Orlando's Hometown National Champions

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The AAC is preparing for the next TV contract which might triple the revenue from the current deal after 2020.

They’re asking for a GOR to keep the teams locked in for the period of the new offer.

With the proviso that the conference should try to get BYU, Fresno State, Boise State or other relatively strong programs to join up, I tend to say go for it.

Frankly, with more money, the top AAC teams are likely to keep improving and the powers that be will find it harder and harder to ignore us. Meanwhile, who needs the attitude of the SEC or Big 12 that has been displayed toward us the last two years. Meanwhile, our attendance is increasing every year while the legacy teams in podunk get worse every year.

Look to the future, not the past.

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/aac-gor-coming.137262/

From The Boneyard

you should be on UCF's payroll.  you are a good advocate.

As for expansion, I would try and get BYU in before the other two if possible.  BYU won a NC in 1984 already and Steve Young and Jim McMahon both went there.  And those are two of the biggest NFL names from the past 40 years.  BYU also had Ty Detmer in 1990, etc.

As for attendance, UF, for example, may be 5-7k short for scrub games, but they still pile in 85k +, whereas with UCF, didn't a UCF fan on this thread post last month that UCF can't justify expansion b/c they can't fill their 40k seat stadium as it is now?

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

you should be on UCF's payroll.  you are a good advocate.

As for expansion, I would try and get BYU in before the other two if possible.  BYU won a NC in 1984 already and Steve Young and Jim McMahon both went there.  And those are two of the biggest NFL names from the past 40 years.  BYU also had Ty Detmer in 1990, etc.

As for attendance, UF, for example, may be 5-7k short for scrub games, but they still pile in 85k +, whereas with UCF, didn't a UCF fan on this thread post last month that UCF can't justify expansion b/c they can't fill their 40k seat stadium as it is now?

Actually, according to the Sentinel, UCF attendance has been increasing the last two years (as have season ticket holders) while UF’s has been going the other way. Our average has been 40K + while UF is trying to stabilize at 80K. 

Yes, UF is running ahead of us 2-1 in absolute numbers, but as anyone on Wall St. will point out, the trend is what matters.

Also, as you’ve previously pointed out, UF has been playing for 100 years vs. 40 for UCF.

My bet is that, if the quality of UCF football continues to improve (which it’s likely to do with a tripling of TV revenue offered by a new contract), so will attendance and the season ticket holder numbers. That, btw, is a key reason Danny White is so insistent about home-and-home vs. the 2-1 offer UF is suggesting.

Apart from that, let’s look at pure arithmetic. Given the numbers of alumni now graduating from UCF vs. UF and the location of the schools, if a quality product is provided, why would the alums drive the extra 100 miles?

I could certainly be wrong, but I don’t think I am. If you look at the growth rates of urban schools in the largest states vs. the outpost legacy schools, the trend is to the former.

It’s not just us, btw, look at the success the schools below us like UAB and MTSU are having for the first time. Will it happen tomorrow? Nope. UCF seems to have just hit critical mass at the right time thanks to some unique circumstances. We’d be foolish to ignore those.

Another factor in all this is recruiting. It’s probably not a coincidence that UF, FSU and The U have all descended in to various levels of mediocrity as the state’s G5 schools are siphoning off potential players. As we know, Florida is a hotbed of hs talent but instead of being divided among 3 schools, it’s now 7. Going forward, that issue is not going to reverse for the legacy schools but grow worse, especially with key recruiters like Randy Shannon now at the newer schools.

Truth be told, I think UF will do OK with a coach like Dan Mullen. I think FSU is the legacy school most likely to suffer long-term. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

More on what the AAC schools are facing as the conference looks ahead to renegotiating contracts from SBNation:

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2018/12/10/18134521/aac-tv-deal-big-12-expansion

[aent]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The AAC is preparing for the next TV contract which might triple the revenue from the current deal after 2020.

They’re asking for a GOR to keep the teams locked in for the period of the new offer.

With the proviso that the conference should try to get BYU, Fresno State, Boise State or other relatively strong programs to join up, I tend to say go for it.

