Cars of the QC

[nicholas]

Black Friday afternoon in Southpark...Ferrari SF90 Stradale. 

[InSouthPark]

16 hours ago, nicholas said:

Black Friday afternoon in Southpark...Ferrari SF90 Stradale. 

 

With the fantastic weather we have had this fall, with virtually no chance of rain ever....I have seen more exotics than I can ever remember.  I basically only drive my daughter to the bus stop and I see like an exotic a day between Carmel, Glen Eagles and Park.  Its nuts.  Haven't seen that beaut though.  

[nicholas]

LaMelo Ball's ridiculous-looking Urus in Southpark a few weeks ago....

[tozmervo]

51 minutes ago, nicholas said:

LaMelo Ball's ridiculous-looking Urus in Southpark a few weeks ago....

What does it transform into

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, nicholas said:

LaMelo Ball's ridiculous-looking Urus in Southpark a few weeks ago....

I love Lamelo but I'm disappointed to learn that he's a pig parker. Lamelo, are you satisfied with that parking job?

[atlrvr]

And a tax dodger with Montana plates.

[turbocraig]

39 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

And a tax dodger with Montana plates.

Why should he be any different than the ~20 other people I see every day sporting expired out-of-state tags?  No one seems to care.  Up north, it’s not atypical to be stopped at a random checkpoint by police checking registrations.  Here, it’s unheard of.  Just think of the lost revenue.

[videtur quam contuor]

My next vehicle may be a full electric car. I am interested in experiences and knowledge from others about this most urban of automobiles. Is it worth a new thread? Is it too technology focused and not "built environment" related for the site?  Are there other sites one can recommend for a novice to make decisions, if not this site?

[tozmervo]

I've been assuming that when my Prius kicks off it will get replaced with an all electric. The # of EV vehicle models coming out is crazy, I think there are supposed to be something like 200 models available within a year or two. 

Charlotte Talks had a good discussion on EV cars recently. We get answers to your questions about electric vehicles | WFAE 90.7 - Charlotte's NPR News Source

Edit also handy guide. No state credits available in NC, but federal: Federal Tax Credits for All-Electric and Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles (fueleconomy.gov)

Edited January 4, 2022 by tozmervo

[wilmore]

22 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

My next vehicle may be a full electric car. I am interested in experiences and knowledge from others about this most urban of automobiles. Is it worth a new thread? Is it too technology focused and not "built environment" related for the site?  Are there other sites one can recommend for a novice to make decisions, if not this site?

I'll answer here and just say, wow, electric cars rule for the city (and really almost every!) use case. Got a Tesla Model 3 about a month ago and am loving it, have taken it on a few day trips. For what I wanted this is really the only choice, we had an SUV, and no kids, so the Y was not as appealing. The new Ford looks pretty good, but it's kind of a weird spot as a small crossover and basically as expensive as the Model 3. 

On one of the day trips, I drove about 5 hours total, and needed to stop at the Tesla supercharger in Columbia, behind a Hilton Garden Inn, for some charging to get enough range to make it back easiy. 15 minutes, $7. 

The "one pedal driving" is also very cool although I am not 100% locked in on it yet, but as you get used to using one pedal mode, it is strange to drive a gas car and have it just keep coasting up at things after you take your foot off the gas. 

 

[DMann]

My wife's Model 3 is 3 1/2 years old and I can't imagine ever going back to ICE.  Wilmore, you will get comfortable with one pedal driving, and if you are not yet using Autopilot please get used to it.  Charging is never an issue and I live in a condo with a board firmly stuck in the 1950's.

[nicholas]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:02 PM, tarhoosier said:

My next vehicle may be a full electric car. I am interested in experiences and knowledge from others about this most urban of automobiles. Is it worth a new thread? Is it too technology focused and not "built environment" related for the site?  Are there other sites one can recommend for a novice to make decisions, if not this site?

Well it will be a car of the QC so I think it can stay, lol.

