LOCAL and Florida Politics

[jack]

19 hours ago, jrs2 said:

no you're not; rather, you are preventing a musical act from being discriminated against AFTER they signed a contract to perform, by a venue bending to political pressure, hiding behind the fact that they are not a government actor yet are in fact influenced by political pressure. 

And if I was the artist, I would sue for breach of contract and the damages would be lost revenue for the number of tickets sold, per show date, merchandise as well, and injury to reputation for being unfairly "blackballed" if a trend begins with other venues following suit (and any and all other remedies available).  

 There's only so much push The Left can do before major push back occurs. 

Nevermind. what I said doe not apply. I still don't like it but if you take the governments blood money, its on you to deal with the consequences. 

16 hours ago, aent said:

It does apply to private venues that accept public money. For example, if some of our TDT tax requesters or wanted enhancement for their non-profits get that money, they need to uphold the first amendment. If they do not take tax dollars, then it does not apply.

I take back what I said. I am always telling my kids to read the entire paragraph before answering a question. I need to take my own advice. 

Anyways boys and girls, this is why you don't take government money. It makes you a slave to the public interest. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by jack

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I've been seeing it said by right-wingers that venues can be sued for cancelling performance contracts because of the ignorance their heroes post on social media, and that the bill isn't necessary because of those repercussions built into civil law. 

So why did this Republican Fl Representative submit a bill to end the practice of cancelling performance contracts to begin with?

Because if there is a clause in the contract concerning PUBLIC CONDUCT as most of them probably do, that allows the venue to cancel the contract without fear of legal repercussion. 

Sample clause: https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/artists-conduct   

So this rube figures that if he sticks a bogus taxpayer funding qualifier in the bill and it passes, that will end the practice of cancelling shows by scum like Ted Nugent (who once called President Obama a mongrel) because many businesses, especially entertainment venues, have received some form of taxpayer funding during their startup in the form of small business grants or loans, etc. If this bill passes, the state will in effect, be denying businesses the right to enforce public behavior clauses in their contracts. 

IOW, typical underhanded, backdoor Republican tactics.

They've also been passing misinformation about Disney and supposed violations of Florida "building" codes, which is also baloney.

The only "codes" RCID allowed Disney to skirt were ZONING RULES that pertain to exterior ARCHITECTURAL AND COSMETIC features. The need for that in a THEME park, is obviously because of the need to follow a THEME. Therefore, RCID didn't impose the kind of design requirements on Disney that cities and municipalities impose on private developers. 

As far as building (engineering) standards are concerned, RCID never allowed Disney to cut themselves any slack whatsoever. I know this from personal experience because a company I worked for in the 90's built a lot of stuff on Disney property both in the parks and behind the scenes. Part of my job was handling permitting all over the state, including several at RCID.  I know for a fact they required the same level of structural engineering standards as Orlando, Orange County, Winter Park, Seminole County, etc, etc, etc. 

If anything, they go overboard. 

Anyone who believes a company like Disney would risk tens/hundreds of millions of dollars in personal injury and wrongful death lawsuits, not to mention the irreparable damage to their reputation and loss of visitors disasters would cause, all just to cut corners on construction, can't have much to speak of in the way of common sense.

So that whole business about how "The left believes because Disney is pushing their message, they should not have to comply with Florida's building code and other laws in the state of Florida, that Universal and every other corporation in the state of Florida has to follow..." is just more of the usual right-wing nonsense, propaganda and self-serving revisionism. 

Aka lies. 

Amazing how those who spout that kind of dishonesty are the same ones who have the gall to spout stuff like "If we're banning misinformation, remember, you are the ones who need to be banned, because you keep spewing literal, verifiable lies."

Trumper zombie pots love to falsely accuse the kettles of having the same finish they themselves have. 

Good thing I've spent so much of the past 20+ years dealing with dishonest right-wingers online so that I can spot their sneaky little tricks. 

 

[aent]

1 hour ago, jack said:

Nevermind. what I said doe not apply. I still don't like it but if you take the governments blood money, its on you to deal with the consequences. 

I take back what I said. I am always telling my kids to read the entire paragraph before answering a question. I need to take my own advice. 

Anyways boys and girls, this is why you don't take government money. It makes you a slave to the public interest. 

Very true, much respect, much appreciated! 

 

12 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I've been seeing it said by right-wingers that venues can be sued for cancelling performance contracts because of the ignorance their heroes post on social media, and that the bill isn't necessary because of those repercussions built into civil law. 

So why did this Republican Fl Representative submit a bill to end the practice of cancelling performance contracts to begin with?

Because if there is a clause in the contract concerning PUBLIC CONDUCT as most of them probably do, that allows the venue to cancel the contract without fear of legal repercussion. 

Sample clause: https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/artists-conduct   

So this rube figures that if he sticks a bogus taxpayer funding qualifier in the bill and it passes, that will end the practice of cancelling shows by scum like Ted Nugent (who once called President Obama a mongrel) because many businesses, especially entertainment venues, have received some form of taxpayer funding during their startup in the form of small business grants or loans, etc. If this bill passes, the state will in effect, be denying businesses the right to enforce public behavior clauses in their contracts. 

IOW, typical underhanded, backdoor Republican tactics.

They've also been passing misinformation about Disney and supposed violations of Florida "building" codes, which is also baloney.

The only "codes" RCID allowed Disney to skirt were ZONING RULES that pertain to exterior ARCHITECTURAL AND COSMETIC features. The need for that in a THEME park, is obviously because of the need to follow a THEME. Therefore, RCID didn't impose the kind of design requirements on Disney that cities and municipalities impose on private developers. 

As far as building (engineering) standards are concerned, RCID never allowed Disney to cut themselves any slack whatsoever. I know this from personal experience because a company I worked for in the 90's built a lot of stuff on Disney property both in the parks and behind the scenes. Part of my job was handling permitting all over the state, including several at RCID.  I know for a fact they required the same level of structural engineering standards as Orlando, Orange County, Winter Park, Seminole County, etc, etc, etc. 

If anything, they go overboard. 

Anyone who believes a company like Disney would risk tens/hundreds of millions of dollars in personal injury and wrongful death lawsuits, not to mention the irreparable damage to their reputation and loss of visitors disasters would cause, all just to cut corners on construction, can't have much to speak of in the way of common sense.

