CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[RANYC]

On 3/7/2023 at 1:41 PM, kermit said:

Fantastic news.

I suspect (but am not certain) that the facility will mainly be used to build heavy-rail passenger rolling stock (Amtrak and Brightline's new coaches and locomotives — Amtrak has a huge pending order). I think LRT manufacturing remains in Sacramento for the time being. Having said that, Boston is having so much trouble with its CRRC Orange Line replacement vehicles combined with China trade concerns means that Siemens is likely to see a huge demand spike for transit vehicles soon and Lexington will likely be key to meeting that demand. 

If this facility does build transit vehicles then it will also help (a bit) with getting our transit plan approved in Raleigh. We can now go to the legislature and say the Silver Line will create factory jobs in Lexington (assuming we stick w Siemens equipment).

EDIT:

The Trains story implies that this will be heavy rail manufacturing only _in Phase 1_ (no mention of what other phases might look like). Siemens does throw this statement out (which would have saved CATS a bunch of aggravation)

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/siemens-to-build-220-million-railcar-factory-in-north-carolina/

Yes, at the very least, this potentially sways Lexington area representation at the state level to approve our ability to tax ourselves, adding stakeholders to our transit objectives.

[KJHburg]

I know there has been some talk about commuter rail along the NS NCRR lines to Cabarrus County mainly Harrisburg, Concord and Kannapolis.  

but does anyone know if there is any talk of commuter rail out to Monroe.  They have a great CSX owned station adjacent to a city of Monroe parking lot and near the county offices downtown.  Would CSX even consider this or has there been any discussion of it?  this station looks great.  

[kermit]

I would not be surprised if CSX was happy to sell the tracks from Monroe to Lincolnton for a reasonable price. Despite the relative availability of these tracks, I think there are two (plus one) things preventing commuter rail to Monroe.

1) I think Union County would be lukewarm on paying for it

2) The route would largely parallel the Silver Line creating some redundancy (although not much more than Commuter rail to Kannapolis and the Blue Line).

3) Not sure what ridership from Monroe to Uptown would look like. The bulk of ridership would be from Matthews, so the extra 15 miles of route is kinda blah in terms of ridership.

Edited March 11, 2023 by kermit

[southslider]

CATS adds vacant COO to all their interims for CEO, CFO, CAO, and CIO.

[kermit]

the CATS' app real time tracking for the Blue line has been super unreliable lately.....

While I am not a fare enforcement stickler, I will also say I am tired of the fare checkers letting riders get away with buying a fare on CATS app when they see the inspectors board the train. (inspectors could use the countdown timer on the app to call people out on this)

Edited March 14, 2023 by kermit

[15895]

I was in Fargo, ND & Minneapolis. Great cities, loved them both a ton. 

Minneapolis reinforced the preference of blue and silver in Charlotte interlining. I always liked the idea of interlining the Blue & Silver Line in Charlotte in uptown and preferably I’d say interline through SouthEnd to New Bern. I hope CATS chooses the interlining option for Silver. 

I used the T/Metro in Minneapolis several times throughout the core and the frequency was good enough to use as hop-on/hop-off. It was always rolling up within a few minutes and the GPS arrive times were seemingly accurate. 

 

SouthEnd through Uptown should have 10 minute or less frequency all day every day. But the further out station and park & ride lots don’t need the service the urban core does. 15 minute frequencies from Matthews, UNC & 485 stations would make 7 minute or So frequencies in the core. 

As far as the airport, I would like to  see a light rail (hypothetically call it the Green Line) share tracks with the gold line from Gateway to CTC. At Gateway, a hypothetical green line would run parallel to the train tracks to Morehead, hit the Pipe & Foundry lots then into Wilkinson. 

That would also give Gateway - CTC more frequency. 
 

I mean. That’s what I think is realistic for Charlotte to achieve in its next transit step given the political environment of NC. I’d want HRT in a perfect world and underground in the core otherwise but. Ain’t happening. 
 

I wonder if it would even be possible to have an augmented Blue Line Service operate between New Bern to Old Concord. Maybe even call it a different color line to give more frequency to the core and less frequency further north and south of the core? That could be a cost effective way to appeal to users in the urban core who need more frequency while adapting to a post pandemic world with softer commuter demand (and suburbanites going to special events, etc probabky don’t mind 15 minute frequencies like those in the core)

Edited March 12, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[DJ8hep]

I was in Fargo, ND & Minneapolis. Great cities, loved them both a ton. 
Minneapolis reinforced the preference of blue and silver in Charlotte interlining. I always liked the idea of interlining the Blue & Silver Line in Charlotte in uptown and preferably I’d say interline through SouthEnd to New Bern. I hope CATS chooses the interlining option for Silver. 

