Soccer in Nashville

[Bos2Nash]

16 minutes ago, downtownresident said:

Ingram has offered an additional 19 million from the team  to go toward infrastructure costs, so that would equal out to the 69 million total pledged toward infrastructure. As for costs above that, I’m not sure who would be responsible. 

The expo buildings were part of the $50million, right?  If so, that would be approximately $29 million in available money to actual infrastructure as I understand it, which is good. With the expo buildings being $15 million over projected costs, this money infusion should hopefully cover that cost concern. Let’s just hope $29 million is enough. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Bos2Nash

[Armacing]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 1:34 PM, smeagolsfree said:

But then you have to have infrastructure work done and that much land is not cheap in Nashville.

Don't worry about it.  The developers are rich, they can afford it!

[Armacing]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 5:14 PM, MLBrumby said:

 he's p!ssing off a billionaire

That's a good point.  Nothing makes a billionaire more angry that to find out that their newest project will not be financed by local taxpayers.

[markhollin]

We have started a thread to focus in on government interaction with developments, so if you have comments about how the Mayor, etc. are involved with the stadium and fairgrounds issues in regards to this project.  This way we can keep discussion here on actual stadium construction, soccer growth in the city, etc.  Here's the link:
 

 

[Armacing]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 7:34 PM, PaulChinetti said:

 Cooper has flexed his mayorial muscle and gotten more concessions from Ingram/the Team.

I'm not a fan of Cooper, but you do make a good observation above.  Does this mean that Cooper is a better negotiator or the original negotiators were incompetent?  Just thinking that if I were a Davidson county tax payer I would want someone to drive a hard bargain with developers when it comes to my tax money.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Armacing

[markhollin]

Info on 'Parcel 8C' which is the sticking point in the current MLS Stadium delays.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/04/parcel-8-c-land-nashville-mls-stadium-delays/4647162002/

[PaulChinetti]

"The basics are: team ownership has offered to fund all additional infrastructure costs and make the stadium 100 percent privately funded. The mayor continues to hold up demolition of buildings that the Council approved for demolition over a roughly-3-acre parcel of land that the Council approved for development."

What Colby is saying today is his newsletter. It's the 8C parcel that Cooper is now having a problem with since, Ingram and the team are bending on everything else.

 

Also I'm sure completely out of the blue, this legislation is up for 2nd reading tonight.
 

"Legislation regarding parking near entertainment venues is on second reading tonight. Given all the other discussions over the past week regarding the stadium footprint, I am very wary (and weary!) of this legislation. "

The bill is about parking too close to stadiums or racetracks...

https://www.nashville.gov/Metro-Clerk/Legislative/Ordinances/Details/c8787ce2-4b8d-419f-87a8-de1109250773/2019-2023/BL2020-115.aspx

Edited February 4, 2020 by PaulChinetti
addition

[ruraljuror]

25 minutes ago, Armacing said:

I'm not a fan of Cooper, but you do make a good observation above.  Does this mean that Cooper is a better negotiator or the original negotiators were incompetent?  Just thinking that if I were a Davidson county tax payer I would want someone to drive a hard bargain with developers when it comes to my tax money.

Cooper isn't driving a hard bargain here, he's reneging on a bargain that had already been struck. This is what's known as (at best) negotiating in bad faith, or (at worst) extortion.

It's not that Cooper is a better negotiator than the previous negotiators, it's that he's using leverage the previous negotiators didn't have available to them - specifically that Ingram has already bought the franchise and has a lot of sunk costs here which Cooper is willing to exploit for a minimal short-term gain while gambling that Ingram won't sue to enforce the contracts that are already in place.

The thing about negotiating in bad faith is that it can be a very effective negotiation tactic...but just once. Because once you've shown yourself publicly to be the type of person who will negotiate in bad faith, then there will be a lot fewer parties who are willing to negotiate with you at all in the first place.

It may look to the mayor like a win in the short run, but we've already seen the effect that Cooper's bad faith has had on other opportunities that might have come to Nashville (like Oracle) that would have been a lot more valuable than however many millions he's trying to squeeze out of NSC after the fact. 

