LOCAL and Florida Politics

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, jack said:

Except being PC was supposed to be about word choice, not much more. It morphed into a critical theory with a focus on oppressor and oppressed.. Similar to how woke is on the right, woke had a meaning. Now it is a stand in for progressivism. 

Nope, that's not what it was ever supposed to be ultimately; but that's how they rolled it out.. Read your history.

it's a way to manipulate and control a population through public shame. Clinton didn't invent it; the '90's didn't invent it; it existed for a hundred years.  how do you think the Nazi's and Bolsheviks gained and maintained power in the first place? 

It's Socialism 101.

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Nope, that's not what it was ever supposed to be ultimately; but that's how they rolled it out.. Read your history.

it's a way to manipulate and control a population through public shame. Clinton didn't invent it; the '90's didn't invent it; it existed for a hundred years.  how do you think the Nazi's and Bolsheviks gained and maintained power in the first place? 

It's Socialism 101.

George H.W. Bush (Sr.) popularized the term back in '91 at a University of Michigan commencement exercise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness#:~:text=In May 1991%2C at a,ignited controversy across the land.

The first modern day use of the term:

 

It had been coined quite awhile earlier, but nobody ever used it.

After Bush said it, everyone started using it.

It came to mean absurd measures taken to avoid offending others on the basis of race, gender, orientation, etc.

More or less the same thing people mean when they say woke.  

.

Edited July 17, 2023 by JFW657

[jack]

17 hours ago, JFW657 said:

George H.W. Bush (Sr.) popularized the term back in '91 at a University of Michigan commencement exercise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness#:~:text=In May 1991%2C at a,ignited controversy across the land.

The first modern day use of the term:

 

It had been coined quite awhile earlier, but nobody ever used it.

After Bush said it, everyone started using it.

It came to mean absurd measures taken to avoid offending others on the basis of race, gender, orientation, etc.

More or less the same thing people mean when they say woke.  

.

So like I said earlier. Just because people take it too far does not change the original meaning of the word or term. Words have meanings. It should not be whatever every one feels like. 

[jrs2]

18 minutes ago, jack said:

So like I said earlier. Just because people take it too far does not change the original meaning of the word or term. Words have meanings. It should not be whatever every one feels like. 

when you say, meanings, are you talking about the definition of woke?

[JFW657]

12 minutes ago, jack said:

So like I said earlier. Just because people take it too far does not change the original meaning of the word or term. Words have meanings. It should not be whatever every one feels like. 

Real words have meanings. 

Terms that were concocted by someone in order to fit some kind of political narrative or social agenda are often times open to interpretation. Especially when they take an existing word and apply some new slant to it.

Like "woke" for instance. It had a specific meaning for centuries, then some guy decided he was going to apply some new interpretation to it. 

Both the term and the underlying concept of "woke" as it's being used in the current vernacular, was recognized right off the bat by most people as silliness, which is why it is used so derisively today. 

Like it or not.  

[shardoon]

To a degree, the term racist, bigot, and fascist gets used at times incorrectly. These are labels others call people that they do not agree with. Not that this is always the case, but on many occasions, people like to throw the label out there without any concept of its definition. 

[orange87]

So far every single GOP candidate has refused to answer wether they'd support a national abortion ban.

On CNN, DeSantis ducks abortion issue, says campaign is strong

Article: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/07/18/on-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong/?utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2f2023%2f07%2f18%2fon-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking%3a+On+CNN%2c+DeSantis+ducks+abortion+issue%2c+says+campaign+is+strong

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

So far every single GOP candidate has refused to answer wether they'd support a national abortion ban.

On CNN, DeSantis ducks abortion issue, says campaign is strong

Article: 

No real need for them to answer.

Everyone knows what the answer is. 

[jack]

22 hours ago, jrs2 said:

when you say, meanings, are you talking about the definition of woke?

Yes to a degree. Words have meanings. Then they leave whatever niche circle it is in and all hell breaks loose. PC, woke, intersectionality, CRT, etc. All had very specific meanings that has been beotchized by the general public. Mostly by their own supporters. 

22 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Real words have meanings. 

Terms that were concocted by someone in order to fit some kind of political narrative or social agenda are often times open to interpretation. Especially when they take an existing word and apply some new slant to it.

Like "woke" for instance. It had a specific meaning for centuries, then some guy decided he was going to apply some new interpretation to it. 

Both the term and the underlying concept of "woke" as it's being used in the current vernacular, was recognized right off the bat by most people as silliness, which is why it is used so derisively today. 

Like it or not.  

Woke by definition is being awake to the injustices around you. It is not a left or right term. As I have said before, I think our governor is woke as hell. 

Where it gets silly is when there is boogie man behind every corner. 