So that whole business about how "The left believes because Disney is pushing their message, they should not have to comply with Florida's building code and other laws in the state of Florida, that Universal and every other corporation in the state of Florida has to follow..." is just more of the usual right-wing nonsense, propaganda and self-serving revisionism. 

Aka lies. 

Amazing how those who spout that kind of dishonesty are the same ones who have the gall to spout stuff like "If we're banning misinformation, remember, you are the ones who need to be banned, because you keep spewing literal, verifiable lies."

Trumper zombie pots love to falsely accuse the kettles of having the same finish they themselves have. 

Good thing I've spent so much of the past 20+ years dealing with dishonest right-wingers online so that I can spot their sneaky little tricks. 

The bill is necessary because that only stops them from cancelling them after the fact. As it is, without this bill, there is nothing stopping a venue from taking $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer dollars, and then going and using it as a marketing venue for Democrats, and not allowing any Republicans inside. I, along with tons of other taxpayers, are pissed that this is happening. While I personally don't think we should ever be funding venues, at the very least, if we're going to be handing money over, it needs to be open to all sides, political views, sexualities, races, etc on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms. I know, I understand the left is very pro discrimination, as long as its a group they don't like, but government funds should follow that basic standard.

While Disney may "go overboard" on their building standards, being exempt and not having to comply with the basics still provides an advantage to them because of compliance costs. Their competitors have wanted this advantage as well, and we've denied it to them. You claim they need the exemption because of their theming, and that is the only area they take advantage of it (of course ignoring the tax savings as well), but why is their competition like Universal, SeaWorld, and Fun Spot unable to get the same district setup? In what world is that fair?

Again, you say "The only "codes" RCID allowed Disney to skirt were ZONING RULES that pertain to exterior ARCHITECTURAL AND COSMETIC features. The need for that in a THEME park, is obviously because of the need to follow a THEME. Therefore, RCID didn't impose the kind of design requirements on Disney that cities and municipalities impose on private developers. " WHY DOES DISNEY NEED TO SKIRT THOSE CODES WHEN UNIVERSAL DOESN'T?

The Democrats are literally trying to get the Republican candidate off of the ballot so they are the only ones listed on the ballot in the upcoming election, talk about dishonest people with sneaky tricks.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, aent said:

Very true, much respect, much appreciated! 

 

The bill is necessary because that only stops them from cancelling them after the fact. As it is, without this bill, there is nothing stopping a venue from taking $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer dollars, and then going and using it as a marketing venue for Democrats, and not allowing any Republicans inside. I, along with tons of other taxpayers, are pissed that this is happening. While I personally don't think we should ever be funding venues, at the very least, if we're going to be handing money over, it needs to be open to all sides, political views, sexualities, races, etc on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms. I know, I understand the left is very pro discrimination, as long as its a group they don't like, but government funds should follow that basic standard.

While Disney may "go overboard" on their building standards, being exempt and not having to comply with the basics still provides an advantage to them because of compliance costs. Their competitors have wanted this advantage as well, and we've denied it to them. You claim they need the exemption because of their theming, and that is the only area they take advantage of it (of course ignoring the tax savings as well), but why is their competition like Universal, SeaWorld, and Fun Spot unable to get the same district setup? In what world is that fair?

Again, you say "The only "codes" RCID allowed Disney to skirt were ZONING RULES that pertain to exterior ARCHITECTURAL AND COSMETIC features. The need for that in a THEME park, is obviously because of the need to follow a THEME. Therefore, RCID didn't impose the kind of design requirements on Disney that cities and municipalities impose on private developers. " WHY DOES DISNEY NEED TO SKIRT THOSE CODES WHEN UNIVERSAL DOESN'T?

The Democrats are literally trying to get the Republican candidate off of the ballot so they are the only ones listed on the ballot in the upcoming election, talk about dishonest people with sneaky tricks.

Uncle Vlad has a lot to say about what they're doing to Daddy Donald.  It's hilarious, really. 

So, Russia gets black balled by the US under Obama (a Kenyan, per Hillary Clinton and MSNBC), and then Hillary and the corrupt DOJ pushes Russian Collusion with her comrades, namely, Schiff Stain, to paint Russia as the evil doers and Trump as their beneficiary- to keep the GOOD GUYS (the Leftist Democrat Communists) from continuing what that anti-American grass roots community organizing Saul Alinsky-ite started.

Let's think about this...Trump told Paris to stick it and that whole Rothchild $$$ embezzlement scheme of the Toilet-Bowl Warming money grab grift started by Gore, a loser with a "Karen" hot wife put in her place by Dee Snyder.  The Leftists in Kissimmee said "no way, Mr. President, we're gonna still give our local money to Paris, our Lords & Saviors!"  So, Kissimmee ends up with sh!t in one hand, asking "et tu, Brute, et tu?"  Okay enough on that.

Then, get this, Vlad is a nationalist who took their currency off of the Euro either before or right after the initiation of the Brexit, to CNN's dismay.  He gave them the finger.  Good for him.  But, our Dept. of State, bedfellows to the NATO cabal that we have been funding for two generations, concocts this plan to kill two birds with one stone (nice plan; no evidence).  I said this four years ago and the Leftists laughed.  Now, Russia Russia Russia has been proven false, something that EVERYBODY already knew.

Nevertheless, now, we see direct ties between that UnderArmour hoodie wearing charlatan getting the "we stand with Ukraine" applause from Pelosi and that ilk, and the Bidens, and they had ties to the Bidens all along...back to his VP daze (I mean days).  And who are we supporting in that debacle?  Ukraine.  Why?  Oh, that, and, because Vlad is a nationalist (or anti-Communist)- he may be ex-KGB, but he ain't a Commie beotch, unlike many who have infiltrated this country in the media and government and the college system; all enemies of the State.

Trump's major sin is that he's a nationalist.  Does anyone even know what that means?  I'll tell you what it means:  strong US economy and a secure border so we don't become like Greece and Europe.  But that is a sin to the Communists because they believe in a "global equity" thing, and they have no allegiance to country- only to the system.  Hence why Democrats have a disdain for the US Constitution and the American flag.  Now, you're labeled a domestic terrorist for donning a US Flag.  Well, to a Communist trying to occupy your country, I guess that would be true; you would be considered a terrorist to their takeover plans. 