It's not only bad for Nashville economically, it's juvenile, short-sighted, and embarrassing that our city will have a reputation for being deal-breakers for the foreseeable future. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by ruraljuror

[DDIG]

25 minutes ago, Armacing said:

I'm not a fan of Cooper, but you do make a good observation above.  Does this mean that Cooper is a better negotiator or the original negotiators were incompetent?  Just thinking that if I were a Davidson county tax payer I would want someone to drive a hard bargain with developers when it comes to my tax money.

It is no longer about "the deal" - the 8C hangup suggests its now all about racing. Racing appeals to Cooper's demo. Removing 8C makes sure the raceway has more flexibility to upgrade.

It is interesting the dichotomy - soccer fandom is diverse, young and growing. Racing fandom is old, dwindling and non-diverse. Guess which one Cooper is showing favor to?

Edited February 4, 2020 by DDIG

[Bos2Nash]

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

"The basics are: team ownership has offered to fund all additional infrastructure costs and make the stadium 100 percent privately funded. The mayor continues to hold up demolition of buildings that the Council approved for demolition over a roughly-3-acre parcel of land that the Council approved for development."

What Colby is saying today is his newsletter. It's the 8C parcel that Cooper is now having a problem with since, Ingram and the team are bending on everything else.

 

Also I'm sure completely out of the blue, this legislation is up for 2nd reading tonight.
 

"Legislation regarding parking near entertainment venues is on second reading tonight. Given all the other discussions over the past week regarding the stadium footprint, I am very wary (and weary!) of this legislation. "

The bill is about parking too close to stadiums or racetracks...

https://www.nashville.gov/Metro-Clerk/Legislative/Ordinances/Details/c8787ce2-4b8d-419f-87a8-de1109250773/2019-2023/BL2020-115.aspx

I appreciate the loose interpretation of "privately funded". I guess that means that the team is paying everything back with private money, which is great! 100% privately funded to me is defined that no private money is used ah la the revenue bonds would go away. But that is obviously not the case so please don't try to twist my interpretation and tell me it's wrong.

The second reading portion of this definitely is concerning. While I agree with the intent of what this revision stands for in moving parking away from these structures - including an existing structure - this motion should have been brought up during the process way back when. The fact that it is brought up now is in fact obstructionist. It is clearly trying to make 8C only usable for buildings without parking or pedestrian. Again this is an ideal thing, but because of the timing makes it bad.

While I know many on here probably view my recent comments on this topic as agreeing with the mayor, I was speaking from the aspect that any extra costs beyond the $50 million GO bonds and $275 revenue bonds should be covered by the team and I thought Cooper was good to make sure the team covered those added costs. Once Cooper secured that, his job was done, period. He looked out for the city as a whole in terms of cost implications, but now the pandering to change the land use is petty. That's not to say that Parcel 8C should come under tight scrutiny when the official design is released, but the agreed use should stand as agreed. It should not be hard to factor the proximity of the racetrack and stadium into the design of whatever gets designed there and if there is safety concerns, designers can work with that. Each structure will have to be examined on it's own through codes and planning, so place the scrutiny there. 

1 hour ago, DDIG said:

It is no longer about "the deal" - the 8C hangup suggests its now all about racing. Racing appeals to Cooper's demo. Removing 8C makes sure the raceway has more flexibility to upgrade.

Racing in general should have appealed to the council during the process, but that is beside the point at this stage. 8C should be included in the deal as agreed, but some added scrutiny should be brought to the structure that will be designed there.

1 hour ago, DDIG said:

It is interesting the dichotomy - soccer fandom is diverse, young and growing. Racing fandom is old, dwindling and non-diverse. Guess which one Cooper is showing favor to?

This statement really bothers me. Racing fans are extremely diverse and racing as whole is one of the most diverse sports the world has due to all the variations that exist. As a fan of many variations of racing and someone who has personally raced I have seen this first hand. There are many young fans of racing and many metrics point to racing growing more and more, so your blatant profile is quite honestly disrespectful and wrong. Metro would greatly benefit from improving the conditions of the speedway. Not only would Nascar potentially come back, but the local racers could benefit from added attention around their events, bring in an SCCA club and do club racing at and around the track. The benefits are there, the city just ignored the possibility.

