Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[CLT2014]

23 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Having gotten more and more acclimated to the airport since my family moved from Raleigh to Wilmington (CLT is a major connecting airport with ILM), I can say, this airport is far busier than I've seen LGA in the last few years. It is almost exhausting to get through because you just have to slam through people. It's really quite amazing to see.

Prior to the pandemic, CLT saw 50.2 million passengers in 2019 while La Guardia saw 30 million, so CLT handled 40% more passengers. American Airlines also operates a very traditional banked schedule at CLT, which results in a massive surge in passengers pouring into the terminals at the same time as ~80 to 100 planes all pull up to their gate in a 40 minute time span, passengers run around the terminals trying to make their 45 - 90 minute connection, and then the planes all push back an hour later roughly at the same time. It then gets quiet for 45 minutes and some of the American gates are eerily empty until the next bank of flights starts arriving and the madness ensues for another hour, et... repeating for each bank. 

I wish AA worked with the airport to help fund wider gates in their portion of the airport. If they wanted it, the airport would have made it happen as their main tenant, but I suspect they asked CLT to do the renovations as cheaply as possible with minimal disruptions to their flights. 

[LKN704]

Flew back to DC last night...nothing really to report. I did notice that I walked through what I would assume is the new ticketing lobby. You couldn't see anything (it felt like you were in a tunnel) although I did notice the automatic sliding glass entrance doors to the terminal seemed new/more modern (they were quite narrow...more so than the older doors and reminded me of Europe for some reason). 

On 12/28/2021 at 12:14 PM, CLT2014 said:

I wish AA worked with the airport to help fund wider gates in their portion of the airport. If they wanted it, the airport would have made it happen as their main tenant, but I suspect they asked CLT to do the renovations as cheaply as possible with minimal disruptions to their flights. 

The devil's advocate in me is wondering if the renovations were cheaply done because AA knows further structural improvements to the concourses will eventually take place (which will include widening them) so it was moot spending the money to fund a wider concourse now. 

 

 

[deleted account]

40 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

The devil's advocate in me is wondering if the renovations were cheaply done because AA knows further structural improvements to the concourses will eventually take place (which will include widening them) so it was moot spending the money to fund a wider concourse now

That's my impression, particularly in B and C.

[BarrenLucidity]

6 hours ago, JBS said:

That's my impression, particularly in B and C.

B and C will expand if you look at the plan.

[KJHburg]

From the Biz Journal:

""Through the first 11 months of 2021, CLT's passenger counts registered at 39.5 million — down 13.8% from 45.8 million in 2019, a record-breaking year for the airport, but up 58.7% from 24.9 million in 2020, when Covid-19 pummeled air travel.  A little more than 3.9 million people traveled through the Charlotte airport that month — about 163,100 passengers shy of the nearly 4.1 million people during November 2019, according to CLT's latest monthly airline and cargo activity summary.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/01/05/clt-traffic-figures-for-november.html

some drive by photos from an early morning drop off today

 

[JRCLT]

http://content.invisioncic.com/x329420/monthly_2022_01/IMG_7753.thumb.JPG.3c8561be6cc6d6dbc08c511da220833a.JPG

Skyline!

[queensguy06]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 

some drive by photos from an early morning drop off today

 

 

Off Topic:  Having left Charlotte several years ago I forget the ever present plume of the nuclear plant during winter. I grew up in Tega Cay on the lake pretty much right across from the nuclear plant. Every year we got a package from Duke/Catawba Nuclear Plant with contingency plans/evacuation routes in the event of a leak. They would include potassium iodide pills for each member in the household  

[JRCLT]

 
Off Topic:  Having left Charlotte several years ago I forget the ever present plume of the nuclear plant during winter. I grew up in Tega Cay on the lake pretty much right across from the nuclear plant. Every year we got a package from Duke/Catawba Nuclear Plant with contingency plans/evacuation routes in the event of a leak. They would include potassium iodide pills for each member in the household  