While people are focused on tranny's, grooming 3rd Graders in public schools and defending a corporation which supports this, defunding the police, white shaming, and indicting a former President and current political opponent to the Communists in the US, this is the state of world affairs.  Here's a fun chart:

Liberalism = Communism

Progressivism = Communism

Leftism = Communism

Democratic Party (as far back as even before they were getting funded by the Communists which prompted Tricky Dicky to spy on them = Communists.  (it's funny, the media was like "he lied to us" instead of like "um, the Democrats are being bankrolled by The Communist Party?"

This post will keep all the Leftists busy.  Enjoy.

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, aent said:

The bill is necessary because that only stops them from cancelling them after the fact. As it is, without this bill, there is nothing stopping a venue from taking $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer dollars, and then going and using it as a marketing venue for Democrats, and not allowing any Republicans inside. I, along with tons of other taxpayers, are pissed that this is happening. While I personally don't think we should ever be funding venues, at the very least, if we're going to be handing money over, it needs to be open to all sides, political views, sexualities, races, etc on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms. I know, I understand the left is very pro discrimination, as long as its a group they don't like, but government funds should follow that basic standard.

One billion dollars??????? 

I want some of what you're smoking!!!! 

I would appreciate it if you would post some EXAMPLES, with links, to exactly what and which taxpayer funding these venues are availing themselves of that amount to ONE BILLION DOLLARS. 

Because it is my understanding that this bill is aimed at smaller venues, where the likes of Ted Nugent and some of these other washed up, loud mouth, has been kooks tend to perform, and who've gotten funding in the form of subsidized business loans or grants, etc. 

But I still don't see how or why it has anything to do with them being allowed to enforce a LEGAL and VOLUNTARILY SIGNED clause in a contract. 

If some right-wing jerk makes embarrassing public comments prior to the performance date, I don't see how any ridiculous Republican law can prevent the venue from enforcing the terms of a valid, legal contract.

1 hour ago, aent said:

While Disney may "go overboard" on their building standards, being exempt and not having to comply with the basics still provides an advantage to them because of compliance costs. Their competitors have wanted this advantage as well, and we've denied it to them. You claim they need the exemption because of their theming, and that is the only area they take advantage of it (of course ignoring the tax savings as well), but why is their competition like Universal, SeaWorld, and Fun Spot unable to get the same district setup? In what world is that fair?

Exactly WHAT AND WHICH "basics" does Disney NOT comply with? 

Please list them and be specific. TIA.

To my personal memories of my dealings with them, RCID had the same permitting standards as any other local government plans review dept. and they also denied or kicked back permit applications for designs that they saw problems with.  They were no rubber stamp for Disney.

Also, I would suggest to both you and Disney's competitors, that if it weren't for Disney coming to Central Florida in the late 60's, decades before any of them, paving their way and being granted the special taxing district status they received from Tallahassee, those competitors would not even exist today. 

Universal, Sea World and I-Drive would likely still be cow pastures, or maybe residential neighborhoods at best. 

So all this mewling and puling and bleating about how it's just not fair!!!!   is a lot of sour grapes by some second rate attractions who exist in Disney's shadow. 

1 hour ago, aent said:

Again, you say "The only "codes" RCID allowed Disney to skirt were ZONING RULES that pertain to exterior ARCHITECTURAL AND COSMETIC features. The need for that in a THEME park, is obviously because of the need to follow a THEME. Therefore, RCID didn't impose the kind of design requirements on Disney that cities and municipalities impose on private developers. " WHY DOES DISNEY NEED TO SKIRT THOSE CODES WHEN UNIVERSAL DOESN'T?

Once again, I'd like for you to PROVIDE EXAMPLES of Universal Studios being denied permitting and zoning approval for the design, engineering, appearance, height, exterior materials, location, usage, etc, etc of any structure ever constructed on their property or inside their park, that was of a similar design that Disney was able to get away with. 

1 hour ago, aent said:

The Democrats are literally trying to get the Republican candidate off of the ballot so they are the only ones listed on the ballot in the upcoming election, talk about dishonest people with sneaky tricks.

Puh - lease.  

 

 

[JFW657]

Vladimir Putin is a monster who kills women and children with no regard whatsoever in his quest to retake Ukraine and then, he hopes, with the help of Trump taking the US out of NATO, annex the rest of Europe.

Now Trump has the low forehead Republican rank & file rubes toting Putin's water on their knees and kissing his feet, all while calling Democrats communists.

You seriously just cannot make this stuff up.  

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Uncle Vlad has a lot to say about what they're doing to Daddy Donald.  It's hilarious, really. 

So, Russia gets black balled by the US under Obama (a Kenyan, per Hillary Clinton and MSNBC), and then Hillary and the corrupt DOJ pushes Russian Collusion with her comrades, namely, Schiff Stain, to paint Russia as the evil doers and Trump as their beneficiary- to keep the GOOD GUYS (the Leftist Democrat Communists) from continuing what that anti-American grass roots community organizing Saul Alinsky-ite started.

Let's think about this...Trump told Paris to stick it and that whole Rothchild $$$ embezzlement scheme of the Toilet-Bowl Warming money grab grift started by Gore, a loser with a "Karen" hot wife put in her place by Dee Snyder.  The Leftists in Kissimmee said "no way, Mr. President, we're gonna still give our local money to Paris, our Lords & Saviors!"  So, Kissimmee ends up with sh!t in one hand, asking "et tu, Brute, et tu?"  Okay enough on that.

Then, get this, Vlad is a nationalist who took their currency off of the Euro either before or right after the initiation of the Brexit, to CNN's dismay.  He gave them the finger.  Good for him.  But, our Dept. of State, bedfellows to the NATO cabal that we have been funding for two generations, concocts this plan to kill two birds with one stone (nice plan; no evidence).  I said this four years ago and the Leftists laughed.  Now, Russia Russia Russia has been proven false, something that EVERYBODY already knew.

Nevertheless, now, we see direct ties between that UnderArmour hoodie wearing charlatan getting the "we stand with Ukraine" applause from Pelosi and that ilk, and the Bidens, and they had ties to the Bidens all along...back to his VP daze (I mean days).  And who are we supporting in that debacle?  Ukraine.  Why?  Oh, that, and, because Vlad is a nationalist (or anti-Communist)- he may be ex-KGB, but he ain't a Commie beotch, unlike many who have infiltrated this country in the media and government and the college system; all enemies of the State.