My personal experience and observation of those with electric cars is that, if you're a gearhead, you will probably find them boring (other than maybe straight line speed).  However if you view a car as more of an appliance, you will probably like electric cars.  There are positives and negatives to both, but for the average person they don't have to worry very much about mechanical maintenance in an electric car.  Range and service availability (for example, if you have a Tesla, you have to go to a Tesla service center, not an independent shop) are the two things I hear the most complaints about.

Edited January 4, 2022 by nicholas

[davidclt]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:02 PM, tarhoosier said:

My next vehicle may be a full electric car. I am interested in experiences and knowledge from others about this most urban of automobiles. Is it worth a new thread? Is it too technology focused and not "built environment" related for the site?  Are there other sites one can recommend for a novice to make decisions, if not this site?

My experience is Tesla focused and the non-Tesla experience is improving but not as seamless as the Tesla experience . . . yet (it will get there) and I think we're slowly evolving like Europe has to universal charging.

I've had my Model 3 for 2.5 years. I don't like spending money, I don't like buying cars and I was never going to buy a new car again (the last new cars I bought were in 1999, a 2000 Volvo V70R wagon to move back across country from Seattle and arriving back in Charlotte a 2000 Audi A6 2.7t).  The Audi got traded for a Prius in 2006 (the 2006 Prius was a pain in the ass car - kept trying to kill me); the Volvo got traded for used Ford Flex when my garage indicated putting any more money in the car was my prerogative but the $6,000 in fiddly repairs were not worth it. When I made my deposit on my Tesla after one test drive moments before midnight on June 16, 2019, I feared I was throwing money away and making a huge, expensive mistake.

From: Tesla
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 11:53 PM
Subject: Thank you for your order

Additionally, we were a one-car, condo living family and I was about to dispatch kid #1 to college (with kid #2 hot on their heels two-years later). What was I doing? (let's enumerate the stupid decisions being made here . . . I easily count six+).

The purchase process was a dream. Everything was handled online before my delivery including transfer of funds for the car (I hate paper) and it all just worked like magic (no cashier's check, just EFT). Tesla offered me (sight unseen) $2k more than CarMax on my trade. I showed up, executed the (state required) PAPERwork, got a brief introduction to the car and then was turned loose.

To summarize my past 2.5 years . . .  I still look forward to driving just because I get to drive my Tesla. It is a joy to drive. The widely touted Full-Self-Driving (FSD) isn't widely available and I'm not in the beta - I wouldn't pay $10k for it and would do it via subscription for road trips. Navigate on Autopilot which is useful on freeways (adaptive cruise control, auto lane-change, onramp to offramp navigation) works well and continues to improve. The one pedal driving is tough to give up once you acclimate to it. All I've done to the car in 2.5 years is keep the tires inflated, rotate them once and put windshield washer fluid in the reservoir.

Change your way of thinking about driving. Those who have never driven electric, "but what about the charging . . . it takes too long"? Add up how much accumulated time you spend each year filling your tank from arrival to departure from the gas station - even five minutes a week is 260 minutes per year (4+ hours/year).

There are three connectors in use typically:

• Tesla's connector which does Levels 1, 2 and 3
• J1772 which is ubiquitous and does Levels 1 and 2 (it's what you usually see in public at Publix, on the streets at meters, etc.) (Europe uses a connector called Mennekes)
• CCS1 which is becoming more common and is the Level 3 connector for all but Tesla and is J1172 with a DC connection added to the bottom. (CCS2 in Europe is the same with Mennekes having DC connection added to the bottom)  
• There's also CHAdeMO (CHArge de MOve) which is still used primarily in Japan but falling out of favor everywhere else. It's clunky by comparison, it does Level 1, 2 and 3. Only one car sold new in America in 2022 natively supports CHAdeMO, the Nissan Leaf.

At home, I trickle charge (Level 1) at 120v, 15A AC (empty to full 35+ hours) CHANGE YOUR WAY OF THINKING ABOUT DRIVING - you won't drive to an empty battery around town because you'll be leaving home with a full or nearly full battery every day.