[jack]

21 hours ago, shardoon said:

To a degree, the term racist, bigot, and fascist gets used at times incorrectly. These are labels others call people that they do not agree with. Not that this is always the case, but on many occasions, people like to throw the label out there without any concept of its definition. 

I swear I can count on one hand when the term racist is actually used correctly. If everything is racist, nothing is racist. 

15 hours ago, orange87 said:

So far every single GOP candidate has refused to answer wether they'd support a national abortion ban.

On CNN, DeSantis ducks abortion issue, says campaign is strong

Article: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/07/18/on-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong/?utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2f2023%2f07%2f18%2fon-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking%3a+On+CNN%2c+DeSantis+ducks+abortion+issue%2c+says+campaign+is+strong

I don't think the GOP base wants a national ban unless it 12-15 weeks with exceptions. The GOP is not has pro life as many people think. 

[shardoon]

17 hours ago, orange87 said:

So far every single GOP candidate has refused to answer wether they'd support a national abortion ban.

On CNN, DeSantis ducks abortion issue, says campaign is strong

Article: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/07/18/on-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong/?utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2f2023%2f07%2f18%2fon-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking%3a+On+CNN%2c+DeSantis+ducks+abortion+issue%2c+says+campaign+is+strong

I do not think that is the case.  I do not think an absolute ban  would be supported by the majority of the GOP. I think this is the typical pandering to the fringes to make it through the primary. The Democratic party has their fair share of fringe pandering during their primaries. With that being said, I do not think an absolute ban would be looked at favorably from a strict constitutional standpoint in this current supreme court. They made it abundantly clear that the decisions should be left up to the states and would favor less federal involvement. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by shardoon

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, jack said:

Yes to a degree. Words have meanings. Then they leave whatever niche circle it is in and all hell breaks loose. PC, woke, intersectionality, CRT, etc. All had very specific meanings that has been beotchized by the general public. Mostly by their own supporters. 

Woke by definition is being awake to the injustices around you. It is not a left or right term. As I have said before, I think our governor is woke as hell. 

Where it gets silly is when there is boogie man behind every corner. 

...and this is where we will usually part ways in the analysis.  every movement (not bowel) is the result of a direct influence or push by a specific group or interest.  there is no such thing as a grass roots or organic movement absent an antagonist or protagonist.  People just write this stuff off so easily it's amazing; that's why they get away with what they get away with all these years.

18 hours ago, orange87 said:

So far every single GOP candidate has refused to answer wether they'd support a national abortion ban.

On CNN, DeSantis ducks abortion issue, says campaign is strong

Article: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2023/07/18/on-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong/?utm_source=listrak&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.orlandosentinel.com%2f2023%2f07%2f18%2fon-cnn-desantis-ducks-abortion-issue-says-campaign-is-strong%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking%3a+On+CNN%2c+DeSantis+ducks+abortion+issue%2c+says+campaign+is+strong

that's just fear pandering so that people won't vote for the GOP where that issue is paramount to their decision.

@shardoonis spot on regarding the constitutional analysis too.

But if that did happen, time to move to San Diego, because...Tijuana here WE come!

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, jack said:

Yes to a degree. Words have meanings. Then they leave whatever niche circle it is in and all hell breaks loose. PC, woke, intersectionality, CRT, etc. All had very specific meanings that has been beotchized by the general public. Mostly by their own supporters. 

Woke by definition is being awake to the injustices around you. It is not a left or right term. As I have said before, I think our governor is woke as hell. 

Where it gets silly is when there is boogie man behind every corner. 

No, the actual, real, traditional and legitimate definition of woke is: the past tense of wake.

Example: "I was hungry when I woke from my nap so I had lunch".

That other definition is some malarkey somebody pushing an SJW agenda made up, after which it kind of backfired and blew up in their faces. 

But there are still those die-hards who would force it and the underlying concept of wokeness on the rest of society, so that all of us members of the "privileged" class who, because of our privileged DNA, have never had to work or strive for anything, will walk through life with our heads hung in shame while apologizing to our victims, because we now realize how awful we are due to the way we oppress everyone who is not exactly like us and yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah. 

To which we, the evil oppressors and ogres say.... Fuhgeddaboudit!!!  

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

No, the actual, real, traditional and legitimate definition of woke is: the past tense of wake.

Example: "I was hungry when I woke from my nap so I had lunch".

That other definition is some malarkey somebody pushing an SJW agenda made up, after which it kind of backfired and blew up in their faces. 

But there are still those die-hards who would force it and the underlying concept of wokeness on the rest of society, so that all of us members of the "privileged" class who, because of our privileged DNA, have never had to work or strive for anything, will walk through life with our heads hung in shame while apologizing to our victims, because we now realize how awful we are due to the way we oppress everyone who is not exactly like us and yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah. 