Trump's major sin is that he's a nationalist.  Does anyone even know what that means?  I'll tell you what it means:  strong US economy and a secure border so we don't become like Greece and Europe.  But that is a sin to the Communists because they believe in a "global equity" thing, and they have no allegiance to country- only to the system.  Hence why Democrats have a disdain for the US Constitution and the American flag.  Now, you're labeled a domestic terrorist for donning a US Flag.  Well, to a Communist trying to occupy your country, I guess that would be true; you would be considered a terrorist to their takeover plans. 

While people are focused on tranny's, grooming 3rd Graders in public schools and defending a corporation which supports this, defunding the police, white shaming, and indicting a former President and current political opponent to the Communists in the US, this is the state of world affairs.  Here's a fun chart:

Liberalism = Communism

Progressivism = Communism

Leftism = Communism

Democratic Party (as far back as even before they were getting funded by the Communists which prompted Tricky Dicky to spy on them = Communists.  (it's funny, the media was like "he lied to us" instead of like "um, the Democrats are being bankrolled by The Communist Party?"

This post will keep all the Leftists busy.  Enjoy.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by JFW657

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Vladimir Putin is a monster who kills women and children with no regard whatsoever in his quest to retake Ukraine and then, he hoped, with the help of Trump taking the US out of NATO, annex the rest of Europe.

Now Trump has the low forehead Republican rank & file rubes toting Putin's water on their knees and kissing his feet, all while calling Democrats communists.

You seriously just cannot make this stuff up.  

 

Nah, you don't have to make it up, because I just said it and I'll say it again:  Democrats are Communists hiding behind political correctness to shame the population to inch ever so left until it's too late.  They already have a bulk of the MSM, the colleges, etc. And if you read the Communist Manifesto from a hundred years ago, it clearly states that to take over a country, you infiltrate the media and colleges.  I knew about this back when NWO Bush was president.  Just because the Leftist media doesn't call themselves out doesn't mean that's not what they are.  I mean, does Jason Vorhees, with hockey mask on, have to proclaim "yes, indeed I am The Jason spoken of" for people to be like "holy sh!t, there's Jason with a machete...run!"?  C'mon.  Do you really need a signed confession from the criminal to acknowledge that he or she is in fact the criminal when all the evidence points to it?

If you're against nationalism, you are un-American.  If you do it only because you hate the other party, you are still un-American, and a Communist, especially when the hate comes from The Left...which...hello?...is where the Communist ideology comes from.  Duh?

And, Hillary started it as we all know.  So before you complain about Daddy calling Obama a mongrel or whatever, look no further than C.H.  All He had to do was call him a naturalized citizen unqualified to become president per The Constitution.  Leave it to The Democratic Communist Party to choose a non-American-born to run for president; anything to win.  Talk about the biggest fraud perpetrated upon the American people.  Oh, wait, we're talking about Leftist Communists...the notion of "American" means nothing to them.  This podcast has the MSNBC footage that has Harold Ford stumped and shocked:

 

[jrs2]

ROTFL!

Have I driven you crazy yet, @JFW657?

LOL.  There's only two things left in this world that you can always count on, the prurient nature of porn, and The Lord.  One difference between the two is that bad porn wastes your time and lets you down; The Lord never does.

And I've got plenty more... but I'm getting busy again, so...

I'm going to leave you with this tidbit of good cheer about partying too much from a band you are familiar with, Megadeth. 

 

[JFW657]

Attempts to make society more decent and civilized, though admittedly pushed a little too far sometimes, are now being painted by the rabid right as a Communist plot?

Deranged nonsense from TrumPutin bootlickers calling OTHERS Communists????

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by JFW657

[jrs2]

13 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Attempts to make society more decent and civilized, though admittedly pushed a little too far sometimes, are now being painted by the rabid right as a Communist plot?

Deranged nonsense from TrumPutin bootlickers are calling OTHERS Communists????

 

Mustaine can be a little bit pretentious, so I'll leave you with a golden clip of my bruddah from another muddah, Bon Scott:

 

[Ivanhoe]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Mustaine can be a little bit pretentious, so I'll leave you with a golden clip of my bruddah from another muddah, Bon Scott:

 

I need a path into your crazy, your trash is worthy enough to exploit on my media platforms. 

[Ivanhoe]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

One billion dollars??????? 

I want some of what you're smoking!!!! 

I would appreciate it if you would post some EXAMPLES, with links, to exactly what and which taxpayer funding these venues are availing themselves of that amount to ONE BILLION DOLLARS. 

Because it is my understanding that this bill is aimed at smaller venues, where the likes of Ted Nugent and some of these other washed up, loud mouth, has been kooks tend to perform, and who've gotten funding in the form of subsidized business loans or grants, etc. 

But I still don't see how or why it has anything to do with them being allowed to enforce a LEGAL and VOLUNTARILY SIGNED clause in a contract. 

If some right-wing jerk makes embarrassing public comments prior to the performance date, I don't see how any ridiculous Republican law can prevent the venue from enforcing the terms of a valid, legal contract.

Exactly WHAT AND WHICH "basics" does Disney NOT comply with? 

Please list them and be specific. TIA.

To my personal memories of my dealings with them, RCID had the same permitting standards as any other local government plans review dept. and they also denied or kicked back permit applications for designs that they saw problems with.  They were no rubber stamp for Disney.

Also, I would suggest to both you and Disney's competitors, that if it weren't for Disney coming to Central Florida in the late 60's, decades before any of them, paving their way and being granted the special taxing district status they received from Tallahassee, those competitors would not even exist today. 

Universal, Sea World and I-Drive would likely still be cow pastures, or maybe residential neighborhoods at best. 

So all this mewling and puling and bleating about how it's just not fair!!!!   is a lot of sour grapes by some second rate attractions who exist in Disney's shadow. 

Once again, I'd like for you to PROVIDE EXAMPLES of Universal Studios being denied permitting and zoning approval for the design, engineering, appearance, height, exterior materials, location, usage, etc, etc of any structure ever constructed on their property or inside their park, that was of a similar design that Disney was able to get away with. 

Puh - lease.  

 

 

I’ve followed this forum mostly on the sidelines and have noticed that not only does aent not cite sources, they typically just tell unsubstantiated claims and make proclaiming statements (aka someone is a liar liar tooth on fire).

Edited September 13, 2023 by Ivanhoe

[JFW657]

13 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

I’ve followed this forum mostly on the sidelines and have noticed that not only does aent not cite sources, they typically just tell unsubstantiated claims and make proclaiming statements (aka someone is a liar liar tooth on fire).

