Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[CltFlyer]

American is starting JFK-DOH on 6/7/22.

Lost in the article, however, is that CLT-Rome will be returning in Spring 2022!

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2021/Connecting-Customers-to-the-Middle-East-and-Beyond-American-Airlines-Announces-Service-to-Doha-Qatar-NET-ALP-12/default.aspx

 

[LKN704]

Suspending CLT-FCO always seemed bizarre to me, and as likely the only one of the suspended routes (BCN, CDG, FCO) that would be able to sustain 777 service. One could fill a 777 to Rome profitably from just about anywhere during the peak summer season.

CDG still seems like a good candidate to resume once AA receives A321XLRs. 

While financial compensation from Boeing is nice, it seems at this point that AA will be at a competitive disadvantage over the Atlantic next summer in comparison to DL and UA due to the 787 delays. AA only has 113 widebody aircraft in their fleet for intercontinental operations, compared to 137 (DL) and 213 (UA), not to mention both DL and UA have 757s that are capable of flying to Europe...UA is even utilizing their 737 MAX-8 to Portugal next summer.

[Clemson16]

Any idea how long it takes after announcements like this for the flights to become available to book?

[CltFlyer]

17 minutes ago, Clemson16 said:

Any idea how long it takes after announcements like this for the flights to become available to book?

The flights will become available for booking late Saturday Night/Early Sunday morning when they update the system.

[Desert Power]

On 10/12/2021 at 1:58 AM, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Delta has more service from LAX than you are acknowledging. 

Meanwhile, its Seattle with fewer domestic routes:

How do you generate a map like this?

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

11 hours ago, Desert Power said:

How do you generate a map like this?

Delta.com

[kayman]

CLT  needs to be looking at more direct non-stop flights to east Asia specifically Tokyo since Toyota and the other Japanese companies to follow the Toyota facility here in  NC.  This is must because routing things to DFW will be a handicap for economic development growth of more global industries.

[Desert Power]

3 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Delta.com

OK, I was trying to do something similar on Southwest a few weeks ago but there didn't seem an option. Was curious if there was a 3rd party application to view these.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

3 hours ago, kayman said:

CLT  needs to be looking at more direct non-stop flights to east Asia specifically Tokyo since Toyota and the other Japanese companies to follow the Toyota facility here in  NC.  This is must because routing things to DFW will be a handicap for economic development growth of more global industries.

AA needs to have their full order of 787s before anything like that can be considered.

[KJHburg]

5 hours ago, kayman said:

CLT  needs to be looking at more direct non-stop flights to east Asia specifically Tokyo since Toyota and the other Japanese companies to follow the Toyota facility here in  NC.  This is must because routing things to DFW will be a handicap for economic development growth of more global industries.

One only needs to look at Atlanta's nonstop to Korea to see how it will spur business.  Many Korean companies in the Atlanta area and elsewhere in Georgia.   A nonstop to Tokyo would be great for CLT and the entire 2 state region.   Who is a  Japanese partner airline of AA?

[a2theb]

15 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

One only needs to look at Atlanta's nonstop to Korea to see how it will spur business.  Many Korean companies in the Atlanta area and elsewhere in Georgia.   A nonstop to Tokyo would be great for CLT and the entire 2 state region.   Who is a  Japanese partner airline of AA?

JAL

 

No way we get any East Asia routes. It's just not going to happen with DAL and the news about turning SEATAC into their Asia gateway

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, a2theb said:

JAL

 

No way we get any East Asia routes. It's just not going to happen with DAL and the news about turning SEATAC into their Asia gateway

Never say never.  I do think our first flight to Asia will be to Japan sometime in the future.  and I am not thinking AA doing either. 

[Temeteron]

9 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Never say never.  I do think our first flight to Asia will be to Japan sometime in the future.  and I am not thinking AA doing either. 

This would be amazing but knowing Atlanta has the biggest Japanese population in the South it would make more sense there.  Let’s hope we get one of the Asian destinations at least.  

[allthingsplanes]

15 minutes ago, a2theb said:

JAL

 

No way we get any East Asia routes. It's just not going to happen with DAL and the news about turning SEATAC into their Asia gateway

Huh?  What are you talking about for SEATAC?

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

This would be amazing but knowing Atlanta has the biggest Japanese population in the South it would make more sense there.  Let’s hope we get one of the Asian destinations at least.  

They do but lots of Japanese businesses in Raleigh Durham mainly pharma and lots of companies from Japan in the Piedmont and now this huge Toyota plant in Greensboro. 

[a2theb]

2 hours ago, allthingsplanes said:

Huh?  What are you talking about for SEATAC?

Brian Znotins stated on a call back in September that they were going to move a large amount of their Asia load through Seattle citing increased competition from Asian competitors at LAX.  This was echoed by our AA rep the following month.

 

Who knows if it was a pie in the sky perfect world thing or what happens with Parker leaving but them starting SEA>BLR in January makes it seem that there is a bit of truth to it.

 

Edit: SEA>BLR appears DOA so this was probably all hoopla. Carry on.

Edited December 10, 2021 by a2theb

[TCLT]

5 hours ago, Desert Power said:

OK, I was trying to do something similar on Southwest a few weeks ago but there didn't seem an option. Was curious if there was a 3rd party application to view these.