Frankly, with more money, the top AAC teams are likely to keep improving and the powers that be will find it harder and harder to ignore us. Meanwhile, who needs the attitude of the SEC or Big 12 that has been displayed toward us the last two years. Meanwhile, our attendance is increasing every year while the legacy teams in podunk get worse every year.

Look to the future, not the past.

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/aac-gor-coming.137262/

From The Boneyard

I imagine UCF would be against a GOR? Obviously the goal is to get into a better conference

[spenser1058]

34 minutes ago, aent said:

I imagine UCF would be against a GOR? Obviously the goal is to get into a better conference

I tend to disagree. Even if the Big 12, the most likely option at the moment, were to expand (and we’ve been down that “fool me once...” scenario before), we’d always be at the mercy of schools like Texas and OU.

Now, if you’re a school like Tulane or ECU that is never going to have the clout to do any better, that might be the best option.

However, if you’re the country’s biggest school in one of its fastest growing media markets (not to mention one that has traditionally leaned toward ABC programming, which like ESPN is owned by the Mouse), why not use that leverage to be the top dog in a surging conference?

If you believe the world of college football isn’t going to vary from the model of the last 50 years, perhaps you take the conservative view. If, however, you see a big change coming from BFE schools to much faster-growing urban schools, it’s probably a good idea to look for a new paradigm (thanks, 41!) Personally, I see too many examples of the latter to believe schools like Ole Miss and Wake Forest point to the future.

It’s probably a gamble either way, but what we’ve seen in the current model is an outdated view for a school whose motto is “Reach For the Stars.”

Edited December 10, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Here’s the Sports Business Journal article that got all this discussion going:

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2018/12/10/Colleges/AAC.aspx

It reinforces the idea UCF has some real leverage to use, perhaps for the first time. We don’t want to overplay our hand but neither do we have to be treated like the red-headed stepchild any longer.

It seems Danny White’s gambit has paid off.

[aent]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I tend to disagree. Even if the Big 12, the most likely option at the moment, were to expand (and we’ve been down that “fool me once...” scenario before), we’d always be at the mercy of schools like Texas and OU.

Now, if you’re a school like Tulane or ECU that is never going to have the clout to do any better, that might be the best option.

However, if you’re the country’s biggest school in one of its fastest growing media markets (not to mention one that has traditionally leaned toward ABC programming, which like ESPN is owned by the Mouse), why not use that leverage to be the top dog in a surging conference?

If you believe the world of college football isn’t going to vary from the model of the last 50 years, perhaps you take the conservative view. If, however, you see a big change coming from BFE schools to much faster-growing urban schools, it’s probably a good idea to look for a new paradigm (thanks, 41!) Personally, I see too many examples of the latter to believe schools like Ole Miss and Wake Forest point to the future.

It’s probably a gamble either way, but what we’ve seen in the current model is an outdated view for a school whose motto is “Reach For the Stars.”

Yes, but the GOR only hurts us by removing the option to jump to a better conference, most of the others in the conference have no chance of that happening. If I were ECU, Tulane, etc, I'd want a GOR, but we're not. There's a reason the SEC is the conference that doesn't have it either, it does nothing to help those at the top.

I do think we're seeing the change you've said, away from the rural college towns to schools in or near cities, but the AAC can't really drop dead weight like Tulane, and even if moving to the Big 12 means losing Texas and OU (which it probably does), it will still be a far superior conference to the American by adding boise, fresno, ucf, and houston for example.

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, you don’t have to take it from me - even the SEC fanboys realize there’s a problem brewing:

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/first-and-10-its-not-just-lsu-vs-ucf-its-the-sec-vs-ucf-with-reputations-at-stake/amp/

From Saturday Down South

(Note the author is such an SEC purist he doesn’t even consider Mizzou and the ‘Cocks to be authentic...)

 

[AndyPok1]

I just don't see it.  Yeah, the "system" is "unfair".  Leaving my biases and unique personal preferences aside... I don't see a time where the AAC as presently constituted, becomes valued on the level of the P5 conferences.  Obviously, yes, things change.  But I see a scenario where the Big 12 disbands and we have 4 major conferences before the AAC becomes so powerful that they are considered P6.