I always heard it was pants on fire. 

Oh well, either way.  

I try to post links to sources whenever applicable.   

[Ivanhoe]

7 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I always heard it was pants on fire. 

Oh well, either way.  

I try to post links to sources whenever applicable.   

Oh well - you ain’t me. 

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

I need a path into your crazy, your trash is worthy enough to exploit on my media platforms. 

 

[aent]

On 9/13/2023 at 2:29 PM, JFW657 said:

One billion dollars??????? 

I want some of what you're smoking!!!! 

I would appreciate it if you would post some EXAMPLES, with links, to exactly what and which taxpayer funding these venues are availing themselves of that amount to ONE BILLION DOLLARS. 

Because it is my understanding that this bill is aimed at smaller venues, where the likes of Ted Nugent and some of these other washed up, loud mouth, has been kooks tend to perform, and who've gotten funding in the form of subsidized business loans or grants, etc. 

This bill is not restricted to small venues, or private venues. Obviously no small venue is getting that amount of money, but several venues have received HUGE amounts of money that are privately owned, such as Hard Rock Stadium.

 

On 9/13/2023 at 2:29 PM, JFW657 said:

But I still don't see how or why it has anything to do with them being allowed to enforce a LEGAL and VOLUNTARILY SIGNED clause in a contract. 

If some right-wing jerk makes embarrassing public comments prior to the performance date, I don't see how any ridiculous Republican law can prevent the venue from enforcing the terms of a valid, legal contract.

I never once said a contract with the venue can't be enforced.... but this likely makes any contract where the "embarrassing public comments" being related to a political issue illegal, because it would violate this law, if this law were to pass.

 

On 9/13/2023 at 2:29 PM, JFW657 said:

Also, I would suggest to both you and Disney's competitors, that if it weren't for Disney coming to Central Florida in the late 60's, decades before any of them, paving their way and being granted the special taxing district status they received from Tallahassee, those competitors would not even exist today. 

Universal, Sea World and I-Drive would likely still be cow pastures, or maybe residential neighborhoods at best. 

So all this mewling and puling and bleating about how it's just not fair!!!!   is a lot of sour grapes by some second rate attractions who exist in Disney's shadow. 

Sure, Disney brought a very successful theme park to Florida before anyone else and put Orlando on the map, I'm not denying that. That does not make it fair that Universal and Sea World and Fun Spot can't get the special taxing district status that Disney got. Its not normal that the "first comer" doesn't have to pay taxes and go through normal approval processes, its a very weird benefit. 

 

On 9/13/2023 at 2:29 PM, JFW657 said:

Once again, I'd like for you to PROVIDE EXAMPLES of Universal Studios being denied permitting and zoning approval for the design, engineering, appearance, height, exterior materials, location, usage, etc, etc of any structure ever constructed on their property or inside their park, that was of a similar design that Disney was able to get away with. 

I could provide you with the city's sending back permits to Universal for revision, but you already made the claim RCID has done that to Disney, so whats the point? The difference is RCID was 100% controlled by Disney, the City of Orlando and Orange County are NOT 100% controlled by the other theme parks. Universal has political power as well, they manage to push things through, but not as easily as Disney.... who only has to push it through.... themselves.

Smaller, potentially new players in the market have failed due to permitting and zoning approvals in the area multiple times. The Orlando Thrill Park got shut down in zoning by groups believed to be organized by Universal and Disney, who did not want that project in the area. Skyplex, while it did eventually get approved, had to spend millions to get through the approval process that never would have happened if they had their own RCID... and it was to the point where they didn't have money to build anything they got approval for.

Again, if Orange County is fully able to approve the plans for other theme parks without issue, then why does Disney need RCID to approve their plans instead of the county? Your original claim was the level of theming made it impractical for the county to need to approve it, but now its completely fine for the competition.

On 9/13/2023 at 2:29 PM, JFW657 said:

So all this mewling and puling and bleating about how it's just not fair!!!!   is a lot of sour grapes by some second rate attractions who exist in Disney's shadow. 

No, we just want equal rules for everybody, fairness. Just because Disney is the worldwide theme park leader and the undisputed innovator in the category doesn't mean they should have a monopoly, and huge tax benefits for it. Disney isn't going to hurt one bit by having to follow the same rules as Universal, they'll still be first rate, except they'll be paying more local taxes. I just want Disney to pay their fair share. Although I will say Universal's modern attractions aren't second rate, in the last decade they've been outperforming Disney on pretty much all of their new stuff, but Disney has the legacy.

I don't dislike Disney, in fact, I'm a Disney fan and appreciate all they've done for Orlando. I just want things to be fair. DeSantis doesn't dislike Disney either, he literally got married at Disney World.

22 hours ago, Ivanhoe said:

I’ve followed this forum mostly on the sidelines and have noticed that not only does aent not cite sources, they typically just tell unsubstantiated claims and make proclaiming statements (aka someone is a liar liar tooth on fire).

Nobodys citing sources here on either side... no one once mentioned that this was only for taxpayer funded venues until me, so here's the actual bill text if you're doubting that:

https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h0015__.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0015&Session=2024

 

[JFW657]

Right-wing hypocrisy....

A) Concert venue owners nullify performance contracts due to performers' public social/political comments they find objectionable.

Right-wingers ----->   

B) The Republican Governor of Florida nullifies a special taxing district contract with Disney due to their public social/political comments he finds objectionable.

Right-wingers ----->     

[aent]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Right-wing hypocrisy....

A) Concert venue owners nullify performance contracts due to performers' public social/political comments they find objectionable.

Right-wingers ----->   

B) The Republican Governor of Florida nullifies a special taxing district contract with Disney due to their public social/political comments he finds objectionable.

Right-wingers ----->     

You don't know what hypocrisy means, Let me make it super simple for you:

Take tax dollars/special exclusive tax breaks not available to everyone? You must support the first amendment

Don't take tax dollars? Do whatever you want, its nobody's business but your own.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, aent said:

This bill is not restricted to small venues, or private venues. Obviously no small venue is getting that amount of money, but several venues have received HUGE amounts of money that are privately owned, such as Hard Rock Stadium.

Moot point. The kinds of lowlifes who make the kinds of hate-mongering bigoted comments that get their contracts nullified rarely ever play at those large venues. 

