Charlotte Crane Count

[CLT Development]

Good Afternoon! We can get Charlotte added to a National Crane Count list. I want to crowd-fund this task since we don't all get around the entire city... I'll edit as we come up with places with cranes.

SouthPark 
• Charcoal Apartments

NoDa
• Avery Hall 1
• Avery Hall 2
• Centro NoDa
• Prose NoDa

Optimist Park 
• Flournoy 
• I feel like I'm missing two that I saw from the train today.

North End
• Building on Wadsworth

Uptown
• Moxy
• Legacy Union 4

Sedgefield
• Sedgefield Parcel D

Ballantyne – 
• Ballantyne Reimagined #1
• Ballantyne Reimagined #2

Dilworth
• Radius Dilworth
• The Campbell
• The Pearl #1
• The Pearl #2
• 1701 East Blvd

South End
• 2161 Hawkins #1
• 2161 Hawkins #2
• Greystar
• 110 East
• Aspen Heights

Madison Park
• Woodlawn and Park Apartments

LoSo 
• Embry Apartments
• Embry Apartments #2
• Mill Creek #1
• Mill Creek #2
• Apartments Beside Lidl #1
• Apartments Beside Lidl #2

Plaza Midwood
• Commonwealth 1
• Commonwealth 2?

Myers Park 
• Myers Park United Methodist Church (Multi-Purpose Building)

FreeMoreWest
• Apartment project who's name I don't remember.

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Edited October 31, 2023 by CLT Development

[ArchiCLT]

+1: Myers Park United Methodist Church (Multi-Purpose Building)

[J-Rob]

1 hour ago, CLT Development said:

Uptown
• Moxy
• Legacy Union 4

Ballantyne – 
• Ballantyne Reimagined #1
• Ballantyne Reimagined #2

Dilworth
• Radius Dilworth
• The Campbell
• The Pearl #1
• The Pearl #2

LOL - Dilworth has twice as many as Uptown.  I wouldn't have predicted that 5 or 6 years ago.

[CLT Development]

13 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

LOL - Dilworth has twice as many as Uptown.  I wouldn't have predicted that 5 or 6 years ago.

And that won't be changing, Dilworth should get three more cranes in the next 12 months *fingers crossed* at Southern Land, H&H and Atrium Bed Tower. Uptown should be poised to get quite a few as well soon though. Vela just got permits, Graham Street Apartments are close, I would think Hall House replacement gets a crane, Hotel Intercontinental should start early next year, plus 2-3 cranes to finish up at Legacy Union by the first of next year. I will say I've been surprised at the number of "crane-less" multifamily buildings. Neither apartment building at Camp North End has a crane, nor does the building going up on the edge of Uptown on North Tryon.

Edited October 30, 2023 by CLT Development

[RANYC]

20 minutes ago, CLT Development said:

And that won't be changing, Dilworth should get three more cranes in the next 12 months *fingers crossed* at Southern Land, H&H and Atrium Bed Tower. Uptown should be poised to get quite a few as well soon though. Vela just got permits, Graham Street Apartments are close, I would think Hall House replacement gets a crane, Hotel Intercontinental should start early next year, plus 2-3 cranes to finish up at Legacy Union by the first of next year. I will say I've been surprised at the number of "crane-less" multifamily buildings. Neither apartment building at Camp North End has a crane, nor does the building going up on the edge of Uptown on North Tryon.

Wow Vela is still a go?  Good news.  Anything along Poplar, please, anything?

Edited October 30, 2023 by RANYC

[MarcoPolo]

Thanks CLT Development, great idea to crowdsource this!  

Hi all, it's been a minute since I was last here.   But, I'm back for a bit between projects.  

I was chatting with CLT last week.   Over a beer I explained how curious I was as to why Charlotte had not appeared on the latest Crane Index,  tabulated by a reputable North American project/construction and management consulting firm, that I have some contacts at.  They compile a yearly Crane Index for North America, counting the number of cranes per major City.  Charlotte has not been on their list, something that should be corrected, even if we had an unimpressive crane count, because after all...we are a major city in North America, right?   Other peer cities such as Portland are included...so I decided to remedy the oversight.  However, the real reason I want to do this is because I'm fairly certain that our impressive collection of cranes may just place the Queen City in the upper ranks of the list and raise some eyebrows across the Country for those geeky enough to find such data exciting.  

