track project timeline (meaning that they would build it as fast as it's drawn). Interesting. I wonder how much truth is to these rumors? Obviously, I hope it's true!

[gvegascple]

If they've only recently chosen a firm to design it, then any commencement of construction this year would indicate a fast-track project timeline (meaning that they would build it as fast as it's drawn). Interesting. I wonder how much truth is to these rumors? Obviously, I hope it's true!

From the documents linked to earlier, the only deliverable due "on or about" August 15th is a master "Plan" with the following artifacts:-Analytical diagrams

-Plan drawings

-Perspective renderings that express the "character" of the public environment of the properties

This is a far cry from any actual building/site design, funding, tennant announcement and ground breaking. I fear this, while being exactly what we should be doing, could drag on for a year or two or three or worse.

We cant we do all of this analysis and planning while also creating a "central park" (even if it was just a field with some benches and a meandering path) in the meantime?

Oh well, keeping my fingers crossed here

[gs3]

I heard something interesting......my source on this only has a 50/50 accuracy rate, so it could be true or not. Looking to see if anyone can verify.

From what I've been told, Erwin Penland will sign onto this project for their corporate headquarters. It sort of made sense when I was told....we all know EP needs additional space and has been looking for additional space....it would explain why the mayor seems so confident about this project and it would also explain why a temporary park is not being put there. Can anyone positively verify or dismiss this info?

[GvilleSC]

I heard something interesting......my source on this only has a 50/50 accuracy rate, so it could be true or not. Looking to see if anyone can verify.

From what I've been told, Erwin Penland will sign onto this project for their corporate headquarters. It sort of made sense when I was told....we all know EP needs additional space and has been looking for additional space....it would explain why the mayor seems so confident about this project and it would also explain why a temporary park is not being put there. Can anyone positively verify or dismiss this info?

That IS interesting! I agree that it seems to make sense given their current broken-up office space on Broad Street, and growth. Would Erwin-Penland be able to lease enough space to advance the office portion of the project?

*fingers crossed*

[DowntownCityGirl]

I heard something interesting......my source on this only has a 50/50 accuracy rate, so it could be true or not. Looking to see if anyone can verify.

From what I've been told, Erwin Penland will sign onto this project for their corporate headquarters. It sort of made sense when I was told....we all know EP needs additional space and has been looking for additional space....it would explain why the mayor seems so confident about this project and it would also explain why a temporary park is not being put there. Can anyone positively verify or dismiss this info?

if your source recommends a stock purchase or tells you to back a certain horse...decline. It's not Erwin Penland. Definitely not. (and for the record, I'm still not convinced there even IS a tenant who has signed on or is about to sign on to this project.)

Sorry to burst that balloon, though.

[goodbye]

I must agree, unfortunately. The City is finally facing serious financial trouble as many other cities have been for at least a year now. They were already discussing the unwanted, but unavoidable necessity to lay off at least some employees prior to the public announcement about Mr. Bourey's resignation. With such financial difficulty in mind, I would not be surprised to learn that plans and funding for a new temporary park are not currently a high priority on the City's agenda.

[gs3]

if your source recommends a stock purchase or tells you to back a certain horse...decline. It's not Erwin Penland. Definitely not. (and for the record, I'm still not convinced there even IS a tenant who has signed on or is about to sign on to this project.)

Sorry to burst that balloon, though.

I didn't have a balloon to be burst. I was just passing on a rumor that like I said, only had a 50/50 percent chance of being accurate. Thanks for clarifying. Your info always seems very accurate, unlike others......

Edited April 21, 2010 by gsupstate

[gman430]

I must agree, unfortunately. The City is finally facing serious financial trouble as many other cities have been for at least a year now. They were already discussing the unwanted, but unavoidable necessity to lay off at least some employees prior to the public announcement about Mr. Bourey's resignation. With such financial difficulty in mind, I would not be surprised to learn that plans and funding for a new temporary park are not currently a high priority on the City's agenda.

