301 College Street High-rise mixed use development

[apaladin]

2 hours ago, btoy said:

The state does not allow traffic studies to be done while schools are not in session.  Frist week you can do them is first week of August and then you are in line behind everyone else that ordered one ahead of you during the summer.

Pretty sure they did one while school was in. Remember they were thinking of closing a turning lane IIRC. Remenmber Gman430 was referring to an old report, so this is not a new study or shouldn’t be. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by apaladin

[gman430]

The people that live at Canvas Townes speaking at the DRB meeting in regards to this project are a wild bunch. Everything from one guy complaining about the construction quality of his townhome which has NOTHING to do with this project to another lady complaining about the lack of bike lanes. The SCDOT and City of Greenville decides whether they’re allowed or not on the roads surrounding the property not the developer. It’s a public right of way. Who would want to ride their bicycle on Academy Street anyways? I sure wouldn’t. Talk about a suicide mission. Where do these people come from and what do any of these issues have to do with the DRB?  

Anyways, DRB approved it 5-0. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by gman430

[gman430]

Welp…just like with every other project downtown the construction start date for this one has now been pushed back. It is now slated to start construction in first quarter 2024 and take 24-48 months to complete:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/2023/08/04/downtown-greenville19-story-college-street-project-gets-final-approval-updates-development/70528336007/

Edited August 4, 2023 by gman430

[apaladin]

Vegas just posted odds 10:1 no construction in 1st. I’m afraid that nice chain link fence will turn into their version of the 25 year old gateway fence. 

[cabelagent]

5 hours ago, apaladin said:

Vegas just posted odds 10:1 no construction in 1st. I’m afraid that nice chain link fence will turn into their version of the 25 year old gateway fence. 

Wow…would hate to see the gateway lose its prized reputation. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by cabelagent

[gman430]

I said it will be at least two or three years before we see any tower cranes downtown. My prediction might actually be right. Interest rates continue to go up. Gas prices continue to go up. The number of wasteland sites downtown with fences up around them continue to go up. Sad times. 

[NewlyUpstate]

Why do gas prices matter at all? After factoring in inflation, prices are actually relatively low and for the most part stay fairly consistent. Not sure why you keep mentioning it.

[gman430]

27 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Why do gas prices matter at all? After factoring in inflation, prices are actually relatively low and for the most part stay fairly consistent. Not sure why you keep mentioning it.

Those construction vehicles like backhoes and bulldozers along with the semis that transport the supplies to the site aren’t powered by Tesla batteries. Gas prices are included with the overall inflation numbers and are a large part of it:

 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gas-prices-hit-2023-high-as-oil-prices-spur-concerns-of-inflation-uptick-165013273.html

Whether we like it or not, everything revolves around gas prices. Those airplanes you fly on it use it. The semis that deliver food to the grocery store you shop at use it. Your mode of transportation to and from work use it. Construction vehicles and equipment use it. The higher gas prices go, the higher everything else goes with it.

Edited August 6, 2023 by gman430

[NewlyUpstate]

35 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Those construction vehicles like backhoes and bulldozers along with the semis that transport the supplies to the site aren’t powered by Tesla batteries. Gas prices are included with the overall inflation numbers and are a large part of it:

 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gas-prices-hit-2023-high-as-oil-prices-spur-concerns-of-inflation-uptick-165013273.html

Whether we like it or not, everything revolves around gas prices. Those airplanes you fly on it use it. The semis that deliver food to the grocery store you shop at use it. Your mode of transportation to and from work use it. Construction vehicles and equipment use it. The higher gas prices go, the higher everything else goes with it.

Gas prices are around $3.70/gal average nationally right now.  From 2011-2014, gas prices were right in the same range. $3.71 in 2011 has the same buying power as $5.14 today going off CPI indicies.

Meaning gas prices are actually almost 30% cheaper today than they were 10 years ago on a real dollar basis.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m

Edited August 6, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[gman]

2 hours ago, gman430 said:

I said it will be at least two or three years before we see any tower cranes downtown. My prediction might actually be right. Interest rates continue to go up. Gas prices continue to go up. The number of wasteland sites downtown with fences up around them continue to go up. Sad times. 

If these are sad times in Greenville, we sure are lucky. Seriously, we live in the best city and area in the country. To those that keep saying how bad it is here, move on. Life is too short to be miserable. 

[vicupstate]

6 hours ago, gman430 said:

I said it will be at least two or three years before we see any tower cranes downtown. My prediction might actually be right. Interest rates continue to go up. Gas prices continue to go up. The number of wasteland sites downtown with fences up around them continue to go up. Sad times. 

Since we never went without a tower crane in the 2008-2012 period, we should still expect them now. One solitary postponement of 3 months for a project the size of Canvas is nothing to get concerned  over. The final approvals just came this week as it is. Someone that seemed to know told me The Beach Company gets their financing from Saudi Arabia. If so, the Fed's actions probably don't affect them much.   

[apaladin]

14 hours ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Gas prices are around $3.70/gal average nationally right now.  From 2011-2014, gas prices were right in the same range. $3.71 in 2011 has the same buying power as $5.14 today going off CPI indicies.