CLT, his lovely wife, well mannered dog, and I, spit balled at least 25 to 30 tower cranes across the metro area.  If accurate, this easily places Charlotte in the top 5, possibly number 4 after Toronto, Seattle, LA , and ahead of Denver, the current number 4 market.  Hell, if we can find 48, we'll be at number 3.  For those interested, Toronto had 238 as of April this year, followed by Seattle at 51, LA at 47 and Denver with 36.   List the number of cranes to the left of the project name on CLT's list.  If you know of other projects not on the list please add them.   If you go across County lines please make reference to this.

Get out-and-about and find me some cranes!    To count toward the tally, the crane must be a fixed, tower crane, mounted on site onto a slab, or attached to the building with a boom that can turn up to 360 degrees.   You know the kind.   Do not include mobile cranes...no matter how big.   I don't think we have any of those anyway?   If you know that a crane is about to come down, don't count it, but it is fair to count a crane ready to rise, with base installed, such as what's about to happen at Queensbridge.  I can negotiate the details with my contacts.  

Have fun!

[Norm2]

Do you know why Charlotte was overlooked?

[Crucial_Infra]

19 minutes ago, norm21499 said:

Do you know why Charlotte was overlooked?

They thought: “Why would a smallish coastal city in South Carolina have a lot of cranes?”

[Crucial_Infra]

In all seriousness, if this is the RLB Crane index we’re talking about, there are many cities that are excluded. 

[MarcoPolo]

Let me rephrase "overlooked".   It's not that they don't know about Charlotte.  Their team of data collectors, typically assess a market based on "buzz",  industry press, and historic precedent as regards construction booms.  Using these as "rules of thumb" it is not completely unbelievable that Charlotte would be overlooked.  We are not recognized in the industry, from the perspective of recent history lenses, as a "boom town".    Our growth is less "flashy".  

With just a bit more research they most likely would have spotted the recent trends that have ignited what would be generally considered a significant boom here.   We will be correcting this oversight soon enough.  Get me those crane counts!

[nicholas]

3 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

In all seriousness, if this is the RLB Crane index we’re talking about, there are many cities that are excluded. 

Yeah, I would have to imagine Austin and Nashville are somewhere at least in the middle of that list.  Raleigh might slide into the lower half as well, can't remember how many cranes are up there currently but I'm pretty sure it's at least 10.

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

They thought: “Why would a smallish coastal city in South Carolina have a lot of cranes?”

we don't build that many high rises as we are the home to Monticello and the prestigious UVA 

7 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Good Afternoon! We can get Charlotte added to a National Crane Count list. I want to crowd-fund this task since we don't all get around the entire city... I'll edit as we come up with places with cranes.

NoDa
• Avery Hall 1
• Avery Hall 2
• Centro NoDa
• Prose NoDa

Optimist Park 
• Flournoy 
• I feel like I'm missing two that I saw from the train today.

North End
• Building on Wadsworth

Uptown
• Moxy
• Legacy Union 4

Ballantyne – 
• Ballantyne Reimagined #1
• Ballantyne Reimagined #2

Dilworth
• Radius Dilworth
• The Campbell
• The Pearl #1
• The Pearl #2
• 1701 East Blvd

South End
• 2161 Hawkins #1
• 2161 Hawkins #2
• Greystar
• 110 East

Madison Park
• Woodlawn and Park Apartments

LoSo 
• Embry Apartments
• Embry Apartments #2
• Mill Creek #1
• Mill Creek #2
• Apartments Beside Lidl #1
• Apartments Beside Lidl #2

Plaza Midwood
• Commonwealth 1
• Commonwealth 2?

Myers Park 
• Myers Park United Methodist Church (Multi-Purpose Building)

FreeMoreWest
• Apartment project who's name I don't remember.