[spenser1058]

More on a potential AAC contract from the commish:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/mike-aresco-refutes-report-of-grant-of-rights-agreement/

From CBS Sports 

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I tend to disagree. Even if the Big 12, the most likely option at the moment, were to expand (and we’ve been down that “fool me once...” scenario before), we’d always be at the mercy of schools like Texas and OU.

Now, if you’re a school like Tulane or ECU that is never going to have the clout to do any better, that might be the best option.

However, if you’re the country’s biggest school in one of its fastest growing media markets (not to mention one that has traditionally leaned toward ABC programming, which like ESPN is owned by the Mouse), why not use that leverage to be the top dog in a surging conference?

If you believe the world of college football isn’t going to vary from the model of the last 50 years, perhaps you take the conservative view. If, however, you see a big change coming from BFE schools to much faster-growing urban schools, it’s probably a good idea to look for a new paradigm (thanks, 41!) Personally, I see too many examples of the latter to believe schools like Ole Miss and Wake Forest point to the future.

It’s probably a gamble either way, but what we’ve seen in the current model is an outdated view for a school whose motto is “Reach For the Stars.”

It's all about brand, and UCF doesn't have it. 

If it's perhaps the largest U by population (it's not by infrastructure, and definitely not by National Merit Scholars population, and definitely nowhere remotely near where it needs to be ala endowments, and so many other categories it's sick), then it's all just fluff, and nothing more.  Ride the coattails of the population of it's student body, which is fine, but at the end of the day, it is a hollow shell with no depth, 

UCF has no "pull" with the media because it has no brand.

I know there's a bias in college football against Johnny Come Lately's.  I was scoffed at by a Tennessee fan back when Meyer won his first BCS title at UF.  Since then, UT has tanked more or less and was 5-7 in 2018.  That being said, UCF will never have what UT has even though they've been on a 10 year slide.  They will never have a 100k seat stadium, a large fan base, a football legacy in a P5 conference for 90+ years, well-known rivalry games, etc., etc. 

You are applying the standard of a growing metro to a growing football program.  Key word being "growing."  Nobody will care about UCF when you've got the history of all of the P% conference schools to compare to, and other G5 or whatever schools that have much more tradition than UCF does.. 

Orlando Metro is fast growing and it's numbers turns heads, but that standard and type of notoriety does not apply or translate to college football and WILL NEVER APPLY TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL. 

College football is not about expansion teams, like you see in the NFL.  It's not.  The Titans, Texans, Jaguars, Panthers, and Ravens were tough pills to swallow, but the only reason they worked is because the teams identify with a specific city. 

That's not college football; it's not about and has never been about a specific "city;" it's about deep rooted traditions.  Here's UCF's:  "Hey, remember when we used to commute from Titusville to Mr. Smith's science class?" "Remember when we used to drive across town to the Citrus Bowl to see UCF play ECU?"  Here's one from UF: "I was a senior when Steve Spurrier won the Heisman."  Or, "I was at UF when 'kicker x' played there, before he kicked for the Green Bay Packers in Superbowl I." Or, "I got so wasted I had to have my stomach pumped at last year's Cocktail Party."  

I'm not going to go tit for tat on UF's achievements or traditions, rather, that UCF may have a major college population, but it's not a major school.  And it definitely isn't in football.  I'm not a judge on a panel that decides this stuff.  I'm just the messenger.

Here's an analogy:  Sony entered the video game market in 1995, and Microsoft entered the market in 2002.  The only reason Sony and Microsoft were successful, was because SEGA dropped out of it and their only competitor was Nintendo.  In college football, UCF's competitor is 3 established football schools within Florida, and everyone else that recruits from out of state in Florida, like TOSU, UGA, Bama, Clemson, Nebraska, etc., etc.  The only thing UCF can offer is cheaper tuition and perhaps a more convenient option.  That's not enough.

 

[spenser1058]

With all due respect, that’s incorrect. Many of the decisions made about conference realignment had to do with the size of media markets that would be gained with various schools. 

