The Coronavirus thread

[elrodvt]

23 minutes ago, A2. said:

Based on what?  government statistics. You guys.......
 

I don’t have a political dog in this fight, but if you believe every number that you are seeing from the propaganda piece (aka main stream media), then that’s fine. But there are equally smart people, that disagree vehemently with the “official narrative”. The bottom line is that this is a crisis being used to demolish the middle class and implode the economy. This is by design, and I promise you, starvation is a hell of a lot worse than what this virus can dish out. I know friends and family who are now out of work.
 

A global depression is being manufactured right in front of us, and we are here just discussing the boogeyman of C19, that most all who contract it, live. And even the government admits those facts. The epic level of unemployment that’s coming in like a tsunami is going to be FAR worse than anyone here can even imagine.

Lastly, if it was so deadly, and they want us shuttered in our homes, why the hell don’t they close the grocery stores? This is counterintuitive and illogical, even to you guys who are absolutely on board that this is the next Spanish Flu. 

Just let me know, why haven’t they shut down the whole thing???? I see more people out than I ever have. People driving, people hiking, people at the stores, people at the parks, people freggin everywhere. The reason, they can’t go to work, or have lost the work they once had. It’s a total joke.

 

Here’s what is really going on, along with the destruction of the global economy. And this isn’t from some quack. He’s a doctor that goes play by play of what’s being done to each and everyone of us:

https://m.beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2020/04/x22report-spotlight-this-event-was-a-coordinated-last-ditch-effort-by-the-deep-state-moves-countermoves-dr-shiva-video-3516134.html

 

again, I’m just trying to provoke thought, not anger, although I know many here will be. The above is TRUTH. Nothing more, nothing less. It takes a little while to get into the meat and potatoes of the discussion, but the agenda is there. 

Are these like the smart people, with degrees in basket weaving, who are the primary sources used by climate change deniers on Fox? :-)

I doubt any one here has the expertise to go against consensus based science. We need to rely on those that have credibility and try to gain some rudimentary knowledge for ourselves via sources like scientific American magazine (not YouTube). Peer reviewed!

With all due respect ( I've enjoyed your financial discussions) I suggest conspiracy theories or the tin hat club would be best in a separate thread.

Edited April 5, 2020 by elrodvt

[videtur quam contuor]

My parents lived in a time of contagion without cure. TB, polio, sepsis*, "childhood" diseases, which were fatal to many, child age or not, and so much more. Oh, the stories they passed to me about fear and loss. Many younger than I have no such experience, and many have never been told of such a time by their family members. These younger ones are the lucky ones. Today they must learn on their own what I learned  long ago.

*Calvin Coolidge had a son who died of sepsis because he played tennis at the White House without socks. Oh, the times my mother reminded me of this event when I had a blister anywhere. Alcohol and bandages were quickly applied. Has anyone here had a parent remind them of Coolidge's son and his untimely demise?

[videtur quam contuor]

Early in my working life, not so long ago it seems, I was tested every year for TB as a condition of employment. Public Health nurses for Meck County provided it at the Health centers. A tine test it was called. Four tiny metal prongs quickly poked onto the arm and if there was a red reaction in the next few days I was required to report to the health office. 

I have a smallpox vaccination scar on my upper left arm and receiving it is one of my earliest  memories. It is almost faded now. No one under age 50 can recall this or carry the mark.*

Ask your forebears about this. 

*I re-read this and realize I must explain why there is a scar. The vaccination, even to my time, was nearly the same as for Edward Jenner, the founder of vaccination. The arm was scraped to expose underlying tissue and a weakened or dead form of the pox was applied. A scab and crust formed over the spot, perhaps the size of a dime, and eventually sloughed. The arm carried the scar of the crust for life, though diminished over time. It was necessary to maintain the crust until it sloughed as that held the pox on the tissue sufficiently to be absorbed. NO PICKING.  This has been your message from 1797

Edited April 5, 2020 by tarhoosier

[urbanlover568]

Looks like Boris Johnson has been taken to the hospital.