To which we, the evil oppressors and ogres say.... Fuhgeddaboudit!!!  

 

[jack]

21 hours ago, JFW657 said:

No, the actual, real, traditional and legitimate definition of woke is: the past tense of wake.

Example: "I was hungry when I woke from my nap so I had lunch".

That other definition is some malarkey somebody pushing an SJW agenda made up, after which it kind of backfired and blew up in their faces. 

But there are still those die-hards who would force it and the underlying concept of wokeness on the rest of society, so that all of us members of the "privileged" class who, because of our privileged DNA, have never had to work or strive for anything, will walk through life with our heads hung in shame while apologizing to our victims, because we now realize how awful we are due to the way we oppress everyone who is not exactly like us and yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah. 

To which we, the evil oppressors and ogres say.... Fuhgeddaboudit!!!  

When the term started be used 30 years ago, no one knew what a SJW was. Besides, these people are a small portion of society that thinks this way. Most people do not and would have no idea what you are talking about. 

21 hours ago, jrs2 said:

...and this is where we will usually part ways in the analysis.  every movement (not bowel) is the result of a direct influence or push by a specific group or interest.  there is no such thing as a grass roots or organic movement absent an antagonist or protagonist.  People just write this stuff off so easily it's amazing; that's why they get away with what they get away with all these years.

Agree to disagree. Movements usually are started and maintained by the grass roots. Not but some rich puppet masters. 

We both lean to the right (me probably a lot more) but I am not a populist and I can see your populist streak. 

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, jack said:

When the term started be used 30 years ago, no one knew what a SJW was. Besides, these people are a small portion of society that thinks this way. Most people do not and would have no idea what you are talking about. 

As far as when it first started to be used is concerned, and according to the sources I've found, it was first used in the context in question during the 1940's, then sporadically here and there over the next few decades, but never on a level that 9 out of 10 people would have ever heard or been familiar with back then.

It didn't begin to achieve real notoriety until about 10 years ago and by then, SJW had also become a popular term. 

I would heartily disagree that those who are described as woke SJW's are a small portion of society.

I think pretty much the entire progressive wing of the left are woke SJW's to one degree or another.  

[jack]

17 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

 

I would heartily disagree that those who are described as woke SJW's are a small portion of society.

I think pretty much the entire progressive wing of the left are woke SJW's to one degree or another.  

We are talking about 5% of society here. They seem like a large group but they just yell the loudest. 

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, jack said:

Agree to disagree. Movements usually are started and maintained by the grass roots. Not but some rich puppet masters. 

We both lean to the right (me probably a lot more) but I am not a populist and I can see your populist streak. 

Let me start by saying...isn't this great?  We're all engaging one another and six months ago some members thought UP Orlando was doomed.

But, isn't this what our Alphabet has been doing in other countries for like a hundred or so years?  Regime changes; grass roots uprisings?  And they always do it through a strawman.  So, how is it any different domestically?  

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

As far as when it first started to be used is concerned, and according to the sources I've found, it was first used in the context in question during the 1940's, then sporadically here and there over the next few decades, but never on a level that 9 out of 10 people would have ever heard or been familiar with back then.

It didn't begin to achieve real notoriety until about 10 years ago and by then, SJW had also become a popular term. 

I would heartily disagree that those who are described as woke SJW's are a small portion of society.

I think pretty much the entire progressive wing of the left are woke SJW's to one degree or another.  

what do you think those numbers are?  (percentages?)

I would gather that the mainstream Democrats and mainstream GOP make up a similar percentage in society.  then you have the independents and then the fringe on the Left and Right in equal numbers. 

On a side note, I recently purchased 2022's Sim City: United States, Politics Edition, for $299.95 which included this extra 2023 Expansion Pack free of charge: RFK Jr.; Dime bag, Hunter's laptop, recent SCOTUS decisions, Stormy Daniels, Miralago, Alvin Bragg, Bill Maher, Seth Rogan., DeSantis vs Disney; Tucker Carlson (before), and Little Mermaid.

There's a second 2023 Bonus Pak I'm looking to get for $79.99 which includes: Tucker Carlson (after), Barisma, Snow White, McCarthy, Joy Behar, Elon Musk, and Don Lemmon.  For an extra $14.99 on top of that I can get Sean Hannity, Trump's Third indictment, Adam Schiff, Gavin Newsome, and ... Tranny's. 

Oh, man, this should really keep me busy...

There's also a 2020-21 Commemorative Edition Bonus Pack I've been thinking about getting which includes: January 6, Dominion, Impeachment #1, Wuhan, BLM, Unleash The Kraken, Q-Anon, and Nancy Pelosi.  This one costs a whopping $99.95, but for an extra $14.95 on top of that I can also get "Mail In Ballots" and Fauci as well.  I hear it's so worth it...