When I drive somewhere around town, there are increasingly chargers near where I'm going that charge at 240v, 30-50A AC (Level 2) which can take the car from empty to full in about 6 hours. You can also install Level 2 charging at home and go low cost, just installing a 240v outlet and using the cord that comes with the car or going high-cotton and installing a dedicated charge point. For road trips, there's Level 3 charging (aka DC Fast Charging, DCFC) which is provided by Tesla, Electrify America, EVGo and ChargePoint as examples. These can take a car from flat to full in 45-60 minutes but even on road trips, you'll routinely charge to 80% meaning your stop averages 20 minutes(ish) and you're not ever going to get to 0% unless you're just trying to (it takes work). Cold temperatures reduce range (just like in a gas car) and range decreases as speed increases (spoiler, just like in a gas car - you can't break the Laws of Physics but the laws of Physics can break you).

Here's what a road-trip looks like from Charlotte to Florida in my Tesla - depart Charlotte around 9:00 . . . stop in St. George, SC for 45 minutes for bathroom break, lunch (it's only a directed 20 minute stop but extra energy). Next stop, Yulee, Fl around 3:15 for a 10 minute bathroom break, then Daytona for 10 more minutes where I catch up on Hulu or Netflix in the car) and on to my final destination in lovely Central Florida. Next summer, we're going to have a hotel stay on the way down. We'll pick a hotel enroute from here: Destination Charging | Tesla. The charging might realistically add 30 minutes to the trip time over 600 miles.

Pick a car and check out some of the road trips you make here: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ another useful site/app is PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car!

In conclusion, unless you're driving across Canada in January, I'd highly recommend an electric car without reservation.

Edited January 6, 2022 by davidclt
Updated to clarify AC vs. DC and style.

[wilmore]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:21 PM, DMann said:

My wife's Model 3 is 3 1/2 years old and I can't imagine ever going back to ICE.  Wilmore, you will get comfortable with one pedal driving, and if you are not yet using Autopilot please get used to it.  Charging is never an issue and I live in a condo with a board firmly stuck in the 1950's.

I definitely need to get used to the autopilot! I never really used cruise control before, so it's definitely a change. I only think to do it when i'm on a perfect road for it and trying to show someone how it works...

[videtur quam contuor]

I am considering another vehicle than Tesla. Around town and home charging are not the issue for me. Traveling on occasion seems a mildly more time consuming thing than with petrol but as you and others say it all requires a recalculation of your experience with a vehicle. How often do I drive now with a full tank of gas? Almost never.

If someone has good experience with an app that shows chargers available in the US, level of charging, in use/available, type of charger, cost etc. then I would appreciate that information from experienced users. I have an electrician coming next week to determine if my currently unused 50 amp circuit can be repurposed for home charging. The range was gas/electric split with 50 amp but our current unit is all gas which is where we will stay, thus the unused circuit. I am in a condo with an attached enclosed garage, the best situation. The breaker box is in the garage. 

I was at the Charlotte car show in November and test drove a Kia Niro for a few blocks and experienced the regenerative braking. Electric vehicles were an emphasis at the show with Duke people with a mock garage charger with engineer to discuss installation issues and Duke fleet staff with electric vehicles to test on the streets around the Convention Center. It started me thinking.

Edit: I see, now that I have clicked on the link David provided, that it is the equivalent to the phone app I have on my phone and played with this week. If there is another as good or with more/better information, pile on.

Edited January 6, 2022 by tarhoosier

[davidclt]

22 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

I am considering another vehicle than Tesla.

If I were buying today, I'd be contemplating the 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5.

[davidclt]

24 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Edit: I see, now that I have clicked on the link David provided, that it is the equivalent to the phone app I have on my phone and played with this week. If there is another as good or with more/better information, pile on.