Cooper is pandering to the SoF people, and the racetrack people ended up having to agree with them on many things, because the council were essentially refusing to look at the racetrack as an existing entity. The way they handled the negotiation portion basically turned their back on the racetrack as if they would not be there in 5/10 years, which is shameful on the councils part seeing as it is a city owned track and they would profit greatly from its improvement, especially next to the soccer stadium. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Bos2Nash

[Armacing]

1 hour ago, DDIG said:

It is interesting the dichotomy - soccer fandom is diverse, young and growing. Racing fandom is old, dwindling and non-diverse. Guess which one Cooper is showing favor to?

Maybe those racing promoters are banking on a renewed racetrack to capture a new generation of young racing enthusiasts?  It probably goes in cycles of popularity like lots of different sports.  If you look on the streets of my neighborhood the only sport being played is Cricket.  Does that make Cricket the new avant-garde sport because it is played by the youngest and most ethnically diverse residents in Williamson county?  I'm just saying don't judge a sport by the current demographics of its attendees because that can change over time.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Armacing

[DDIG]

Just now, Armacing said:

Maybe those racing promoters are banking on a renewed racetrack to capture a new generation of young racing enthusiasts?  It probably goes in cycles of popularity like lots of different sports.  If you look on the streets of my neighborhood the only sport being played is Cricket.  Does that make Cricket the new avant-garde sport because it is played by the youngest and most ethnically diverse residents in Williamson county?  I'm just saying don't judge a sport by the current demographics of its attendees because that can change over time.

Fair. And yes NASCAR wants to get back into short track racing.

3 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I appreciate the loose interpretation of "privately funded". I guess that means that the team is paying everything back with private money, which is great! 100% privately funded to me is defined that no private money is used ah la the revenue bonds would go away. But that is obviously not the case so please don't try to twist my interpretation and tell me it's wrong.

The second reading portion of this definitely is concerning. While I agree with the intent of what this revision stands for in moving parking away from these structures - including an existing structure - this motion should have been brought up during the process way back when. The fact that it is brought up now is in fact obstructionist. It is clearly trying to make 8C only usable for buildings without parking or pedestrian. Again this is an ideal thing, but because of the timing makes it bad.

While I know many on here probably view my recent comments on this topic as agreeing with the mayor, I was speaking from the aspect that any extra costs beyond the $50 million GO bonds and $275 revenue bonds should be covered by the team and I thought Cooper was good to make sure the team covered those added costs. Once Cooper secured that, his job was done, period. He looked out for the city as a whole in terms of cost implications, but now the pandering to change the land use is petty. That's not to say that Parcel 8C should come under tight scrutiny when the official design is released, but the agreed use should stand as agreed. It should not be hard to factor the proximity of the racetrack and stadium into the design of whatever gets designed there and if there is safety concerns, designers can work with that. Each structure will have to be examined on it's own through codes and planning, so place the scrutiny there. 

Racing in general should have appealed to the council during the process, but that is beside the point at this stage. 8C should be included in the deal as agreed, but some added scrutiny should be brought to the structure that will be designed there.

This statement really bothers me. Racing fans are extremely diverse and racing as whole is one of the most diverse sports the world has due to all the variations that exist. As a fan of many variations of racing and someone who has personally raced I have seen this first hand. There are many young fans of racing and many metrics point to racing growing more and more, so your blatant profile is quite honestly disrespectful and wrong. Metro would greatly benefit from improving the conditions of the speedway. Not only would Nascar potentially come back, but the local racers could benefit from added attention around their events, bring in an SCCA club and do club racing at and around the track. The benefits are there, the city just ignored the possibility.