[kermit]

15 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

Looks like Boris Johnson has been taken to the hospital.

While Rand Paul has been conspicuously silent...

[Crucial_Infra]

Whoa things seem to have gone off the rails here. Much love to my uppers out there. As bad as things are about to get, I’m still hopeful NC is going to suffer much less than most places but that’s only if we continue to social distance for the good of everyone. Today, NC ranks 45th in deaths per capita. Only WV, WY, UT, and HI have better numbers than NC — the ninth most populous state. Again, hang in there folks. It’s working. We’re gonna be back to work sooner than later if we stay the course. If we get slack now, the economic toll will be much worse and go on far longer. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Crucial_Infra

[A2.]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Are these like the smart people, with degrees in basket weaving, who are the primary sources used by climate change deniers on Fox? :-)

I doubt any one here has the expertise to go against consensus based science. We need to rely on those that have credibility and try to gain some rudimentary knowledge for ourselves via sources like scientific American magazine (not YouTube). Peer reviewed!

With all due respect ( I've enjoyed your financial discussions) I suggest conspiracy theories or the tin hat club would be best in a separate thread.

Your response is truly insulting and shows you didn’t listen to the entire video. It takes a lot longer to view than your response to me. He’s actually a doctor with multiple degrees in Biological matters from MIT and his knowledge is way above mine or your pay grade. 
 

When you are presented with truth and care not to listen to someone who is explaining CLEARLY what the real agenda is, and then use the age old conspiracy theorist bit to call me out, it proves that political ideology is superseding your ability to  hear another valid view.
 

I’m politically agnostic, and think they are all a bunch of liars, including Trump. The reality is that this is a designed destruction of the economy and C19 is being used as a scapegoat to blame it on, just to take everyone’s eyes off the ball. It’s the oldest trick in the book.

The other motives are listed on the video, which you didn’t watch. Again I tried and I didn’t call anyone out in my posts. And it’s quite insulting when you comment the way you did to take my comments on the topic to the tin foil hat section. Shows me that truth will not penetrate your preconceived notions of another’s viewpoint. 

 I’m not here to try and convince you, or anyone else of what other highly educated people have to say. However, you can’t always look through the prism of politics and write off another valid viewpoint from people who have the credentials to prove a point and prove it with facts.

As for me, enjoy your thread. I’m going to be taking a UP holiday for a while. I have always appreciated and loved most all the content on this board. I have also been quite civil and nice, even when disagreeing. 
 

for what it’s worth, I have also been quite nice to help many avoid total financial destruction on this board. I certainly didn’t have to. So many laughed at me then, and I took it. Well, to be honest, I’m not going to take being called out anymore. Your response has single handily caused me to again question the civility of people. I am a person and have views, while maybe not your views, but I don’t break out childish tin foil hat wearing rhetoric. 
 

The views I hold, while not popular, doesn’t mean they aren’t true. I hope you can focus on appreciating another viewpoint. Prepare for your financial collapse as it is going to happen regardless of what anyone on here believes. I’m a highly educated professional who can easily post on my Twitter feed. I just post because I thought maybe some people would appreciate the other views shared. I guess not. 
 

sigining off,

 

A2

Edited April 5, 2020 by A2.

[urbanlover568]

Spain, Germany, and Italy are showing signs of the curve flattening. Some areas in the US are expecting the same as early as next week. I'm more optimistic this morning on the situation as we see new numbers from around the world and locally. Hopefully we can restart the economy sooner than 30 days. 

[eastsider]

Everyone knows that the corona-virus is caused by the 5G network, i saw it on the internet. 

Can we please end all of the conspiracy theories? This thread has gone off the rails more than a Trump press conference.

[A2.]

Good day, good night, good life! 
(It’s been a great ride fellow UPers!)

PS—-going anonymous from this point. And will refrain from posting. 
 