Almost everything  done in college football in the past decade has been about money (do you know how many bowls ESPN controls or outright owns? That the CFP is not about the NCAA but ESPN and maximizing revenues for the largest schools?) I’m sorry, but your version of college football, if it ever existed, has been gone for a generation or more.

Further, college football could care less about merit scholars (Vanderbilt merged with the Peabody teacher’s college so that they could have a place to send athletes who couldn’t begin to meet VU’s standards otherwise.) The University of Alabama is not now and never has been an academic powerhouse (Auburn is infamous for taking Florida students that couldn’t get accepted in our state schools - it’s one of the few ways they could convince people to go to school in lower Alabama.)

Further, UCF is notes for having not only one of the highest graduation rates for student-athletes in the NCAA but also a relatively high GPA. Compare that to the SEC.  So, not sure where you’re getting on your high horse about academics anyway.

But put that all aside because that’s irrelevant. College football is about butts on bleachers and eyeballs on TV sets. 

For the record: UCF is in the top 30 for National Merit Scholars  - 13th among public universities and 2nd in Florida:

https://www.ucf.edu/admissions/undergraduate/national-merit/

Oh and just for fun: Walkethub ranks Orlando #2 in the nation as Best College City right behind Austin.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-college-cities-and-towns-in-america/8974/

Edited December 11, 2018 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

Yeah,  I don't agree with 90% of what @jrs2 posted.  The overarching premise is right, in that... it takes a LONG time to be added to the tradition of college football.  I will *never* understand why UF fans have a hatred for OSU (ok, I get why but I can't comprehend why a brain would operate like that), but one of my favorite comebacks when they start talking trash is about how they weren't relevant until the 90s and how it took them more than 50 years to win a conference title.

But saying it will never happen and all that about tradition is off base.  UCF is building their traditions.  They've only had an on-campus stadium for a decade.  Knights on the mall / the open container suspension / gameday this year... it's all building tradition.  5- 10 years from now, they can absolutely be on par with schools of medium to high ilk.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

Yeah,  I don't agree with 90% of what @jrs2 posted.  The overarching premise is right, in that... it takes a LONG time to be added to the tradition of college football.  I will *never* understand why UF fans have a hatred for OSU (ok, I get why but I can't comprehend why a brain would operate like that), but one of my favorite comebacks when they start talking trash is about how they weren't relevant until the 90s and how it took them more than 50 years to win a conference title.

But saying it will never happen and all that about tradition is off base.  UCF is building their traditions.  They've only had an on-campus stadium for a decade.  Knights on the mall / the open container suspension / gameday this year... it's all building tradition.  5- 10 years from now, they can absolutely be on par with schools of medium to high ilk.

And don’t forget Spirit Splash!

https://today.ucf.edu/9-things-know-attending-spirit-splash/?amp

According to jrs, Rutgers was brought into the Big 10 for the high quality of football they play and the rich traditions they bring instead of access to the NYC media market. Sure they were!

Edited December 11, 2018 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Yeah,  I don't agree with 90% of what @jrs2 posted.  The overarching premise is right, in that... it takes a LONG time to be added to the tradition of college football.  I will *never* understand why UF fans have a hatred for OSU (ok, I get why but I can't comprehend why a brain would operate like that), but one of my favorite comebacks when they start talking trash is about how they weren't relevant until the 90s and how it took them more than 50 years to win a conference title.

But saying it will never happen and all that about tradition is off base.  UCF is building their traditions.  They've only had an on-campus stadium for a decade.  Knights on the mall / the open container suspension / gameday this year... it's all building tradition.  5- 10 years from now, they can absolutely be on par with schools of medium to high ilk.

I don’t remember dogging TOSU in any of my posts recently...

Anyway, UF fans don’t take issue with TOSU.  UF is 2-0 against TOSU in football.  

Talking trash about UF’s accomplishments in the SEC is funny coming from TOSU.

Back to UCF.  Not off base at all.  

You said “building their traditions.”  Present participle.  UF and the other P5 have already BUILT their traditions.