GCMap can be used to create similar route maps.

[TCLT]

37 minutes ago, a2theb said:

Brian Znotins stated on a call back in September that they were going to move a large amount of their Asia load through Seattle citing increased competition from Asian competitors at LAX.  This was echoed by our AA rep the following month.

 

Who knows if it was a pie in the sky perfect world thing or what happens with Parker leaving but them starting SEA>BLR in January makes it seem that there is a bit of truth to it.

 

Edit: SEA>BLR appears DOA so this was probably all hoopla. Carry on.

AA is hoping to capitalize on the feed from their Alaska Airlines partnership, decreased competition, and corporate accounts (MSFT/AMZN/etc) in Seattle. Plus Seattle is an ideal connecting point for pretty much the entirety of the country to east and southeast Asia. SEA-BLR is just delayed at this point because of the shortage of widebodies, although it is unclear when it will actually start. But AA also intends to move Shanghai from LAX to SEA. DFW is going to be the primary gateway to Asia for AA with SEA covering additional frequencies or routes that simply cannot be flown from Dallas. LAX will be the gateway to Australia and New Zealand.

[CLT2014]

Asia flights aren't happening anytime soon. We didn't get the approval from the FAA to build a longer runway due to our low passenger count per day to Asia and lack of interest by airlines to start service to Asia. With our hot and humid temperatures, a longer runway was needed for fully loaded long haul aircraft to take off from CLT. We would require regular load limitations in the summer that would hurt the airline's profit margin on the route. ATL on the other hands has a 12,390 foot runway.

RDU is in the same boat. They didn't get approved for a runway extension either. 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by CLT2014

[kayman]

We'll have keep trying as ATL shouldn't be the only airport in this part of the world with direct non-stop Asian flights. CLT had much better logistics and positioning to be a huge east and south Asian business hub.  CLT will become better positioned a global air hub for 5 of the 6 inhabited continents (excluding South America because that's Miami). 

Edited December 10, 2021 by kayman

[CltFlyer]

9 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Asia flights aren't happening anytime soon. We didn't get the approval from the FAA to build a longer runway due to our low passenger count per day to Asia and lack of interest by airlines to start service to Asia. With our hot and humid temperatures, a longer runway was needed for fully loaded long haul aircraft to take off from CLT. We would require regular load limitations in the summer that would hurt the airline's profit margin on the route. ATL on the other hands has a 12,390 foot runway.

RDU is in the same boat. They didn't get approved for a runway extension either. 

 

When those runways were designed.  12,000 ft+ was required for a fully loaded plane to make it all the way from the east coast to far east Asia.  These days, 10,000 ft will suffice for a fully loaded modern aircraft (Boeing 787 or Airbus 350) to make it to Far East Asia.

See an airport like Boston who's longest runway is 10,086 feet, but they have flights to China, Japan, Korea, and the Middle East.

 

On the topic of the probability of flights eventually.  The Toyota plant and any industry that develops from it will be our most compelling reason yet for flights to Japan, but it may still not be enough.  An example being Nashville, where Nissan's North American HQ is, still doesn't justify a flight to Japan.  Though, CLT's hub status might help it's probability on the that front.

I recall an article from a few years ago saying that CLT was in initial talks with Hainan Airlines regarding flights to China in the future.  Who knows with Covid now though.

[TCLT]

When those runways were designed.  12,000 ft+ was required for a fully loaded plane to make it all the way from the east coast to far east Asia.  These days, 10,000 ft will suffice for a fully loaded modern aircraft (Boeing 787 or Airbus 350) to make it to Far East Asia.
See an airport like Boston who's longest runway is 10,086 feet, but they have flights to China, Japan, Korea, and the Middle East.
 
On the topic of the probability of flights eventually.  The Toyota plant and any industry that develops from it will be our most compelling reason yet for flights to Japan, but it may still not be enough.  An example being Nashville, where Nissan's North American HQ is, still doesn't justify a flight to Japan.  Though, CLT's hub status might help it's probability on the that front.
I recall an article from a few years ago saying that CLT was in initial talks with Hainan Airlines regarding flights to China in the future.  Who knows with Covid now though.

Hainan was also insolvent and is now restructuring as a much smaller airline. 2019 was the closest CLT will be to passenger flights to east Asia for a long time.

[tozmervo]

I guess I'm in the minority, but on a flight that long I really don't mind a layover half way through.

[kayman]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I guess I'm in the minority, but on a flight that long I really don't mind a layover half way through.

I do as well but for business and leisurely travels it would be great for CLT to evolve into the global air gateway for the Carolinas to Asia.

[KJHburg]

12 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I guess I'm in the minority, but on a flight that long I really don't mind a layover half way through.

It would be a long flight but a lot of people do like to get their with a few stops as possible.  On my long flights to Asia from US like from DFW to Hong Kong which is over 16 hours you have to get up and walk around a bit and I stood and talked to people in one of the galleys.  You watch a couple of movies and some tv shows and you are there (finally).   

Correct me if I am wrong but the only city with service to Asia from the southeast is Atlanta.   For a region this size and populated there is room for one more.