Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[Spartan]

5 hours ago, Silicon Dogwoods said:

Because its summers are brutally hot?

Because it's brutally flat?

[ahem]

I didn't know this about Columbia. Brutalism had its day in the 60s and 70s; maybe a lot of it got built then. Is it government stuff? Given brutalism's concrete forms, raw finishes and sometimes few, small windows I would think it's relatively inexpensive as well. So easy to build on a cheap state budget.

Have you been to Columbia? 1) It's not brutally hot. It's "Famously Hot"  ... get it right!   2)It's not at all flat, and 3) there are only a few brutalist buildings. They are, however, fairly prominent. The Richland County Courthouse is very much in your face if you drive south on Assembly Street. The front side of the USC School of Law building on S Main Street is a good example of bad brutalism. Columbia does, however, have a lot of examples of mid-century international style buildings that are just awful. 

[Silicon Dogwoods]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Have you been to Columbia? 1) It's not brutally hot. It's "Famously Hot"  ... get it right!   2)It's not at all flat, and 3) there are only a few brutalist buildings. They are, however, fairly prominent. The Richland County Courthouse is very much in your face if you drive south on Assembly Street. The front side of the USC School of Law building on S Main Street is a good example of bad brutalism. Columbia does, however, have a lot of examples of mid-century international style buildings that are just awful. 

Yes, a couple times. I seem to remember a slope or two. And I drove through it on my way to Disgusta a couple years ago.

Oh, sorry...it's famous! for...Nikki Haley, hot Republican! and filled with hills and dales just waiting to be explored and...

 

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Silicon Dogwoods

[Nick2]

I can't stand that awful tagline they developed for the city. It's so bad but also incredibly accurate. The summers in Cola are what's really brutal.

A lot of them do seem to fit into the timeline of the 60s and 70s for when they were built and are also university/government funded.

Here are some examples that I found (I might be wrongly thinking some of these are brutalist):

USC Humanities Office Building

USC Coker Science Building

Bates West Dorm

Strom Thurmond Federal Building

Christopher Tower

Finlay House

Middleborough Condominiums

Senate Plaza

 

[Dale]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 4:57 PM, Silicon Dogwoods said:

Yes, a couple times. I seem to remember a slope or two. And I drove through it on my way to Disgusta a couple years ago.

Oh, sorry...it's famous! for...Nikki Haley, hot Republican! and filled with hills and dales just waiting to be explored and...

 

 

Republican women are hotter.

[jednc]

Is there any way to wander back to discussing the Observer site?

[Silicon Dogwoods]

1 hour ago, Nick2 said:

I can't stand that awful tagline they developed for the city. It's so bad but also incredibly accurate. The summers in Cola are what's really brutal.

A lot of them do seem to fit into the timeline of the 60s and 70s for when they were built and are also university/government funded.

Here are some examples that I found (I might be wrongly thinking some of these are brutalist):

USC Humanities Office Building

USC Coker Science Building

Bates West Dorm

Strom Thurmond Federal Building

Christopher Tower

Finlay House

Middleborough Condominiums

Senate Plaza

 

I would call these knock-off internationalist style built cheaply with concrete which brings brutalism to mind.

Maybe an architect could opine?

[km1789]

this whole thread has me like:
 

 

 

[Nick2]

Yeah I'm not an architect so I won't pretend to know the distinction between what can and can't be considered brutalist.

That's a very specific video clip. 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Nick2

[15895]

So to bring it back to Simon and a retail center.

 

Obviously being in a central location is attractive, highway access, proximity to higher income neighborhoods, some LKN residents may Bypass Northlake, etc.

 

I was wondering if anyone thinks that they even considered mass transit on why a retail center could work. By the time it opens, there will be fixed rail to UNCC, CPCC, JCSU and J&W university. That's a lot of younger people who would come to the mall (now whether that's their target market, I'm not too sure).