You talked about how UF didn’t become relevant until the ‘90’s.  Last I checked, TOSU wasn’t even relevant in the ‘80’s, the decade prior, let alone the entire time post-Hayes and pre-Sweater Vest sans one year where Eddie George won the Heisman.  And didn’t Sweater Vest get fired because of recruiting violations?  Been there, done that, so it’s all good.

[dcluley98]

I am a national merit scholar. UCF recruited me hard to go there. I went to UF, but UCF was a top 5 candidate due to their heavy recruiting and offering great scholarships to boost their academics. In the end, the school was not as good as UF, so I went to UF. (GA-tech was 2nd choice, UNC 3rd choice).  I wanted to stay in state for the tuition and scholarship money, so UCF and USF were also high up on the list still despite their lack of academic reputation at the time. In retrospect, UCF would not have been a bad choice. Cache does not matter as much as you would think unless you are going to an Ivy or top-top engineering school. I am happy I went to UF. I learned a lot, and had no debt when I graduated. UCF would have likely been fine too, though.   

Edited December 12, 2018 by dcluley98

[spenser1058]

If only the oldest traditions matter, we might as well eliminate UF since it wasn’t founded until 1853. Only schools like Harvard, William & Mary and St. John’s count since they were all started in the 1600’s. Or, heck, just ditch them all together in favor of European schools that predate Harvard by centuries.

Seems like that might be a slippery slope to hang your visor on (especially for the Gators since UGa has them beat by almost 70 years.)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

21 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I don’t remember dogging TOSU in any of my posts recently...

Apologies, wasn't meant to imply you were.

22 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Anyway, UF fans don’t take issue with TOSU.  UF is 2-0 against TOSU in football.  

I know many, MANY UF fans and alumni that hate OSU (and vice versa).  The combination of the football/basketball games in 07, followed by Urban doing whatever it is Urban does then coming to OSU made a lot of Gators dislike us.  I don't personally get it.  I agree with your sentiment.

25 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Talking trash about UF’s accomplishments in the SEC is funny coming from TOSU.

[...]

You talked about how UF didn’t become relevant until the ‘90’s.  Last I checked, TOSU wasn’t even relevant in the ‘80’s, the decade prior, let alone the entire time post-Hayes and pre-Sweater Vest sans one year where Eddie George won the Heisman.  And didn’t Sweater Vest get fired because of recruiting violations?  Been there, done that, so it’s all good.

Again, I have no problem with UF, not sure why you're trying to turn this into a pissing match.  My roommate of 3 years went to grad school there, my first friend in Orlando went there, I've been actively trying to find a good weekend when OSU has a bye to go to a game at The Swamp.

But since you brought it up, we did win 7 Big Ten titles and 6 times finished the year in the top 10 during the Bruce / Cooper years.  Roughly every 3rd year since there were 22 seasons.  Yeah, there were some lean years at the end of Bruce's tenure that carried over into the beginning of Coopers, but still had 9+ wins in 14 of the 22 seasons.  OSU has largely been relevant since WW2.

And no, Tressel was fired for lying about tattoos, nothing involving recruiting.

[Uncommon]

[aent]

6 hours ago, jrs2 said:

It's all about brand, and UCF doesn't have it. 

If it's perhaps the largest U by population (it's not by infrastructure, and definitely not by National Merit Scholars population, and definitely nowhere remotely near where it needs to be ala endowments, and so many other categories it's sick), then it's all just fluff, and nothing more.  Ride the coattails of the population of it's student body, which is fine, but at the end of the day, it is a hollow shell with no depth, 

UCF has no "pull" with the media because it has no brand.

ESPN likely doesn't want to create (or allow) any new brands in college football because they have plenty of content, and if the P5 conferences expand (without pulling from each other) ESPN will likely just be stuck paying more but not really being able to air anymore games. There's plenty of content for them to put on their network, its not helpful for them to have more. But regardless, if you look at the TV ratings for UCF, they've been pretty dominate, UCF's NY6 bowl appearances have consistently been literally the best TV ratings for those bowls. There other TV appearances often are best in the time slot in recent years. And UCF's been leading in sports infrastructure, with the first indoor field house for college football in the state, and staying on top of keeping the facilities top notch to attract the players, which unlike in the past where they were solely focused on tradition, the modern generation seems to enjoy better amenities (just like in pro stadiums).