I used the T/Metro in Minneapolis several times throughout the core and the frequency was good enough to use as hop-on/hop-off. It was always rolling up within a few minutes and the GPS arrive times were seemingly accurate. 

 
SouthEnd through Uptown should have 10 minute or less frequency all day every day. But the further out station and park & ride lots don’t need the service the urban core does. 15 minute frequencies from Matthews, UNC & 485 stations would make 7 minute or So frequencies in the core. 
As far as the airport, I would like to  see a light rail (hypothetically call it the Green Line) share tracks with the gold line from Gateway to CTC. At Gateway, a hypothetical green line would run parallel to the train tracks to Morehead, hit the Pipe & Foundry lots then into Wilkinson. 
That would also give Gateway - CTC more frequency. 
 
I mean. That’s what I think is realistic for Charlotte to achieve in its next transit step given the political environment of NC. I’d want HRT in a perfect world and underground in the core otherwise but. Ain’t happening. 
 
I wonder if it would even be possible to have an augmented Blue Line Service operate between New Bern to Old Concord. Maybe even call it a different color line to give more frequency to the core and less frequency further north and south of the core? That could be a cost effective way to appeal to users in the urban core who need more frequency while adapting to a post pandemic world with softer commuter demand (and suburbanites going to special events, etc probabky don’t mind 15 minute frequencies like those in the core)

How is the weather at my old stomping grounds? I do remember when they built the first line that went from the airport to downtown, I definitely thought of it as a tourist attraction then - but the convenience definitely changed the area substantially!

[Desert Power]

Stayed in Minneapolis back in December. Their rail line had more trains, traveled at much higher speeds, and always on time.

[15895]

40 minutes ago, DJ8hep said:

How is the weather at my old stomping grounds? I do remember when they built the first line that went from the airport to downtown, I definitely thought of it as a tourist attraction then - but the convenience definitely changed the area substantially!

In Fargo there was like 3 feet of snow and had to go to Minneapolis where it too snowed. So it was snowy. But oddly the cold in Fargo & Minneapolis didn’t seem that cold because It was super dry. I never seen so much snow. Stayed at the Westin in downtown Minneapolis, and encountered my new favorite coffee place, Backstory Coffee, in the Warehouse District. I was *super* impressed with Minneapolis. I actually miss it and want to re-visit, ha. I wouldn’t mind living in Minneapolis. The Light Rail definitely made getting around pretty easy. 

It’s off topic other than the fact that frequency matters. Come on CATS. We need more frequency. 

Luckily last time I was in Charlotte in October on a weekend, I waited less than 5 minutes for the train both to and from. I brought someone who has never been to the south outside of NoVa and I tried to avoid Lynx because I didn’t want a short visit to be hampered with waiting 20 minutes between trains. Had it been a reliable 12 minutes or less, I may have exclusively used light rail. But I had to be a good host and zoom around my favorite things in the city. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[kayman]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:08 AM, AirNostrumMAD said:

I was in Fargo, ND & Minneapolis. Great cities, loved them both a ton. 

Minneapolis reinforced the preference of blue and silver in Charlotte interlining. I always liked the idea of interlining the Blue & Silver Line in Charlotte in uptown and preferably I’d say interline through SouthEnd to New Bern. I hope CATS chooses the interlining option for Silver. 

I used the T/Metro in Minneapolis several times throughout the core and the frequency was good enough to use as hop-on/hop-off. It was always rolling up within a few minutes and the GPS arrive times were seemingly accurate. 

 

SouthEnd through Uptown should have 10 minute or less frequency all day every day. But the further out station and park & ride lots don’t need the service the urban core does. 15 minute frequencies from Matthews, UNC & 485 stations would make 7 minute or So frequencies in the core. 

As far as the airport, I would like to  see a light rail (hypothetically call it the Green Line) share tracks with the gold line from Gateway to CTC. At Gateway, a hypothetical green line would run parallel to the train tracks to Morehead, hit the Pipe & Foundry lots then into Wilkinson. 

That would also give Gateway - CTC more frequency. 
 

I mean. That’s what I think is realistic for Charlotte to achieve in its next transit step given the political environment of NC. I’d want HRT in a perfect world and underground in the core otherwise but. Ain’t happening. 
 

I wonder if it would even be possible to have an augmented Blue Line Service operate between New Bern to Old Concord. Maybe even call it a different color line to give more frequency to the core and less frequency further north and south of the core? That could be a cost effective way to appeal to users in the urban core who need more frequency while adapting to a post pandemic world with softer commuter demand (and suburbanites going to special events, etc probabky don’t mind 15 minute frequencies like those in the core)

The interlinking concept is dead as a doornail.  CATS has a better chance of amending the LYNX Silver Line LPA to utilize the Norfolk-Southern right-of-way into the CLT Airport parking structure adjacent to the main terminal entrance than interlinking anything with the LYNX Blue Line or CityLYNX Gold Line.  TBH, I would welcome the LPA change following the N-S right-of-way to be closer to the CLT Airport terminal.