A2

 

[elrodvt]

Sorry it became too hot for you:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/shiva-ayyadurai-antivaxxer-for-senate/

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/jan/24/fact-checking-hoaxes-and-conspiracies-about-corona/

And so forth...

For the record I watched some of the video. He came off as a hoaxer and after a few looks decided he wasn't worth my time.

Not sure why that insults you but so be it. Sorry to see you take your toys home and leave "our thread".

[11 HouseBZ]

Guys, this is a forum that is better known for civilized conversation over other forums. By insulting someone over different views degrades that notion. "Ten attaboys can be erased by one screw up". If you disagree with a post, state why you disagree. If it bothers you, ignore it. Simple.

Seriously, just be nice. I need that reminder sometimes. 

[TCLT]

Guys, this is a forum that is better known for civilized conversation over other forums. By insulting someone over different views degrades that notion. "Ten attaboys can be erased by one screw up". If you disagree with a post, state why you disagree. If it bothers you, ignore it. Simple.
Seriously, just be nice. I need that reminder sometimes. 

Oh please. There’s a difference between differing opinions and conspiracy and misinformation. Those that post the latter deserve to be insulted and should be. We should all be happy to see them run out of these threads.

[Crucial_Infra]

It blows my mind that by end of this week the death toll will exceed 20,000. It’s just hard to imagine this is actually happening but it most assuredly is. And all of this is happening while 90% of the country is under some sort of lockdown. Can you imagine how much worse it would be if we hadn’t locked down? We truly are talking millions of dead in the U.S. alone, and an economy in ruins. Whatever economic pain this is causing — and it is extreme — it is NOTHING compared to the pain and fear that would result from the death of MILLIONS of Americans. People need to wake up that the actions we are taking are not an overreaction at all. If anything, we may still be under reacting. The entire planet is locked down! Why? For some new global order? No, to save as many lives as possible. The science couldn’t be more clear. Until there is a vaccine, social distancing is all we have to stop the spread. 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Crucial_Infra

[11 HouseBZ]

9 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Oh please. There’s a difference between differing opinions and conspiracy and misinformation. Those that post the latter deserve to be insulted and should be. We should all be happy to see them run out of these threads.

And as I said, respond to it, please do so. But insults can be left out. I didn't agree with hardly any of what was posted, but don't feel the need to insult. What I didn't agree with was ignored. 

[southslider]

2 hours ago, A2. said:

Based on what?

Based on real ICUs at real hospitals filled with real people on their real death beds.

[TCLT]

And as I said, respond to it, please do so. But insults can be left out. I didn't agree with hardly any of what was posted, but don't feel the need to insult. What I didn't agree with was ignored. 

This right here is the problem. People get more upset by someone being uncivil than by someone being dangerously wrong at best and intentionally misleading at worst. If you want to ignore the garbage that’s been posted good for you, but this holier than thou appeal to civility is childish and unproductive. Bad behavior deserves to be called out and should. You don’t need to try to play mediator.

[gman430]

This virus is all Carol Baskins fault and that’s the truth. Proof: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-04-05-20/h_24d6531089785e1ef18e16b569a42346

Edited April 5, 2020 by gman430

[urbanlover568]

2 hours ago, urbanlover568 said:

Looks like Boris Johnson has been taken to the hospital.

#BREAKING

 

Boris johnson's doctors said to be concerned about his breathing, According to the guardian. Also, According to the Russian newspaper RIA Novosti he has apparently been put on ventilator support. The newspaper is apparently citing a high ranking NHS source 

It's everywhere now...

[11 HouseBZ]

Not being holier than anyone. I didn't want to exclude myself from needing correction from incorrect opinions I've had. If someone post something you feel is wrong, respond to it with civility. Tell them they are wrong, back it up with facts like many are doing. But understand, if someone has an incorrect opinion, how best do you feel it is to convince them otherwise? Being rude? Civility no longer has place just because someone could be wrong? This to me seems to be the real problem. Many people have become my way, wrong or right, or the highway. Having civil conversation is how you get productive results. Insulting someone or trying to slam them for a wrong or differing view is childish and should be left for Instagram. 