 

i just think it's very exciting all the young people at UNCC that will now be heading to NoDa & Uptown & SouthEnd more. I think young people are important to the deserialization of uptown 

[CLTProductions]

23 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

So to bring it back to Simon and a retail center.

 

Obviously being in a central location is attractive, highway access, proximity to higher income neighborhoods, some LKN residents may Bypass Northlake, etc.

 

I was wondering if anyone thinks that they even considered mass transit on why a retail center could work. By the time it opens, there will be fixed rail to UNCC, CPCC, JCSU and J&W university. That's a lot of younger people who would come to the mall (now whether that's their target market, I'm not too sure).

 

i just think it's very exciting all the young people at UNCC that will now be heading to NoDa & Uptown & SouthEnd more. I think young people are important to the deserialization of uptown 

Yes, that has most definitely been a factor in the planning. Also, the process is starting to get moving here. A rezoning has been filed for the Church/Stonewall side of the block to eliminated all observer zoning and bring it back to regular old UMUD. This thing is going...

Edited March 2, 2016 by Jayvee

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Jayvee said:

Yes, that has most definitely been a factor in the planning. Also, the process is starting to get moving here. A rezoning has been filed for the Church/Stonewall side of the block to eliminated all observer zoning and bring it back to regular old UMUD. This thing is going...

****REMOVED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY****

Edited March 2, 2016 by Guest

[CLT2014]

This is getting exciting!!!

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

 

This is getting exciting!!!

I won't be excited until it happens. I have a hard time seeing a $1B+ project happening during this current upswing. It needs to happen though, IT JUST NEEDS TO. We won't be a complete Urban Area until it does. What will be interesting is seeing Design Center of the Carolinas, as it slowly converts to retail, Atherton Mill, Once Edens is done with its grand plan, and Lincoln Harris compete for Tenant. There could be every bit of 400-500k sq feet of retail between the three of them. I suspect SouthEnd will get trendier Tenants, and Uptown will get the Brooks Brothers of the world. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by Guest

[RaleighHeelsfan]

And what did you remove for ****REMOVED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY****

 

Inside information maybe???

[kermit]

^ it was something kinda like this (but not that exactly) considering a Charlotte outlet (no site specifics were given)

[Dale]

Maybe we can be like Miami. Retail growth there is off-the-hook:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2016/03/01/96-retail-space-occupancy-tops-florida/

[dcharlotte]

31 minutes ago, Dale said:

Maybe we can be like Miami. Retail growth there is off-the-hook:

http://www.miamitodaynews.com/2016/03/01/96-retail-space-occupancy-tops-florida/

That article just made me laugh. I'm not sure how anyone can take a look at a traffic problem and think that adding twonew condo towers, one hotel, two office buildings, and a mall in the middle of a neighborhood will HELP traffic when it opens. 

“Though Brickell is now plagued by seemingly insurmountable traffic problems, the situation will improve when Brickell City Centre opens, bringing 2,000 parking spaces to the area, Mr. Sheron predicted. “That will take a lot of cars off the road and free up space, keep rents on the rise and retailers and restaurateurs looking for opportunities.”

Additionally, Miami is helped a long by foreign buyers in our malls. The majority of our international traffic comes to Miami to load up on goods in America because it is cheaper than where they are from or simply unavailable. No viable malls in all of the Caribbean and few in South America on the scale of Miami.

Edited March 2, 2016 by dcharlotte

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, dcharlotte said:

That article just made me laugh. I'm not sure how anyone can take a look at a traffic problem and think that adding twonew condo towers, one hotel, two office buildings, and a mall in the middle of a neighborhood will HELP traffic when it opens. 

“Though Brickell is now plagued by seemingly insurmountable traffic problems, the situation will improve when Brickell City Centre opens, bringing 2,000 parking spaces to the area, Mr. Sheron predicted. “That will take a lot of cars off the road and free up space, keep rents on the rise and retailers and restaurateurs looking for opportunities.”