Edited March 15, 2023 by kayman

[Desert Power]

12 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

So it was snowy. But oddly the cold in Fargo & Minneapolis didn’t seem that cold because It was super dry. I never seen so much snow. Stayed at the Westin in downtown Minneapolis, and encountered my new favorite coffee place, Backstory Coffee, in the Warehouse District. I was *super* impressed with Minneapolis. I actually miss it and want to re-visit, ha. I wouldn’t mind living in Minneapolis. The Light Rail definitely made getting around pretty easy. 

Yeah, I agree. Would like to visit when it isn't so cold, but there was a lot to really like about Minneapolis. Rail is really well laid out serving all 5 major league stadiums/arenas, the airport, Mall of America, and both downtown cores. Some decently preserved architecture gives it an older and bigger feel than a city like Charlotte.

 

[DJ8hep]

In Fargo there was like 3 feet of snow and had to go to Minneapolis where it too snowed. So it was snowy. But oddly the cold in Fargo & Minneapolis didn’t seem that cold because It was super dry. I never seen so much snow. Stayed at the Westin in downtown Minneapolis, and encountered my new favorite coffee place, Backstory Coffee, in the Warehouse District. I was *super* impressed with Minneapolis. I actually miss it and want to re-visit, ha. I wouldn’t mind living in Minneapolis. The Light Rail definitely made getting around pretty easy. 
It’s off topic other than the fact that frequency matters. Come on CATS. We need more frequency. 
Luckily last time I was in Charlotte in October on a weekend, I waited less than 5 minutes for the train both to and from. I brought someone who has never been to the south outside of NoVa and I tried to avoid Lynx because I didn’t want a short visit to be hampered with waiting 20 minutes between trains. Had it been a reliable 12 minutes or less, I may have exclusively used light rail. But I had to be a good host and zoom around my favorite things in the city. 

It really is a nice city! If it wasn’t for the terrible winters, it would have been a lot harder to move away (I have a really hard time with the cold). I do credit a lot of my love for density as well as skyscrapers from Minneapolis. I do miss the skyway system and hanging out in the Crystal Court at the IDS tower.

Yeah, I agree. Would like to visit when it isn't so cold, but there was a lot to really like about Minneapolis. Rail is really well laid out serving all 5 major league stadiums/arenas, the airport, Mall of America, and both downtown cores. Some decently preserved architecture gives it an older and bigger feel than a city like Charlotte.
 

Definitely visit it in the summer! I have always loved the older architecture and buildings there. One of the buildings I have gone up in a handful of times is the Foshay tower; the lobby leading up to the elevators is quite stunning!

All that to say, both the green line and the blue line were pretty reliable and the routes made sense. I was briefly a part of the (ongoing) efforts to extend the green line, which the route made less sense to me and there seemed to be many complications with construction…

[Desert Power]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:12 AM, DJ8hep said:

Definitely visit it in the summer! I have always loved the older architecture and buildings there. One of the buildings I have gone up in a handful of times is the Foshay tower; the lobby leading up to the elevators is quite stunning!

Yeah, we didn't go up but did have a dinner at Manny's which is connected with the lobby bar of the W there. Nice place, one of the top meals I've had.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Desert Power

[kayman]

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/hawthorne-lane-bridge-contractor-sues-city-charlotte-115m/KM4WEX7QDJFBBINBXGZEED2OGE/

 

More proof CATS shouldn't be a part of the City of Charlotte. CoC is occurring more and more liabilities of CATS staff while the confusion of the board oversight structure of the MTC AND the CoC City Council can both initiate termination procedures of the CATS CEO and other staffers. 

4532001-charlotte-catsreview-presentation(1).pdf

It just shows that until this set of untangled cords are streamlined then it's going to be a continuation of business as usual.  Charlotte should just cut its losses and spin off CATS.

[davidclt]

3 hours ago, kayman said:

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/hawthorne-lane-bridge-contractor-sues-city-charlotte-115m/KM4WEX7QDJFBBINBXGZEED2OGE/

 

More proof CATS shouldn't be a part of the City of Charlotte. CoC is occurring more and more liabilities of CATS staff while the confusion of the board oversight structure of the MTC AND the CoC City Council can both initiate termination procedures of the CATS CEO and other staffers. 

4532001-charlotte-catsreview-presentation(1).pdf 2.92 MB · 1 download

It just shows that until this set of untangled cords are streamlined then it's going to be a continuation of business as usual.  Charlotte should just cut its losses and spin off CATS.