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I wish someone would map all this know about who could do that @CLT Development

[CLT Development]

Just now, KJHburg said:

we don't build that many high rises as we are the home to Monticello and the prestigious UVA 

I wish someone would map all this know about who could do that @CLT Development

I AM, I AM

[carolinaboy]

Isn't there a crane base at Queensbridge? Does that count?

[Professor]

12 hours ago, MarcoPolo said:

Let me rephrase "overlooked".   It's not that they don't know about Charlotte.  Their team of data collectors, typically assess a market based on "buzz",  industry press, and historic precedent as regards construction booms.  Using these as "rules of thumb" it is not completely unbelievable that Charlotte would be overlooked.  We are not recognized in the industry, from the perspective of recent history lenses, as a "boom town".    Our growth is less "flashy".  

With just a bit more research they most likely would have spotted the recent trends that have ignited what would be generally considered a significant boom here.   We will be correcting this oversight soon enough.  Get me those crane counts!

I have aways thought that Charlotte is and has historically been eliminated from lots of similar comparative information, as we are not supposed to be big and great. Many other large city officials that have historically looked at Charlotte as a midsize, backwoods Mayberry'. Some can't adjust to Charlotte's growth and success in a relatively short time or admit that Charlotte is leaving them in a cloud of smoke in regard to those factors. They used to say "The south will rise.  Well, "voila. In the past couple of years, Charlotte has become larger than Pittsburg, Baltimore, and Saint Louis in both city and metro populations. The cranes will increase and should be listed. 

[nicholas]

I'm pretty sure there's a crane up on Poindexter behind the South End Harris Teeter and Edge apartments.  Can't remember the name of the project but I don't think it's been mentioned on here yet.

Edit - Aspen Heights tower in the Gold District.  Think there's still one or two along Dunavant, one or two between Yancey and Tryon, some others throughout South End that I can't think of off the top of my head.

Edited October 31, 2023 by nicholas

[CLT Development]

2 hours ago, nicholas said:

I'm pretty sure there's a crane up on Poindexter behind the South End Harris Teeter and Edge apartments.  Can't remember the name of the project but I don't think it's been mentioned on here yet.

Edit - Aspen Heights tower in the Gold District.  Think there's still one or two along Dunavant, one or two between Yancey and Tryon, some others throughout South End that I can't think of off the top of my head.

I think the ones between Yancey and Tryon are gone, I drove through the other day. People have been leaving cranes up less and less time, likely to move onto the next project. I added Aspen and one on Poindexter

[Norm2]

We are at 31 cranes so far?

[tozmervo]

21 hours ago, CLT Development said:

Good Afternoon! We can get Charlotte added to a National Crane Count list. I want to crowd-fund this task since we don't all get around the entire city... I'll edit as we come up with places with cranes.

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Add more below so we can get an accurate count!

City limits? County? MSA?

[15895]

2 hours ago, Larry Singer said:

I have aways thought that Charlotte is and has historically been eliminated from lots of similar comparative information, as we are not supposed to be big and great. Many other large city officials that have historically looked at Charlotte as a midsize, backwoods Mayberry'. Some can't adjust to Charlotte's growth and success in a relatively short time or admit that Charlotte is leaving them in a cloud of smoke in regard to those factors. They used to say "The south will rise.  Well, "voila. In the past couple of years, Charlotte has become larger than Pittsburg, Baltimore, and Saint Louis in both city and metro populations. The cranes will increase and should be listed. 

Baltimore is still a bigger metro I think but it’s time is definitely coming to be eclipsed by Charlotte. 

I don’t think people are somehow overlooking Charlotte. I just think people tend to find affirmations of what they already believe and look for data to back up their claim. 

Charlotte just happens to be midsized and the urban development reflects that of a more sprawling, booming, southern city.  The growth is by far disproportionately suburban in nature. The growth is just not that urban (which is probably a selling point. Lower taxes, lower cost, larger homes, etc). 