[gman430]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

Not trying to start a fight, just asking the question: how do you rationalize those numbers with your opinions about stay at home orders?

The numbers are simply pure luck, they’re lying, they aren’t counting all of the dead bodies, or they turned off their 5G network. The numbers will probably spike again this upcoming week. If it was up to me, everything would be reopened tomorrow. Bars, restaurants, sports, casinos, movie theaters, amusement parks, etc.

Edited April 5, 2020 by gman430

[kermit]

15 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The numbers are simply pure luck, they’re lying, they aren’t counting all of the dead bodies, or they turned off their 5G network. The numbers will probably spike again this upcoming week. If it was up to me, everything would be reopened tomorrow. Bars, restaurants, sports, casinos, movie theaters, amusement parks, etc.

so why are you citing numbers that you don't believe to be accurate?

[urbanlover568]

17 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The numbers are simply pure luck, they’re lying, they aren’t counting all of the dead bodies, or they turned off their 5G network. The numbers will probably spike again this upcoming week. If it was up to me, everything would be reopened tomorrow. Bars, restaurants, sports, casinos, movie theaters, amusement parks, etc.

I'm very glad you brought up this.

2 countries who started with COVID 19 at the same time:

US:

 

South Korea:

 

It's not hard to see which country got it right. 

[kermit]

4 hours ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

Not being holier than anyone. I didn't want to exclude myself from needing correction from incorrect opinions I've had. If someone post something you feel is wrong, respond to it with civility. Tell them they are wrong, back it up with facts like many are doing. But understand, if someone has an incorrect opinion, how best do you feel it is to convince them otherwise? Being rude? Civility no longer has place just because someone could be wrong? This to me seems to be the real problem. Many people have become my way, wrong or right, or the highway. Having civil conversation is how you get productive results. Insulting someone or trying to slam them for a wrong or differing view is childish and should be left for Instagram. 

I struggle with this in our current era. Its not usually a matter of “could be wrong” these days, its an issue of how you deal with outright propaganda (and the people who reproduce propaganda). Five minutes of conservative cable news shows anyone with critical thinking skills that they are lying to promote their self interest, its not a matter of misunderstanding.

At this point in time should we respond to climate change deniers with patience and understanding?
Should we be kind to virus hoaxers at the moment?
What about at the next school shooting when they say the only solution is "a good guy with a gun"?

People are getting killed, but the evidence in all of these scenarios shows us that the folks on the other side are, simply put, wrong. The time to be civil has passed IMO. 

This would be a different story if the propagandist responded to logic and evidence when they were debated, but they do not -- they simply double down with the lies. Since they can’t be reasoned with, and in most cases (climate change, virus, gun rights) they will end up killing people, why should we be civil?

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by kermit

[11 HouseBZ]

1 minute ago, kermit said:

I struggle with this in our current era. Its not usually a matter of “could be wrong” these days, its an issue of how you deal with outright propaganda (and the people who reproduce propaganda). Five minutes of conservative cable news shows anyone with critical thinking skills that they are lying to promote their self interest, its not a matter of misunderstanding.

At this point in time should we respond to climate change deniers with patience and understanding? 

This would be a different story if the propagandist responded to logic and evidence when they were debated, but they do not. Since they can’t be reasoned with, and in most cases (climate change, virus, gun rights) they will end up killing people, why should we be civil?

 

I get those points, my focus is more in the smaller world issues and personal opinions. I said "could be wrong" mainly because I'm referring mainly to opinions in general that I haven't looked into and or can't verify a position. It wasn't for A2's comments in particular. 

As far as how to deal with the bigger issues you've brought up, I don't know. That's bigger than me to figure out. I would just like to help keep this forum civil. Disagreed, defend your position, challenge others on theirs. But we can do it as adults.

Now back to topic, I really hope everybody is making it through this alright.