Meaning gas prices are actually almost 30% cheaper today than they were 10 years ago on a real dollar basis.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epm0_pte_nus_dpg&f=m

Maybe but gas prices are double what they were 3 years ago. GMan430 is wrong gas prices are coming down. Dropped 2 cents today and it doesn’t matter they are are up 60 cents in the last 3 weeks. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by apaladin

[gman430]

Oil prices continue to surge. Not good:  

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/07/oil-prices-rise-after-saudi-russia-cuts-and-russian-oil-export-hub-attack.html

That will definitely spike inflation readings. Another interest rate hike coming from the Fed this year due to that no doubt. This will lead to even more delays for planned projects downtown also. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by gman430

[NewlyUpstate]

10 hours ago, apaladin said:

Maybe but gas prices are double what they were 3 years ago. GMan430 is wrong gas prices are coming down. Dropped 2 cents today and it doesn’t matter they are are up 60 cents in the last 3 weeks. 

Gas prices are double than what they were 3 years ago because 3 years ago everybody stopped driving anywhere because this thing called Covid-19 happened and demand completely evaporated globally. Oil prices actually went negative for awhile because producers would rather give oil away then to pay to store it.

Some of y'all really don't understand economics.

Edited August 7, 2023 by NewlyUpstate

[PuppiesandKittens]

1 hour ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Gas prices are double than what they were 3 years ago because 3 years ago everybody stopped driving anywhere because this thing called Covid-19 happened and demand completely evaporated globally. Oil prices actually went negative for awhile because producers would rather give oil away then to pay to store it.

Some of ya'll really don't understand economics.

Gas prices likely have little to no effect on buyer demand for this project.

Most all of y’all (note the spelling) know that.

Edited August 7, 2023 by PuppiesandKittens

[gman]

5 hours ago, NewlyUpstate said:

Gas prices are double than what they were 3 years ago because 3 years ago everybody stopped driving anywhere because this thing called Covid-19 happened and demand completely evaporated globally. Oil prices actually went negative for awhile because producers would rather give oil away then to pay to store it.

Some of y'all really don't understand economics.

I keep responding the same as you. It is actually Economics 101. Demand and supply. But, those that want to put blame on a politician don't care about the facts. By the way, it happens when a Republican holds the office too. 

[gman430]

24 minutes ago, gman said:

I keep responding the same as you. It is actually Economics 101. Demand and supply. But, those that want to put blame on a politician don't care about the facts. By the way, it happens when a Republican holds the office too. 

I’m not blaming the current Biden administration for the high gas prices. One person doesn’t control the world’s oil supply. What I am saying is that the high gas prices we are experiencing currently will lead the Fed to raise interest rates more. This will no doubt lead to further delays of planned downtown projects. Good article here on it: 

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/us-gas-prices-oil-inflation-smile-mohamed-el-erian-2023-8

Edited August 7, 2023 by gman430

[apaladin]

Biden is responsible, he radically reduced US production. We were not dependant on foreign oil and should not be. Now we are. Even before Covid gas was over a dollar cheaper than now. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by apaladin

[gman]

1 hour ago, apaladin said:

Biden is responsible, he radically reduced US production. We were not dependant on foreign oil and should not be. Now we are. Even before Covid gas was over a dollar cheaper than now. 

Gas is still cheaper here than in most of the world, and it is still all about supply and demand. 

[gman430]

Maybe some potentially good news: 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/08/philadelphia-fed-president-patrick-harker-suggests-interest-rate-hikes-are-at-an-end.html

However, it also sounds like there won’t be any easing for a while. Not sure how the developers waiting on interest rates to drop are going to build their projects. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by gman430

[apaladin]

Back to this project. Pretty sure demolition of the parking garage was originally supposed to start in August and August is about over but that chain link fence sure is purty. 

[gman430]

20 minutes ago, apaladin said:

Back to this project. Pretty sure demolition of the parking garage was originally supposed to start in August and August is about over but that chain link fence sure is purty. 

Construction start date has been pushed back until 1st quarter 2024. Don’t expect to see any movement on site for at least six months.

[distortedlogic]

I've been looking around but can't find any updates on this project; anybody hearing anything. Still looking at 1st quarter?

[gman430]

3 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

I've been looking around but can't find any updates on this project; anybody hearing anything. Still looking at 1st quarter?

This is what Dan Doyle (Senior Vice President and COO of Beach Company) told me via email on October 19th: 

“Current estimate is mid-2024 (could be sooner/later), dependent upon issuance of permits, final construction costs and capital market conditions.“

Edited December 1, 2023 by gman430

[apaladin]

19 minutes ago, gman430 said:

This is what Dan Doyle (Senior Vice President and COO of Beach Company) told me via email on October 19th: 

“Current estimate is mid-2024 (could be sooner/later), dependent upon issuance of permits, final construction costs and capital market conditions.“

Read between the lines, doesn’t want to say it but its dead. Went from originally beginning demo on the garage in August/September this year to being delayed almost a year.