SouthEnd for example “only” has 8,569 existing apartment Units. Between 2018-2022 Uptown “only” added 2,837 units in two square miles. Yet at the same time, Charlotte is a fast growing area. Uptown zip code 28202 still only has a population below 20,000 in 2 sq. Miles. When we expand out to Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Nashville, Austin, Orlando, Tampa. I’m not sure Charlotte particularly stands out to outsiders in urban growth or urban development etc. and that’s literally just the south. I just mention that because it comes up often here: a conspiracy of people not giving CLT it’s dues.

Charlotte has a huge reputation of being a boom town and literally only gets glowing reviews nationally. No one ever has negative views or have a perception that Charlotte is anything but a boom town a lot of people are moving to otherwise.

Additionally, I mean. Even *Miami* isn’t on there so….  That’s why we have a great little thread documenting cranes now. 
 

https://ctycms.com/nc-charlotte-ccp/docs/development-report-april-2023-reduced-size.pdf

[nicholas]

2 hours ago, CLT Development said:

I think the ones between Yancey and Tryon are gone, I drove through the other day. People have been leaving cranes up less and less time, likely to move onto the next project. I added Aspen and one on Poindexter

Just drove past and there is a red one at Yancey/Tryon. 

Also two more at S Tryon/Clanton (one on NE corner, one on NW corner). 

If crane bases count, there's one at Queensbridge.

Not sure if N Tryon/Matheson crane has been mentioned yet.

 

Also.  In the main list, can each crane be listed by address or nearest intersection?  (At least for 5-over-1s because there is an insane number of those going up basically everywhere).  I am all over Charlotte almost every day and I can't remember which project is which just by name. 

Maybe also include the total number of cranes as of most recent update.   Looks like we're at 34 currently but it's tedious to count all of those.

@tozmervo should be Charlotte addresses I would think?

Edited October 31, 2023 by nicholas

[Professor]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Baltimore is still a bigger metro I think but it’s time is definitely coming to be eclipsed by Charlotte. 

I don’t think people are somehow overlooking Charlotte. I just think people tend to find affirmations of what they already believe and look for data to back up their claim. 

Charlotte just happens to be midsized and the urban development reflects that of a more sprawling, booming, southern city.  The growth is by far disproportionately suburban in nature. The growth is just not that urban (which is probably a selling point. Lower taxes, lower cost, larger homes, etc). 

SouthEnd for example “only” has 8,569 existing apartment Units. Between 2018-2022 Uptown “only” added 2,837 units in two square miles. Yet at the same time, Charlotte is a fast growing area. Uptown zip code 28202 still only has a population below 20,000 in 2 sq. Miles. When we expand out to Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Nashville, Austin, Orlando, Tampa. I’m not sure Charlotte particularly stands out to outsiders in urban growth or urban development etc. and that’s literally just the south. I just mention that because it comes up often here: a conspiracy of people not giving CLT it’s dues.

Charlotte has a huge reputation of being a boom town and literally only gets glowing reviews nationally. No one ever has negative views or have a perception that Charlotte is anything but a boom town a lot of people are moving to otherwise.

Additionally, I mean. Even *Miami* isn’t on there so….  That’s why we have a great little thread documenting cranes now. 
 

https://ctycms.com/nc-charlotte-ccp/docs/development-report-april-2023-reduced-size.pdf

I don't know if the urban vs suburban growth is that disproportionate. Both are growing at extraordinary rates. I consider South Park, Medford, Sedgefield, Madison Park and other areas as urban. They are growing very quickly. The suburbs will continue their rapid growth. For many that live in the crowded areas of the northeast, having stretch-out room is a dream come true for many. Many move here to have some space. It is a luxury to them.  It reminds me of when I lived in the Florida panhandle and friends from Miami would visit, and I lived in a house with a large pool and a 1/2 acre lot.  Although my lot was status quo for the area, to them, that was a huge hunk of land and they were envious.  Anyway, we need to be on the list with our crane count. I really like growth and I think that overall, Charlotte is probably doing a pretty good job except for the lack of inner-city rail service. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Larry Singer

[carolinaboy]

22 hours ago, CLT Development said:

And that won't be changing, Dilworth should get three more cranes in the next 12 months *fingers crossed* at Southern Land, H&H and Atrium Bed Tower. Uptown should be poised to get quite a few as well soon though. Vela just got permits, Graham Street Apartments are close, I would think Hall House replacement gets a crane, Hotel Intercontinental should start early next year, plus 2-3 cranes to finish up at Legacy Union by the first of next year. I will say I've been surprised at the number of "crane-less" multifamily buildings. Neither apartment building at Camp North End has a crane, nor does the building going up on the edge of Uptown on North Tryon.