[prahaboheme]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:57 AM, jrs2 said:

...but you didn't even give a definition, albeit even a concise one.

And what point are you trying to make? I asked what should be a simple question with a simple answer, considering you amongst others throw the word around so frequently.

[JFW657]

I believe spenser mentioned this fellow in less than glowing terms occasionally with regard to development issues in DTO...

Prominent downtown Orlando leader Thomas Chatmon dies at age 68 

https://news.yahoo.com/prominent-downtown-orlando-leader-thomas-185959043.html 

 

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I believe spenser mentioned this fellow in less than glowing terms occasionally with regard to development issues in DTO...

Prominent downtown Orlando leader Thomas Chatmon dies at age 68 

https://news.yahoo.com/prominent-downtown-orlando-leader-thomas-185959043.html 

 

RIP...he was a nice classy guy and very approachable.  

[nite owℓ]

I've been away from UP for a while, so it was interesting to catch up on this thread. Everyone has their own interpretation of what woke actually means, myself included. To me, it meant being enlightened and informed. Not just about racial issues, but about all the things we've been conditioned to accept as normal, but in some ways are hazardous to our mind, body and health, etc. To me, the Matrix (movie) is an example of someone who has woken up. Not that I'm a user of the word, but I'm pretty sure I mostly understood the original context.

Erykah Badu is considered the founding mother of coining the term woke. I've listened to her music for many years and I'm familiar with the song she incorporated the term into. In an interview with Ari Melber, she speaks on how the word has changed after being hijacked by the Right and briefly explains her original definition of the word. Video and article below if interested.

https://www.vibe.com/news/national/erykah-badu-meaning-staying-woke-1234745393/

Edited July 31, 2023 by nite owℓ

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I've been away from UP for a while, so it was interesting to catch up on this thread. Everyone has their own interpretation of what woke actually means, myself included. To me, it meant being enlightened and informed. Not just about racial issues, but about all the things we've been conditioned to accept as normal, but in some ways are hazardous to our mind, body and health, etc. To me, the Matrix (movie) is an example of someone who has woken up. Not that I'm a user of the word, but I'm pretty sure I mostly understood the original context.

Erykah Badu is considered the founding mother of coining the term woke. I've listened to her music for many years and I'm familiar with the song she incorporated the term into. In an interview with Ari Melber, she speaks on how the word has changed after being hijacked by the Right and briefly explains her original definition of the word. Video and article below if interested.

https://www.vibe.com/news/national/erykah-badu-meaning-staying-woke-1234745393/

welcome back!

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I've been away from UP for a while, so it was interesting to catch up on this thread. Everyone has their own interpretation of what woke actually means, myself included. To me, it meant being enlightened and informed. Not just about racial issues, but about all the things we've been conditioned to accept as normal, but in some ways are hazardous to our mind, body and health, etc. To me, the Matrix (movie) is an example of someone who has woken up. Not that I'm a user of the word, but I'm pretty sure I mostly understood the original context.

Erykah Badu is considered the founding mother of coining the term woke. I've listened to her music for many years and I'm familiar with the song she incorporated the term into. In an interview with Ari Melber, she speaks on how the word has changed after being hijacked by the Right and briefly explains her original definition of the word. Video and article below if interested.

https://www.vibe.com/news/national/erykah-badu-meaning-staying-woke-1234745393/

Based on what I've seen, here is what my take on the definition of woke is:  Woke is the realization that if you're white, you are a racist (white shaming; Coca Cola Be Less White, etc.).  if you don't think you're a racist, then you are subconsciously racist whether you know it or not (subconscious racism).  therefore, you need to be reconditioned (fill in the blank) for the betterment of a more "tolerant" society.  The application of "woke" has transcended race and now includes sexual transitioning issues with male swimmers in female locker rooms, etc.

Referring to a policy as being "woke" may be something The Right did or is doing, while said policy by The Left has no label in and of itself other than being considered by The Left as being "normal" or morally correct.   So The Right calls it out as being woke, and the The Left complains about it therefore calling The Right a bunch of racists for doing so.  This is an attempt by The Left to "shame" them into agreement with their agenda.

Now, it is not just The Right calling out policies as being woke.  You even have left-leaning Democrats calling this stuff out as it comes from the extreme Left.

I first heard the term during BLM riots; and actual protesters either used the term or had signs with it on them. 

It's a way to foster division while pushing an agenda. 

So, what is considered racist?  Daylight savings time is one thing.  The SAT's are another.  Not going to see a "woke" movie is also racist.  Having security guards at a retail store is racist.  Next, they'll say flying United over Spirit is racist.

The Chinese and Arabs are laughing at us...