3 hours ago, aent said:

I never once said a contract with the venue can't be enforced.... but this likely makes any contract where the "embarrassing public comments" being related to a political issue illegal, because it would violate this law, if this law were to pass.

I don't think laws can do what this law is trying to do anyway, because it infringes on the civil rights of the venues. And since hate speech is not protected by the 1st amendment, the rights of the loud mouthed performers is not infringed on.

3 hours ago, aent said:

Sure, Disney brought a very successful theme park to Florida before anyone else and put Orlando on the map, I'm not denying that. That does not make it fair that Universal and Sea World and Fun Spot can't get the special taxing district status that Disney got. Its not normal that the "first comer" doesn't have to pay taxes and go through normal approval processes, its a very weird benefit. 

That is neither here nor there. The state and Disney entered into a legal, contractual relationship, the type of which other entities have also been the beneficiaries of. Just because other theme parks came along too late and couldn't get one themselves, is just TFB. That does not give Little Mussolini the right to come along and undo it as part of a political retaliation publicity stunt. 

3 hours ago, aent said:

I could provide you with the city's sending back permits to Universal for revision, but you already made the claim RCID has done that to Disney, so whats the point? The difference is RCID was 100% controlled by Disney, the City of Orlando and Orange County are NOT 100% controlled by the other theme parks. Universal has political power as well, they manage to push things through, but not as easily as Disney.... who only has to push it through.... themselves.

So what? EVERY permitting dept in every city and county everywhere in the US kicks back plans for revision. It's part of the system. But as I said, Disney's tourist and entertainment division exercised no control over RCID. They are smart enough to know the kind of trouble that could lead to. Did it save them some money? Most likely. Were Universal and others envious and butthurt about it? Probably. But none of that has anything to do with the legality of Little Mussolini's cultural war tactics he used to punish them for not bending their knee to him.

3 hours ago, aent said:

Smaller, potentially new players in the market have failed due to permitting and zoning approvals in the area multiple times. The Orlando Thrill Park got shut down in zoning by groups believed to be organized by Universal and Disney, who did not want that project in the area. Skyplex, while it did eventually get approved, had to spend millions to get through the approval process that never would have happened if they had their own RCID... and it was to the point where they didn't have money to build anything they got approval for.

Again.... too bad, so sad. That's the way the game is played everywhere in every city and town in America. 

What's really galling here, is that right-wingers are suddenly crying about something they've never given a rat's ass about before....

Fairness

3 hours ago, aent said:

Again, if Orange County is fully able to approve the plans for other theme parks without issue, then why does Disney need RCID to approve their plans instead of the county? Your original claim was the level of theming made it impractical for the county to need to approve it, but now its completely fine for the competition.

Disney never "needed" RCID for permitting. They saw it as advantageous to operating all services including security, fire protection, water and sewage etc, etc, etc. They were able to convince the Governor of the state that it would be advantageous to Florida and Orange County as well, because they wouldn't have to provide those services and pay the associated costs. Very simple, really. Doesn't take a Master's Degree in Public Policy to understand it. 

And you are wrong about my comments re: themed buildings making it impractical etc, etc. What I said was, the reason why RCID cuts Disney slack in the kind of zoning issues that downtown Orlando builders have to adhere to, is because they have special requirements. And I know for a fact that Orange County doesn't hit Universal with zoning and design restrictions either, for the same reason. The nature of their business requires them to build very outlandish looking structures that would never meet zoning requirements outside their parks.

If Orange County held Universal to the same zoning requirements as everyone else, Universal Studios would look like Baldwin Park.

3 hours ago, aent said:

No, we just want equal rules for everybody, fairness. Just because Disney is the worldwide theme park leader and the undisputed innovator in the category doesn't mean they should have a monopoly, and huge tax benefits for it. Disney isn't going to hurt one bit by having to follow the same rules as Universal, they'll still be first rate, except they'll be paying more local taxes. I just want Disney to pay their fair share. Although I will say Universal's modern attractions aren't second rate, in the last decade they've been outperforming Disney on pretty much all of their new stuff, but Disney has the legacy.

3 hours ago, aent said:

 

 

Baloney. 

And Disney pays astronomical sums in taxes already.

Once again, I've got to laugh at conservatives suddenly complaining because someone's taxes aren't high enough. 

That and the whole "fairness" ruse in one post is too much!!!!  

3 hours ago, aent said:

 I don't dislike Disney, in fact, I'm a Disney fan and appreciate all they've done for Orlando. I just want things to be fair. DeSantis doesn't dislike Disney either, he literally got married at Disney World.

No, you just want them to stop supporting gay issues.

Maybe replace "Gay Days" with "Gun Days". 

Or maybe "Hate Days". 

Or "Conservative Days"

"Trump Days".  

3 hours ago, aent said:

Nobodys citing sources here on either side... no one once mentioned that this was only for taxpayer funded venues until me, so here's the actual bill text if you're doubting that:

https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=_h0015__.docx&DocumentType=Bill&BillNumber=0015&Session=2024

I read the full text of the bill long before I posted it here. They read it on the local TV news where I first saw it reported, then I posted about it on another political forum and copy/pasted the text AND a link. So I am familiar with it. The thing is, that I believe putting that qualifier in the bill is a sleazy, back-handed way of getting them all, because they've probably all accepted tax payer funded assistance before. 

[JFW657]

39 minutes ago, aent said:

You don't know what hypocrisy means, Let me make it super simple for you:

Take tax dollars/special exclusive tax breaks not available to everyone? You must support the first amendment

Don't take tax dollars? Do whatever you want, its nobody's business but your own.

None of that gibberish has anything to do with the definition of hypocrisy and hate speech is not protected by the first amendment.

Let me make it super simple for you:

If right-wing has-been performers don't want to have their performances cancelled, just have them stop posting ugly, inflammatory, bigoted jagazz remarks on social media and they'll be fine.  

[aent]

46 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Moot point. The kinds of lowlifes who make the kinds of hate-mongering bigoted comments that get their contracts nullified rarely ever play at those large venues. 

Its not a moot point just because this law is clearly to protect rights under rare circumstances. 

 

50 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I don't think laws can do what this law is trying to do anyway, because it infringes on the civil rights of the venues. And since hate speech is not protected by the 1st amendment, the rights of the loud mouthed performers is not infringed on.