Nuclear power plants despite their stigma are incredibly clean, efficient and *considerably* safer than say… a coal power plant. Due to stringent measures they are safer than any other type of non-renewable power plant. Those are measures in the event that something goes terribly wrong in the worst case scenario. That plume you see is just water vapor and not radioactive as that water never comes in direct contact with the water physically cooling the reactor. It’s cool science! Some people think its dangerous, and it is, but it can be significantly safer than say coal, oil, or natural gas burning power plants that account for disproportionately more deaths. Deaths decrease in their respective order, N.G. Accounting for way less than the first two.

[CltFlyer]

As of yesterday the  C/D lounge is closed for at least 6 months for remodel/renovation.  
 
https://twitter.com/jtgenter/status/1479590674727063555?s=21

in the meantime they are going to open a temporary “ guest service center” as previously rumored.

 

https://twitter.com/americanair/status/1479626364965769217?s=21

 

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, CltFlyer said:

As of yesterday the  C/D lounge is closed for at least 6 months for remodel/renovation.  
 
https://twitter.com/jtgenter/status/1479590674727063555?s=21

in the meantime they are going to open a temporary “ guest service center” as previously rumored.

 

https://twitter.com/americanair/status/1479626364965769217?s=21

 

I was parked on c2 last night lounge was a ghost town.

[LKN704]

From what I am told the remodel will be very basic (new carpeting, new furniture, wall paneling, new bathroom finishes, new bar finishes) in nature...don't expect showers or anything like that. 

It's quite fascinating to me that the third largest airline hub in the world only has one operational club room. I get that there is limited space for additional lounges at CLT, and airline clubs aren't what they used to be (+Charlotte isn't really a premium market) but they are invaluable in times of IROPS...the reps at airline clubs are literal magicians.

To put it in perspective, DL has a whopping 5 club locations at their much-smaller Detroit hub (although the terminal there is practically brand new and custom built so it really isn't apples to apples), and UA has 4 club locations + a Business class lounge at their even smaller Dulles hub. 

[LKN704]

Southwest is dropping HOU (which I believe is already no longer operational) and DEN from CLT.  Last day for DEN service is 6/4.

They'll serve the following cities nonstop from CLT this summer: BWI (twice daily), MDW (thrice daily), STL (once daily), DAL (once daily), and BNA (twice daily), for a total of 8 flights daily. 

Cuts are blamed on "fleet shortages" even though they have more aircraft now than they had on property two years ago. Since then, they launched a number of new destinations and beefed up their Hawaii service so there simply aren't enough planes to go around, hence low-hanging fruit had to get dropped. 

Still, I believe DEN is Southwest's largest station so I am surprised they can't make it work...then again they had the lowest market share on CLT-DEN (UA/AA/Frontier also serve the route) so they may have decided it wasn't worth it. HOU is another large station, although I'm guessing the flight was more business oriented than others, and business traffic has still yet to resume. 

[CLT2014]

One of the hard things for Southwest in a market like Charlotte is they don't sell through aggregators so the only way to check the price is to specifically go to their own website. They don't have strong brand awareness or market share in Charlotte, so I don't think people go and check their website for a fare comparison as much as markets where they have really strong brand loyalty like California, Texas, Chicago, Baltimore, et...

At just 8 daily flights at an airport with 700+ their share is just so small and their frequency is too low on many routes to be competitive. In addition, their pricing is rarely significantly less on most routes out of Charlotte. I have family in Houston and check Southwest each time and the nonstop is always the same or more than American or United, but it has never been cheaper.

Edited January 11, 2022 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

HOU (Hobby) is Southwest's secondary hub and for their Caribbean and Mexican flights.  I have taken the flight to HOU several times and like it better than going through DAL Love Field.  