OT: I'm excited about the Vela development and still excited about Intercontinental.

[15895]

4 hours ago, Larry Singer said:

I don't know if the urban vs suburban growth is that disproportionate. Both are growing at extraordinary rates. I consider South Park, Medford, Sedgefield, Madison Park and other areas as urban. They are growing very quickly. The suburbs will continue their rapid growth. For many that live in the crowded areas of the northeast, having stretch-out room is a dream come true for many. Many move here to have some space. It is a luxury to them.  It reminds me of when I lived in the Florida panhandle and friends from Miami would visit, and I lived in a house with a large pool and a 1/2 acre lot.  Although my lot was status quo for the area, to them, that was a huge hunk of land and they were envious.  Anyway, we need to be on the list with our crane count. I really like growth and I think that overall, Charlotte is probably doing a pretty good job except for the lack of inner-city rail service. 

It is very disproportionately low density growth that is suburban in nature. That’s why there’s plenty of room to stretch out, have a larger home, lower cost of living, etc. Thats sort of the trade off.  

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[RANYC]

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

It is very disproportionately low density growth that is suburban in nature. That’s why there’s plenty of room to stretch out, have a larger home, lower cost of living, etc. Thats sort of the trade off.  

 

 

 

 

Charlotte has stretch-out room because it's a younger/newer city, like many sunbelt places, and not because it's trying to grow in a "disproportionately suburban" way.

First, Charlotte is experiencing an outsized amount of residential construction, permitting 10,903 units through June of this year, making it #6.  Again, that's just absolute numbers of construction making it number 6, and not even the number of new units as a proportion of existing.  As a boom city, it is drawing a very diverse resident profile inclusive of both urbanists and suburbanites, young and family and old.  It has given its real estate industry the flexibility to deliver as wide a variety of product as possible to accommodate the booming and yet variegated desire to be here.

In addition, 56% of its new residential units permitted this year were single-family, with the balance as multi-family.  And anyone living here can see that much of our multi-family is clustering in the usual spots in and around center city and in various places along the blue line, and also clustering as infill in places like South Park where office parks are infilling with residential to make them mixed-use with tons of pedestrian interconnectedness.  In Atlanta, the single family proportion of permits was also 56%.  In Dallas-Ft Worth, it was 62%.  In Houston, it was 67%.  In Tampa, it was 54%.  In DC, it was 50%.  

It's not like Charlotte is some major outlier or some modern urbanizing laggard like you're making it out to be, and in many cases, the sheer number of multi-family units we're building outnumber the units being added in older, historically dense cities and as a % of existing multi-family stock, our numbers are through the roof.  We're growing and urbanizing just fine. 

We're a credibly large city with a massive airport and award-winning planners.  We have an enviable corporate employment base that punches well above its weight and offers high proportions of high-quality employment and pay, at least for the educated/certified.  We're a city that straddles the line between two states, and are effectively the capital, heartbeat and crown jewel of the integrated Carolinas region of the country totaling 16 million plus in population. 

We're under intense pressure to rapidly urbanize and yet we attempt to bridle it a bit in the name of responsible and thought-through yet not stifled growth.  At the end of this intense pressure to grow and build, we don't want to wake up and find ourselves having sacrificed all our natural resources and conformed our wetlands and floodplains to some urbanist's grid-patterned wet dream, confronting environmental disaster, a hollowed out skeleton of our former selves in all our green natural splendor and charm, and left with the fortunes and outlook of a Newark, NJ.

Edited November 1, 2023 by RANYC