The law just makes it that they give up a right in exchange for money. Its been well established you can give up your rights in exchange for money. The venue is still free to NOT TAKE TAX DOLLARS AND CANCEL WHOEVER THEY WANT.

Also, hate speech is generally regarded as specifically being protected by the first amendment. Why would we need the first if controversial speech isn't protected? Thats the whole point of the thing. The left seems super into exercising their first amendment right to hate speech whenever talking about those they disagree with, such as Trump. (And thats admittedly both sides taking advantage of that). Here's a source: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate

54 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

That is neither here nor there. The state and Disney entered into a legal, contractual relationship, the type of which other entities have also been the beneficiaries of. Just because other theme parks came along too late and couldn't get one themselves, is just TFB. That does not give Little Mussolini the right to come along and undo it as part of a political retaliation publicity stunt. 

Nobody has argued Disney and the state, in the past, were not allowed to give Disney extra special rights and tax exemptions... no doubt that happens all the time. But we've taken away tax exemptions given to people literally all the time. Bush gave everyone the Bush tax cuts.... people depended and relied on it... and then Obama took them away. Did Obama have a right to do that? Of course he did. DeSantis didn't single handedly remove Disney's special tax status, it went through the legislature to propose it, then he signed it into law. Now the law has been changed so Disney legally cannot get their special tax status they had before, nobody can, that is now illegal because of the new law. Of course, if a legislature and future governor sign a new law creating that status again, it would become legal again. This is how the law works. Basic civics.

 

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Baloney. 

And Disney pays astronomical sums in taxes already.

Once again, I've got to laugh at conservatives suddenly complaining because someone's taxes aren't high enough. 

I agree Disney pays a lot of taxes, but given their assets, its way less then their competition. I'd be pro lowering EVERYONE's taxes. Hell, the new board did lower the taxes in the district already.

I'm NOT saying their taxes aren't heigh enough. I'm saying its NOT FAIR that they don't pay the same tax rate as their competition.

I was vocal on this forum too, especially during the Orlando City Soccer Stadium planning, that the churches, especially the church that refused to sell at the time to the stadium, really needs to pay its property taxes. All churches should. All nonprofits should. Hell, even though everyone on both sides seemed to support the property tax exemption for military in this state that was on the ballot a few years ago, but I was against that as well. Taxes should be fair. If we want it lower, lower it for everyone, lets not pick and choose winners and losers.

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

No, you just want them to stop supporting gay issues.

Maybe replace "Gay Days" with "Gun Days". 

Why would I want them to stop supporting gay issues? I'm gay, I've been to Disney gay days, I want that to continue. I just don't want the government teaching transgender issues to children without parents being involved, especially 3rd grade and under where we generally don't do any sex ed.

[JFW657]

11 hours ago, aent said:

Its not a moot point just because this law is clearly to protect rights under rare circumstances. 

 

The law just makes it that they give up a right in exchange for money. Its been well established you can give up your rights in exchange for money. The venue is still free to NOT TAKE TAX DOLLARS AND CANCEL WHOEVER THEY WANT.

Also, hate speech is generally regarded as specifically being protected by the first amendment. Why would we need the first if controversial speech isn't protected? Thats the whole point of the thing. The left seems super into exercising their first amendment right to hate speech whenever talking about those they disagree with, such as Trump. (And thats admittedly both sides taking advantage of that). Here's a source: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/intfreedom/hate

Nobody has argued Disney and the state, in the past, were not allowed to give Disney extra special rights and tax exemptions... no doubt that happens all the time. But we've taken away tax exemptions given to people literally all the time. Bush gave everyone the Bush tax cuts.... people depended and relied on it... and then Obama took them away. Did Obama have a right to do that? Of course he did. DeSantis didn't single handedly remove Disney's special tax status, it went through the legislature to propose it, then he signed it into law. Now the law has been changed so Disney legally cannot get their special tax status they had before, nobody can, that is now illegal because of the new law. Of course, if a legislature and future governor sign a new law creating that status again, it would become legal again. This is how the law works. Basic civics.

 

I agree Disney pays a lot of taxes, but given their assets, its way less then their competition. I'd be pro lowering EVERYONE's taxes. Hell, the new board did lower the taxes in the district already.

I'm NOT saying their taxes aren't heigh enough. I'm saying its NOT FAIR that they don't pay the same tax rate as their competition.

I was vocal on this forum too, especially during the Orlando City Soccer Stadium planning, that the churches, especially the church that refused to sell at the time to the stadium, really needs to pay its property taxes. All churches should. All nonprofits should. Hell, even though everyone on both sides seemed to support the property tax exemption for military in this state that was on the ballot a few years ago, but I was against that as well. Taxes should be fair. If we want it lower, lower it for everyone, lets not pick and choose winners and losers.

Why would I want them to stop supporting gay issues? I'm gay, I've been to Disney gay days, I want that to continue. I just don't want the government teaching transgender issues to children without parents being involved, especially 3rd grade and under where we generally don't do any sex ed.

What it all boils down to is that private venues have the right to dictate who they associate with, which in turn can be dictated by the views that someone has posted online.

The first amendment only protects us from the government telling us what can and cannot be said publicly.

Public behavior clauses in contracts are perfectly legal when voluntarily entered into. If a performer signs such a contract then knowingly posts offensive or inflammatory comments on social media, the venue has the right to cancel the performance. 

This bill is a publicity stunt masquerading as a piece of serious legislation which I hope will never see the light of day.

If it does, it will be interesting to see if Little Mussolini's hand-picked puppets on the Florida Supreme Court do his bidding and uphold it. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

What it all boils down to is that private venues have the right to dictate who they associate with, which in turn can be dictated by the views that someone has posted online.

The first amendment only protects us from the government telling us what can and cannot be said publicly.

Public behavior clauses in contracts are perfectly legal when voluntarily entered into. If a performer signs such a contract then knowingly posts offensive or inflammatory comments on social media, the venue has the right to cancel the performance. 

This bill is a publicity stunt masquerading as a piece of serious legislation which I hope will never see the light of day.

If it does, it will be interesting to see if Little Mussolini's hand-picked puppets on the Florida Supreme Court do his bidding and uphold it. 

No, that's not it at all.  I read that article about that Avondale Brewing Company cancellation from a few months back.  They were pressured by leftists to get him cancelled.  They had no choice for fear of ruining their "social credit score."  They make enough noise and threaten to boycott venues, the venues have to cater to them.  Tyranny of the minority to push their forced acceptance upon society- and the government pays for their psychosis.  