[LKN704]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

One of the hard things for Southwest in a market like Charlotte is they don't sell through aggregators so the only way to check the price is to specifically go to their own website. They don't have strong brand awareness or market share in Charlotte, so I don't think people go and check their website for a fare comparison as much as markets where they have really strong brand loyalty like California, Texas, Chicago, Baltimore, et...

At just 8 daily flights at an airport with 700+ their share is just so small and their frequency is too low on many routes to be competitive. In addition, their pricing is rarely significantly less on most routes out of Charlotte. I have family in Houston and check Southwest each time and the nonstop is always the same or more than American or United, but it has never been cheaper.

Indeed. I also found their schedule to/from Charlotte to be inconvenient that it wasn't worth it most of the time. 

As you said, they are really no longer the low fare airline they once were in the 1990s/early 2000s. I remember you used to be able to regularly buy $29-49 fares on all sorts of routes throughout their system. Now it seems such fares can only be found on intra-Texas and intra-California markets. They are nothing more than a legacy carrier now in terms of pricing, except they have a crappy frequent flyer program with no international partners, and offer free checked bags. The checked bags are a moot point in a fortress hub like Charlotte, where a good number of flyers either have status with AA or hold an AA credit card, both of which come with free checked bags. 

I also could be wrong, but I believe Charlotte may have been one of the stations that was outsourced a couple of years back. I vaguely recall reading in the news that they had wanted to outsource stations that had less than 12 flights/day, and the contract they made with their staff stipulated that any station served with more than that would have to be staff entirely by Southwest, so any expansion here they would have to insource and hire additional staff. 

[CltFlyer]

12 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Southwest is dropping HOU (which I believe is already no longer operational) and DEN from CLT.  Last day for DEN service is 6/4.

They'll serve the following cities nonstop from CLT this summer: BWI (twice daily), MDW (thrice daily), STL (once daily), DAL (once daily), and BNA (twice daily), for a total of 8 flights daily. 

Cuts are blamed on "fleet shortages" even though they have more aircraft now than they had on property two years ago. Since then, they launched a number of new destinations and beefed up their Hawaii service so there simply aren't enough planes to go around, hence low-hanging fruit had to get dropped. 

Still, I believe DEN is Southwest's largest station so I am surprised they can't make it work...then again they had the lowest market share on CLT-DEN (UA/AA/Frontier also serve the route) so they may have decided it wasn't worth it. HOU is another large station, although I'm guessing the flight was more business oriented than others, and business traffic has still yet to resume. 

For what it's worth.  Southwest is experiencing delays with Boeing 737 MAX7 shipments.  I imagine CLT-DEN will be back sooner rather than later.  It wouldn't be operating through May if it was performing poorly.  

I imagine HOU will be back at some point as well, but probably not until international demand fully returns.  HOU has always been a fringe market for WN and we are far from the only city losing HOU service (Cincinnati, Detroit, Milwaukee,  and Minneapolis lose it on 6/3.  They did attempt it on Sundays only for a while, but that schedule didn't make much sense imho.  There isn't much that HOU can do that can't be accomplished through DAL at this point.  

[KJHburg]

Carolinas Aviation Museum will be renamed to honor Capt. Sullenberger.  

Press release

https://www.carolinasaviation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/FINAL-Aviation-Museum-Press-Release-1.12.22-v2.pdf

though I did not know anyone personally on that flight I can tell you when we back in Charlotte heard all had survived it lifted the city's spirits.  It truly was a miracle! 

Edited January 16, 2022 by KJHburg

[CltFlyer]

CLT will be getting a destination on March 1st, 2022.  (Don't get too excited though).

Contour Airlines will begin service from Charlotte to Muscle Shoals, AL (MSL).

Flights will operate twice daily on Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday and once daily on Tuesday and Saturday.

Contour picked up the EAS (Essential Air Service) contract for Muscle Shoals and have chose CLT as the destination.  Flights will be on a Embraer ERJ-135 with 30 seats.

 

Contour currently operates the same schedule from CLT on flights to Beckley, WV with continuing service to Parkersburg, WV.  