6 hours ago, jrs2 said:

They will never have a 100k seat stadium, a large fan base, a football legacy in a P5 conference for 90+ years, well-known rivalry games, etc., etc. 

There probably will be no more 100k seat stadiums anymore... schools like UF, after selling out for decades, are struggling to fill seats. Between better TV coverage/quality and even more competition for entertainment dollars, its just tough to fill up that many 100k stadiums these days. And the pro sports have made it clear its all about amenities now, the sport alone cannot fill them up. Thats why there's investment in creating cabanas on the field, adding a lazy river and "covegating" which UF doesn't have. UCF's finding new ways to compete with the legacy and tradition, the simple fact is its working, UCF's growth through the past 15 years has been pretty much unmatched.

6 hours ago, jrs2 said:

You are applying the standard of a growing metro to a growing football program.  Key word being "growing."  Nobody will care about UCF when you've got the history of all of the P% conference schools to compare to, and other G5 or whatever schools that have much more tradition than UCF does.. 

Orlando Metro is fast growing and it's numbers turns heads, but that standard and type of notoriety does not apply or translate to college football and WILL NEVER APPLY TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL. 

Except if the TV markets declare they do. And UCF's TV ratings disagree with that.

[jrs2]

Look, all you guys made some good points.  But at the end of the day, you have Ohio State- Michigan, The Iron Bowl, The Red River Shootout, Bedlam, The Cocktail Party, The Horseshoe, The Big House, The Swamp, Happy Valley,  Clemson's rock; Death Valley (LSU and Clemson), Florida- Florida State, Florida State-Miami, USC vs UCLA, and so on.  Those rivalries all have players and coaches that have gone on and created legacies in the Pros, and they've made the cover of SI and other periodicals to boot.

UCF-Memphis?  The Bounce House? The War On I-4? That's the best one going for UCF, and appropriate, as it depicts a commuting scenario.  How many recruits say they want to play for UCF because they want to be part of X rivalry and be part of that history?

FSU built it's legacy becoming road warriors in the Late '70's.  UCF's legacy has been that of road (and home) fodder to P5 teams.  Look at my prior posts on this, something like 6-55 in those games.

Two undefeated seasons with an SOS of no higher than 77th and barely filling a 40k seat stadium gets you a seat on Thursday and Friday night ESPN; maybe a noon Saturday game or prime time if it's a conference championship game.  

Seriously, people?  Look at UCF's Frat and Sorority Rows?  Is there even one for sororities? UF has two distinct areas for both since like the 1950's, and other northern colleges since before even then, while UCF's look like a cookie cutter Waterford Lakes culdusac.  How many buildings on UCF's campus are on the historic register?  It's not just one thing.  All of this stuff matters.

Oh, and lastly, UCF is a directional school.  I'll leave it to you guys figure that one out. Only one school has ever shaken that stigma, Southern Cal.

[spenser1058]

I have to laugh when jrs keeps saying UCF is a nobody. In virtually everything you read about the FBS now, the Knights will come up. The SEC media, in particular, can’ t shut up about us.

Just today, the Athletic and the Bleacher Report are the latest to report the buzz on expanding the CFP. Who led the, ummm, charge on that?

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2810445-college-footballs-influential-voices-ready-to-discuss-8-team-playoff-format.amp.html

There was certainly a time that UCF was just another directional school. I think it’s safe to say those days are over because, despite what jrs seems to think, the 1950’s aren’t coming back and the only thing we know for sure is that change is constant.

[jrs2]

42 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I have to laugh when jrs keeps saying UCF is a nobody. In virtually everything you read about the FBS now, the Knights will come up. The SEC media, in particular, can’ t shut up about us.

Just today, the Athletic and the Bleacher Report are the latest to report the buzz on expanding the CFP. Who led the, ummm, charge on that?