I'm not sure any of the networks have an API that exposes free/engaged or other station information (I've looked at ElectrifyAmerica and EVGo for developer information to no avail). Another factor is direct billing to the car. Both of those remain the sticky wickets of the third-party charging networks and an albatross for EV adoption (because uncertainty).

[videtur quam contuor]

1 hour ago, davidclt said:

If I were buying today, I'd be contemplating the 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5.

KiaEV6 has my attention also

[nicholas]

On 1/6/2022 at 12:59 PM, wilmore said:

I definitely need to get used to the autopilot! I never really used cruise control before, so it's definitely a change. I only think to do it when i'm on a perfect road for it and trying to show someone how it works...

Yeah, sadly cruise control is basically pointless because people won't stay to the right once they've passed someone.  Honestly I think I've used it like three times in the past couple of years, it's too frustrating because everyone just cruises in random lanes instead of staying to the right except for actively passing.

[davidclt]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:45 PM, tarhoosier said:

Around town and home charging are not the issue for me. Traveling on occasion seems a mildly more time consuming thing than with petrol but as you and others say it all requires a recalculation of your experience with a vehicle.

Because I'm always curious, here's my electricity costs purchased from charging networks for ~30k miles driven since I got the car:

Year	Amount
2019	$ 94.25
2020	$ 125.16
2021	$ 308.40
2022	$ 11.90
Grand Total	$ 539.71

For comparison, here were my fuel costs for the years leading up to the purchase of my EV:

Year	Amount
2016	$ 2,221.97
2017	$ 1,968.34
2018	$ 1,716.48
2019	$ 605.32
Grand Total	$ 6,512.11

The 5% back I got for every dollar of gas in those four years ($ 325.60) has paid for 60% of the electricity I've purchased from charging networks in the past 2.5 years. Sadly, no credit card gives me back 5% on electricity . . .  yet.

I will add, that even trickle charging at home . . . in month 8 of 12 for my Annual Budget Billing Plan from Duke, I'm still low for the year and two of the remaining four months are mild and low energy consumption months traditionally (March and April).

Edited January 8, 2022 by davidclt
Added Duke information.

[DMann]

There is no comparison of costs of "fuel" between ICE cars and EV's.  The EV revolution will challenge many current (pun intended) ways of doing business.  Gas Stations, Auto Parts Stores, Auto Repair Shops, Muffler Shops, Car Salespeople, then there is the entire fossil fuel industry.  We have had our Model 3 for over 3 years and our charging costs are similar.  Also, there are businesses that will allow free charging at their locations.  Since we have owned the car there have been 2 in warranty service calls where a technician comes to our condo and repairs the issue and leaves.  Our only other charge has been to replace the tires.

Do not fight the EV revolution, join it regardless of what brand you buy.  You will not be dissapointed.

[SydneyCarton]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:03 PM, nicholas said:

Black Friday afternoon in Southpark...Ferrari SF90 Stradale. 

That's amazing....

[davidclt]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:38 PM, nicholas said:

Range and service availability (for example, if you have a Tesla, you have to go to a Tesla service center, not an independent shop) are the two things I hear the most complaints about.

From the Deloitte 2022 Global Automotive Consumer Study (I mean I get it but wow!):

Also, surprised ICE is still this high:

[tozmervo]

Do people have ICE gas tanks that can go 518 miles? That seems looney. 

Those survey results are surprising in some ways - virtually everyone I know is planning on converting to electric - but I could appreciate that a lot of people haven't even given it a thought yet. 

[davidclt]

7 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Do people have ICE gas tanks that can go 518 miles? That seems looney. 

Those survey results are surprising in some ways - virtually everyone I know is planning on converting to electric - but I could appreciate that a lot of people haven't even given it a thought yet. 

I'm wondering who wants to drive 500 miles non-stop? When I was 24, I made the 500-mile drive from Charlotte to DeLand, FL stopping only for gas (no food, I was broke) in less than 7 hours. I only did that once and that was enough. It's good to stop every three hours and just stretch my legs.