(Mayor) Vi Lyles called for a Metropolitan Transit Authority on today's Charlotte Talks (this takes you to the timepoint where she makes this statement).

Having just returned from two cities with roughly the same population of Charlotte (give or take 200,000 people), I've realized we in America (the "greatest country in the world") have the transit we have as a conscious choice. CATS and Lynx being in the condition they're in reflects not just a lack of leadership but an absolute indifference to enabling transit in this country. I live in this city and I'm a user (victim?) of CATS' services.

Visiting two different cities (one in a formerly Communist country) this past week made me realize how utterly opaque and unusable our system is. CATS has been so penny-wise and pound foolish and there are so many things they could do to make our system more usable and useful. Taking a train from AMS to the Amsterdam Central station was a breeze (Amsterdam population ~860k). Taking a train (at 5 a.m.) from Prague (population 1.28 million) Můstek station to a stop outside the city where it connected seamlessly with a bus which carried me to PRG - about the same distance from my house to CLT in 35 minutes just amplified how utterly indifferent CATS is to providing a usable, desirable service. It's disheartening.

Edited March 22, 2023 by davidclt

[kermit]

2 hours ago, davidclt said:

 I live in this city and I'm a user (victim?) of CATS' services.

Holy crap, did she really say "victim"? If so I tip my hat to her.

Also very glad to hear her say that we have crapty transit because we choose to have crapty transit.

Is this the sound of CATS (and transit planning in Charlotte) hitting bottom?

EDIT: aww man (davidclt was paraphrasing)

Edited March 22, 2023 by kermit

[davidclt]

55 minutes ago, kermit said:

Holy crap, did she really say "victim"? If so I tip my hat to her.

Also very glad to hear her say that we have crapty transit because we choose to have crapty transit.

Is this the sound of CATS (and transit planning in Charlotte) hitting bottom?

Those were my words. She was defensive about Mike Collins' questions.

[15895]

It’s good to look at Amsterdam and other places for ideas - however, I dislike using those cities when talking about Charlotte’s transit overall. Or really anywhere in America. 

Its always either using Tokyo, Moscow or Barcelona as barometers of good transit and “but nowhere in America is good” which I think is just a bad dichotomy.

There are quite a few cities in America to look at for transit leadership - especially for Charlotte. I’d say Denver, Seattle, Minneapolis, Los Angeles (meh), Salt Lake City and some of the larger dense cities have projects to glean from too (DC’s purple  line light rail, San Francisco’s central subway). Not all are perfect but it just drastically changes the way a city develops (look at SouthEnd…)

I know some are quick to point out, for example, Denver’s mass transit still having lots of parking rides & what not. But think over 30, 40, 50, 80 years how that system will affect the cities development over the long term. it’s the building block to a more sustainable future. 
 

Anyway, yeah. Kayman is probably right on the authority.

Edited March 22, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[kayman]

Charlotte Mayor Vi Lyles said this during her statement :

 “While this agreement outlines the roles and responsibilities of the MTC, the City of Charlotte and the Charlotte City Council, there is overlap and a lack of clarity,” the mayor said. “We’ve grown beyond our current county-wide effort, and perhaps it’s time to look at a regional authority with more direct responsibility.”

Charlotte mayor addresses CATS issues; MTC to discuss derailment

Interview with WFAE yesterday: https://www.wfae.org/show/charlotte-talks-with-mike-collins/2023-03-21/mayor-vi-lyles-discusses-cats-derailment-revelation-transparency-arts-funding-crime-council-term-lengths-and-more

It's time for a regional public transit authority to run CATS... 

Edited March 22, 2023 by kayman

[kayman]

The Metropolitan Transit Commission (MTC) meeting is streaming live on YouTube: 

MTC Monthly Meeting- March 22, 2023

Edited March 22, 2023 by kayman

[kayman]

Charlotte Mayor Lyles has reiterated what she said during her interview on spinning off CATS into regional transit authority. 

[elrodvt]

Kudos to Collins for going hard after this story. The responses in the section I listened to were by and large weak and evasive. 

[kayman]

It's showing that regional elected officials must let go of this "big city yet small town" operational mindset that has impaired Charlotte in general. It was cute in the 1990s through 2010s, but they are going to have to operate like and act like Charlotte is a major city from now on.

Edited March 22, 2023 by kayman

[XRZ.ME]

In MTC meeting it said employee brought up that CATS failed to do a bridge inspection on 2021. (Seems to be bridge from station to parking garage)

Edited March 22, 2023 by XRZ.ME

[kayman]

37 bridges, elevated structures, and parking structures are overdue for inspection as mandated in 2020 by FTA. The CoC needs to let go of this entity day-to-day management. An INDEPENDENT transit authority will only be able to restore public trust in regional transit in Metro Charlotte. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by kayman