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2810445-college-footballs-influential-voices-ready-to-discuss-8-team-playoff-format.amp.html

There was certainly a time that UCF was just another directional school. I think it’s safe to say those days are over because, despite what jrs seems to think, the 1950’s aren’t coming back and the only thing we know for sure is that change is constant.

Ah, so many points to make:

LOL.  Why are you so hung up on the '50's?  Was it the frat reference?

UCF needs to be a Toyota/ Lexus in the 1980's-'90's automotive industry to do or be what you're talking about.  But that only works when the competition, like Ford and GM, are putting out poor quality products.  In this fight, Ford and GM are instead putting out big sellers by 2010's standards, so Toyota/ Lexus will more or less end up being a Saturn.  UCF is a Saturn.

You think there's a trend favoring UCF, yet 4-7 UF is now 9-3 with a great coach and in the Top 10 with a great recruiting class in the making...just like that...and it will only get better the more traction Mullen gets.  UCF won't even  come close to matching what Miami or FSU will even do in recruiting this year, as bad as FSU was or disappointing as Miami was.  Why?  Because of their respective brands.  

As for directional schools, you heard of LA Monroe?  That is former NE LA University;  LA Lafayette?  That is former SW LA University Ragin Cajuns.  Directional schools. and the stigma that they are not top tier in their own states, so they change their name to change their perceived "status."

Next is school colors.  UCF doesn't have any; it's black and gold.  At least FSU has maroon (garnet (whatever)), ND has navy blue, UCLA has baby blue, Washington has purple, and BC has maroon.  I feel the same way about Vandy, MO, Purdue, Wake, and GaTech's "colors"  or lack thereof.  At least GaTech has done more with their combo to break out of this category somewhat.  Even USF has a color- green, to compliment the gold- light years better than UCF's.  At least the big P5 schools have real colors:  Crimson & Crème; Orange & Blue; Navy Blue & Maize; Scarlet & Grey; Orange & Purple; Tennessee Orange; etc..., you know the teams.  At least Boise State was blue (and orange) and was memorable.  UCF isn't memorable in that category.

Next is logo.  UCF's current logo has only been around since 2007, when they hired the Orlando Predators' marketing company to design their logo.  Personally, I think that was a big mistake.  Maybe that's why I can't take them seriously.  And that is a big deal in college football.  That uniform and helmet are like the flag- if you keep changing it, then people lose interest, and you lose the "brand." 

UCF will play a school with an awesome uniform and logo in the bowl game.

And Danny White needs to get off his high horse and stop blaming other schools' unwillingness to give UCF a 1 & 1 as to the reason why their SOS stinks and just take the cards they have been dealt; stop holding out for that special managerial job and just get a job- any job,  and bring in some income for your hard working spouse.  A far cry from the 1981 Seminoles' created mantra of "road warriors" that would play "anyone, anywhere, and anytime."  UCF tried that and lost a bunch and now they are "demanding" home and away matchups.   So who the hec does UCF think they are?  Notre Dame is in the midst of a home and away matchup with UGA.  Why?  Because they are two big named schools that stand to gain something from playing each other. 

Nobody stands to gain anything from playing UCF.  Why? Because regardless of record in 2017 & 2018, UCF is nothing more than a 21 year Div. 1-A G5 (or whatever) commuter school, with an 11 year old on campus stadium tradition, with a bad "color" scheme and logo uniform that's also only 11 years old, where only 3 or 4 out of those 11 seasons did they have a good record (against a very weak SOS).

This isn't trash talking.  I'm being a realist about UCF but a lot of you just don't get it or just don't want to get it, and that's fine.

[spenser1058]

And yet, the Gators are ranked beneath our poor pitiful selves AGAIN. There’s only one thing to do:

Charge On!

[aent]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

This isn't trash talking.  I'm being a realist about UCF but a lot of you just don't get it or just don't want to get it, and that's fine.

Or you're flat out wrong. Scoreboard, sir, scoreboard. The media pushes what they wanted, UCF clearly out recruited UF in recent years, thats why they are 25 and 0.

I'm also genuinely curious: if insulting another school's colors and logo isn't trash talking but instead being a realist, can you please demonstrate what trash talking is?