I disagree. Financial difficulties with the city is NOT why the temporary park was cancelled. It was cancelled because there is a possibility the project could start construction over the next several months. TIC Properties is a REIT development firm and doesn't need bank financing to build their project. They have strong capital backing and the funds already secured to build what they please on site. All they need is tenants. The Piazza Bergamo improvement project which would be funded by the city is included in the 2010-2015 capital improvement projects budget list with funds secured. I don't know what if any tenants TIC Properties has secured for Washington Square at this time.

Edited April 21, 2010 by citylife

[goodbye]

We weren't discussing the Piazza Bergamo redevelopment. All rumors regarding TIC "moving ahead" with plans for the site have yet to be proven accurate, although I have no doubt they may be creating attractive plans to help market the site to potential investors. This would be a positive sign, but not confirmation that it will actually be built any time soon.

[gman430]

We weren't discussing the Piazza Bergamo redevelopment. All rumors regarding TIC "moving ahead" with plans for the site have yet to be proven accurate, although I have no doubt they may be creating attractive plans to help market the site to potential investors. This would be a positive sign, but not confirmation that it will actually be built any time soon.

http://www.greenvill...010/Item15a.pdf Still can't figure out why there are so many people who are being negative over this project and thinking it won't get built anytime soon. Call me crazy, but I like to look at the positive instead. This isn't the Peacock or Pinnacle developers we're talking about here luckily.

Edited April 21, 2010 by citylife

[Greenville]

http://www.greenvill...010/Item15a.pdf Still can't figure out why there are so many people who are being negative over this project and thinking it won't get built anytime soon. Call me crazy, but I like to look at the positive instead. This isn't the Peacock or Pinnacle developers we're talking about here luckily.

Because some people are just negative in general, or have been watching too much national news. They hear so many dramatic "news" stories about how awful the economy is that they forget that most people still have jobs, and are still spending money as usual. The recession obviously impacts some downtown developments, but not all (e.g., Courtyard at Main and Broad, Nantucket Seafood Grill, Custom House, etc.). Based on the financing that is already in place for Washington Square, it is not unlikely that we could see some activity on the site soon.

[DowntownCityGirl]

I didn't have a balloon to be burst. I was just passing on a rumor that like I said, only had a 50/50 percent chance of being accurate. Thanks for clarifying. Your info always seems very accurate, unlike others......

Thanks for the thumbs up, gspupstate. I guess I just don't say anything unless I'm sure about it!

And to anyone who thinks questioning this (or any) project is negative, I disagree. We just seem to have a lot of people in this town who think that SAYING something is going to happen will magically make it true. And of course, it doesn't. I think most people appreciate a straightforward and honest answer, even if it's not the news they're hoping to hear.

Don't misunderstand: I totally appreciate the need to create excitement about potential projects in order to nail down investors and tenants, but it's just offensive the things some developers & others expect us to believe (i.e., Peacock, Pinnacle, now W&M...). Hard to blame anyone for being cautious about believing what they hear.

[Greenville]

Thanks for the thumbs up, gspupstate. I guess I just don't say anything unless I'm sure about it!

And to anyone who thinks questioning this (or any) project is negative, I disagree. We just seem to have a lot of people in this town who think that SAYING something is going to happen will magically make it true. And of course, it doesn't. I think most people appreciate a straightforward and honest answer, even if it's not the news they're hoping to hear.

Don't misunderstand: I totally appreciate the need to create excitement about potential projects in order to nail down investors and tenants, but it's just offensive the things some developers & others expect us to believe (i.e., Peacock, Pinnacle, now W&M...). Hard to blame anyone for being cautious about believing what they hear.

Questioning a project isn't negative, but when people doubt every positive rumor simply because they don't think it is true - well, that's negative. BTW, I wasn't singling you out in my last post. I enjoy your posts and appreciate your desire for posting accurate information.

I also don't think you should lump Main at Washington in the same category as Pinnacle and Peacock. Apples and oranges!