Additionally, Miami is helped a long by foreign buyers in our malls. The majority of our international traffic comes to Miami to load up on goods in America because it is cheaper than where they are from or simply unavailable. No viable malls in all of the Caribbean and few in South America on the scale of Miami.

BAHAHAHAHAHA. 

It'll take cars off the road *Eye Roll Emoji* I want some of that stuff they are smoking.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Guest

[Dale]

I'm a bigger picture guy. For all the hand-wringing about business cycles ... Miami is going bonkers.

[15895]

10 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I won't be excited until it happens. I have a hard time seeing a $1B+ project happening during this current upswing. It needs to happen though, IT JUST NEEDS TO. We won't be a complete Urban Area until it does. What will be interesting is seeing Design Center of the Carolinas, as it slowly converts to retail, Atherton Mill, Once Edens is done with its grand plan, and Lincoln Harris compete for Tenant. There could be every bit of 400-500k sq feet of retail between the three of them. I suspect SouthEnd will get trendier Tenants, and Uptown will get the Brooks Brothers of the world. 

 

Do you have a hard time seeing it because it's too good to be true or do you have a hard time seeing it making sense?

 

I'm excited. Based on the chatter. I said on the off topic thread in conversation with someone, they mentioned they worked with Simon. I was skeptical and jokingly asked if the "rumor" was true, of them doing a project uptown. He looked like a deer in the headlights, smiled and said Indianapolis (I think that was the city) likes to keep things quiet until deals are made. And he pleasantly but hesitantly said yes, they were kicking the tires uptown. So that made me go from thinking this was a pie in the sky gossip to thinking the rumors are legit.

 

If we got a Simon center uptown... I think we would be a city that many cities our size and smaller look to as a way to emulate.  And I think it would keep the cycle going a little longer and will increase convention business. That's just my opinion

Edited March 3, 2016 by AirNostrumMAD

[dcharlotte]

Malls have to go urban. Suburban malls will continue their decline with a few of them hanging on to be relevant. 

Charlotte is already ahead of the game when it comes to the 'retail transition' as I call it. The city already has an outlet mall within the city's near suburbs, a Mills Mall, and one regional mall and a smaller mall have already closed. If something gets built in Uptown quickly that would complete the retail landscape for some time.

Carolina Place or North Lake will suffer and one may close. Expect to see a lot of the first generation outlet malls close (Gafney, Conway) since those retailers have removed their distance restrictions as all of their stores offer different merchandise than their cousins. 

[southslider]

Northlake's expansion towards Target seems like a starting point to making that mall a little less insular, and a bit more connected to surrounding residential and open-air retail.

[Guest]

I do have insider info I'm keeping back. Mainly for confidentiality. I know pretty specific details on this project that at least two unrelated contacts have given me strikingly similar numbers. I can't confirm Simon, because neither could, but I can confirm we will add 2.5-3M sq feet of total uses with this project. Hotel, Retail, Residential, and Commercial. I suspect we will see phases, starting from Tryon towards BofA. 1/8-1/6 of the total sq footage will be retail. I posted the little nugget earlier as confirmation that LH is out there marketing their project and lining up tenants. Can't break down specifics, but here's a general idea of what I know, or at least have heard.

[Vitamin_N]

So that would make it 300-500K sq ft of retail, which I guess puts it in the same ballpark as Midtown Metropolitan? Or maybe the Epicenter?

[dcharlotte]

45 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I do have insider info I'm keeping back. Mainly for confidentiality. I know pretty specific details on this project that at least two unrelated contacts have given me strikingly similar numbers. I can't confirm Simon, because neither could, but I can confirm we will add 2.5-3M sq feet of total uses with this project. Hotel, Retail, Residential, and Commercial. I suspect we will see phases, starting from Tryon towards BofA. 1/8-1/6 of the total sq footage will be retail. I posted the little nugget earlier as confirmation that LH is out there marketing their project and lining up tenants. Can't break down specifics, but here's a general idea of what I know, or at least have heard.

Sounds like a good project. Is anyone attending ICSC to track them down?