Cooper is pandering to the SoF people, and the racetrack people ended up having to agree with them on many things, because the council were essentially refusing to look at the racetrack as an existing entity. The way they handled the negotiation portion basically turned their back on the racetrack as if they would not be there in 5/10 years, which is shameful on the councils part seeing as it is a city owned track and they would profit greatly from its improvement, especially next to the soccer stadium. 

Yes, I probably generalized too much on sports fandoms. Apologies for that. 

[Bark At The Sun]

Hopefully the diverse, young and growing soccer fans get out there and buy the tickets.   This will all look ridiculous if they are averaging 7-9K a game at Nissan Stadium.

[DDIG]

4 minutes ago, Bark At The Sun said:

Hopefully the diverse, young and growing soccer fans get out there and buy the tickets.   This will all look ridiculous if they are averaging 7-9K a game at Nissan Stadium.

They've sold more than 30k as of right now for the first game. I imagine that number could get up over 40k. We'll see if they can sustain it for home matches though. 

[titanhog]

I have no problem with someone trying to make sure the soccer stadium and racetrack can co-exist...and that both get what they need to be successful.  But...there is a timeline here that needs to be met for soccer and if Cooper wants to get something done with Ingram, he needs to sit down with Ingram and hash this out like a man and not leave the table until they both shake hands and get this thing going.  Otherwise...he's just being a guy who is insisting on "getting his way or the highway"...which is becoming the political norm for many these days.

[nashvylle]

9 minutes ago, titanhog said:

I have no problem with someone trying to make sure the soccer stadium and racetrack can co-exist...and that both get what they need to be successful.  But...there is a timeline here that needs to be met for soccer and if Cooper wants to get something done with Ingram, he needs to sit down with Ingram and hash this out like a man and not leave the table until they both shake hands and get this thing going.  Otherwise...he's just being a guy who is insisting on "getting his way or the highway"...which is becoming the political norm for many these days.

I think they have already done that, over 4 months. 

[Rockatansky]

1 hour ago, Bos2Nash said:

Racing fans are extremely diverse

[Armacing]

7 minutes ago, Rockatansky said:

I would be interested to hear your take on the attendee demographics at a predators game.

[DMilner]

2 hours ago, Armacing said:

I would be interested to hear your take on the attendee demographics at a predators game.

100% more diverse than a race. 

[titanhog]

51 minutes ago, DMilner said:

100% more diverse than a race. 

Explain, please.

[nashvylle]

let's please focus on soccer and not diversity of fans for particular sports

[smeagolsfree]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:58 PM, Luvemtall said:

I  know you all will think I'm completely crazy, but there's 1400 acres available at the Nashville super speedway site . Complete with a nascar approved racetrack, and a 4 lane interstate interchange. Mr.Ingram and NSC , can make a deal to operate both venues, build some hotels and restaurants and rake in the benefits. This place is just sitting there ready to go. Right on the Wilson/ Rutherford county lines. Two of the fastest growing counties in the MSA . Think about it, most major cities have there sporting venues outside of the core. Heck , there's even room for an amusement park/ state fair. 

That is all owned by a private industrial developer now.

[DMilner]

16 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Explain, please.

Sure. I’m a full season ticket holder with the Preds; I also live in Wedgewood-Houston. We get a large group of neighbors to go to one or two races a year and we’ve been doing it for years. Based on the hundreds of Preds games I’ve been and quite a few races, I can say my experience is the Preds games are much more diverse than the races. I’m not sure what’s confusing about my previous post. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by DMilner

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, DMilner said:

Sure. I’m a full season ticket holder with the Preds; I also live in Wedgewood-Houston. We get a large group of neighbors to go to one or two races a year and we’ve been doing it for years. Based on the hundreds of Preds games I’ve been and quite a few races, I can say my experience is the Preds games are much more diverse than the races. I’m not sure what’s confusing about my previous post. 

In the end...the majority of fans for hockey and stock car racing are caucasian.   To say one is 100% more diverse than the other is a bit exaggerative...unless you're saying it's more diverse because it's an international sport (still mostly caucasian).

[japan]

Bottom line is that a deal is a deal. Regardless of your opinions on money for billionaires and corporate welfare.