So don't paint it like Avondale wanted to boycott him or were offended just because he said there s no such thing as a tranny.  They should uphold the bill.  Why? Because it actually gets the venue off the hook when being pressured by a bunch of losers interfering with a business's right to operate.  Where's the protection for the venue from them?

So if they can't succeed in crashing a venue to keep, say Trump from speaking like they did in Chicago in 2016 at UIC, they now instead cry to the venue management and threaten to boycott them next time some coffee shop music playing band is on tour.  They'll probably take it a step further and pressure promoters as well from using that venue.  Tortious interference with business relations, anyone, from a name-less defendant?  The State BETTER step in and nip this in the bud.

If Springsteen can talk about how horrible the USA is, Nugent can say whatever he wants.  

Hate Vladimir Putin because you've got egg on your face.  But that ex-KGB agent is laughing at this country right now.  It would be like Rocky IV sans Rocky, where  you have Pee Wee Herman fighting Ivan Drago, where the only thing he can out-perform him in is projectile public fapping.  Good thing they still can't track the F-22 Raptor. 

Let's trade Putin for the Tranny WNBA player and leave the decorated Marine to rot.    

And you have the audacity to call conservatives the thugs.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

No, that's not it at all.  I read that article about that Avondale Brewing Company cancellation from a few months back.  They were pressured by leftists to get him cancelled.  They had no choice for fear of ruining their "social credit score."  They make enough noise and threaten to boycott venues, the venues have to cater to them.  Tyranny of the minority to push their forced acceptance upon society- and the government pays for their psychosis.  

Show me some statistical data to back up your claim that people who find bigoted comments offensive are a minority. 

Here's a bit of data from conservative leaning Pew Research that says just the opposite....

 

According to Pew, by a margin of 58% to 38%, people who think like you are the ones in the minority. 

So apparently you just pulled that out of your butt.  

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

So don't paint it like Avondale wanted to boycott him or were offended just because he said there s no such thing as a tranny.  They should uphold the bill.  Why? Because it actually gets the venue off the hook when being pressured by a bunch of losers interfering with a business's right to operate.  Where's the protection for the venue from them?

Just like a rightie to assume everybody else is as soulless and lacking in conscience as they are, and that money rules every decision.  

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

So if they can't succeed in crashing a venue to keep, say Trump from speaking like they did in Chicago in 2016 at UIC, they now instead cry to the venue management and threaten to boycott them next time some coffee shop music playing band is on tour.  They'll probably take it a step further and pressure promoters as well from using that venue.  Tortious interference with business relations, anyone, from a name-less defendant?  The State BETTER step in and nip this in the bud.

How was that last case of BUD LIGHT you and your rightie pals enjoyed recently?  

How many more you buying this weekend for your weekly Trumper Hypocrite Party?   

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

If Springsteen can talk about how horrible the USA is, Nugent can say whatever he wants.  

So says the Putin fanboy who talks about how horrible the same half of America is that Ted "Crap Drawers Draft Dodger" Nugent does. 

So Springsteen says your half of America is horrible in response to your side saying our half is horrible. BFD.

TBH, when Springsteen says he's embarrassed to be an American because we allowed a criminal sleazeball con-artist like Trump in the WH, I have to agree with him. It's embarrassing to be fellow countrymen with all of your ilk.  

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

Hate Vladimir Putin because you've got egg on your face.  But that ex-KGB agent is laughing at this country right now.  It would be like Rocky IV sans Rocky, where  you have Pee Wee Herman fighting Ivan Drago, where the only thing he can out-perform him in is projectile public fapping.  Good thing they still can't track the F-22 Raptor. 

Oh boy. More of your usual references to macho-idiot movies I've never seen and as such, have no idea what you're talking about. 

I won't say what of Putin's you've got on your face, but let's just say, I'll take the egg any day. 

But your squealing teenage girl-like adoration of him is noted. 

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

Let's trade Putin for the Tranny WNBA player and leave the decorated Marine to rot.    

That "tranny WNBA player" was the only trade they were offering, Einstooge. 

The country that is holding the prisoners always dictates which ones it's willing to swap. 

But in typical right-wing fashion, you ignore that little detail for the purpose of pushing the right's non-stop anti-Biden propaganda. 

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

And you have the audacity to call conservatives the thugs.

Because that is exactly what the extremist, far right is.  

[jrs2]

38 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Show me some statistical data to back up your claim that people who find bigoted comments offensive are a minority. 

Here's a bit of data from conservative leaning Pew Research that says just the opposite....

 

According to Pew, by a margin of 58% to 38%, people who think like you are the ones in the minority. 

So apparently you just pulled that out of your butt.  

Just like a rightie to assume everybody else is as soulless and lacking in conscience as they are, and that money rules every decision.  

How was that last case of BUD LIGHT you and your rightie pals enjoyed recently?  

How many more you buying this weekend for your weekly Trumper Hypocrite Party?   

So says the Putin fanboy who talks about how horrible the same half of America is that Ted "Crap Drawers Draft Dodger" Nugent does. 

So Springsteen says your half of America is horrible in response to your side saying our half is horrible. BFD.

TBH, when Springsteen says he's embarrassed to be an American because we allowed a criminal sleazeball con-artist like Trump in the WH, I have to agree with him. It's embarrassing to be fellow countrymen with all of your ilk.  

Oh boy. More of your usual references to macho-idiot movies I've never seen and as such, have no idea what you're talking about. 

I won't say what of Putin's you've got on your face, but let's just say, I'll take the egg any day. 

But your squealing teenage girl-like adoration of him is noted. 

That "tranny WNBA player" was the only trade they were offering, Einstooge. 

The country that is holding the prisoners always dictates which ones it's willing to swap. 

But in typical right-wing fashion, you ignore that little detail for the purpose of pushing the right's non-stop anti-Biden propaganda. 

Because that is exactly what the extremist, far right is.  

LOL.  Putin's junk...

seriously though, character assassinations aside, I would think you all would be more concerned with the Biden Cartel taking money from China, and in exchange then allowing one of their spy balloons to travel 3,000 miles coast to coast collecting data while  giving an excuse that would leave someone like a Putin bewildered that the vast minority of the US population that actually did vote for Biden is as brain dead as Biden himself is for believing it.