Contour has the EAS contract for the Beckley/Parkersburg route through 2025.  

 

The new Muscle Shoals flights will put Contour at 4 daily flights on days with 2 daily flights on each route and 2 daily flights on days with 1 daily on each route.  

Flights are bookable on https://www.contourairlines.com/

As with the existing Beckley/Parkersburg flights.   Passengers can interline onto American Airlines.  

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by CltFlyer

[turbocraig]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:49 PM, KJHburg said:

Carolinas Aviation Museum will be renamed to honor Capt. Sullenberger.  

Press release

https://www.carolinasaviation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/FINAL-Aviation-Museum-Press-Release-1.12.22-v2.pdf

though I did not know anyone personally on that flight I can tell you when we back in Charlotte heard all had survived it lifted the city's spirits.  It truly was a miracle! 

I know two people that were on that flight!

[CltFlyer]

Update on the E Concourse Expansion per Facebook.  The pictures don't do a good job of showing the terrazzo flooring, but it looks like it is the same style as the latest renovations.

 

"Concourse E Expansion Phase 9 will open this spring, adding 34,000 square feet of new hold room space for 10 gates along with new concessions, a Pet Relief Area, Mother’s Room and new restrooms. #CLTairport "

 

 

 

 

[BarrenLucidity]

7 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

Update on the E Concourse Expansion per Facebook.  The pictures don't do a good job of showing the terrazzo flooring, but it looks like it is the same style as the latest renovations.

 

"Concourse E Expansion Phase 9 will open this spring, adding 34,000 square feet of new hold room space for 10 gates along with new concessions, a Pet Relief Area, Mother’s Room and new restrooms. #CLTairport "

 

Can't wait to see this terrazzo flooring look like unkept trash after 2 weeks like B&C. 

[Urban Cowboy]

The terrazzo in the renovated bathrooms is especially appalling. The airport needs to clean the white floors more often - they look disgusting in many of the bathrooms. Shades of brown/yellow. 

[Urban Cowboy]

The photos of the E expansion are very underwhelming. Granted, it's an improvement over the open air gates it's replacing. But it amazes me that the airport will give us A North and the plaza (both beautiful and functional). And then they give us this net new expansion that is a glorified barn. They could have done a soaring ceiling here and opened this up like the end of D, but this looks dark and small already (fitting for E). It's just disappointing because I've recently flown into the new New Orleans airport, the Harvey Milk terminal at SFO, new SLC terminal, and the DCA project journey concourse that replaced 35X-- and they all blow A North and the plaza out of the water. I get that we're a busy airport and can't shut down a concourse for construction, but for the amount of money we're spending I feel like we're mainly getting B- aesthetic improvements and not addressing some of the major passenger complaints of our airport. 

Here are some photos. All of these improvements have a WOW factor that give a great initial impression for their respective cities. Just hoping that our airport will continue to feel more cohesive with time. 

• https://www.flyreagan.com/travel-information/construction-project/photos/project-journey-renderings
• https://airportimprovement.com/article/san-francisco-int-l-rebuilds-terminal-1-24-billion
• https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/new-orleans-airport
• https://gordonhuether.com/salt-lake-city-international-airport/

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Urban Cowboy

[15895]

I think the exterior looks fine. Especially for a regional terminal. The new regional terminal at DCA is pretty much just like this only the Roofs match the respective context design. The interior on the other hand, we'll see.

Charlotte is an extremely extremely cheap airport. Insanely cheap. And its like 90% connecting traffic and dominated by a single airline. You could have a nicer airport, but American could balk and threaten to take it's planes elsewhere. 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[CltFlyer]

21 minutes ago, Urban Cowboy said:

The photos of the E expansion are very underwhelming. Granted, it's an improvement over the open air gates it's replacing. But it amazes me that the airport will give us A North and the plaza (both beautiful and functional). And then they give us this net new expansion that is a glorified barn. They could have done a soaring ceiling here and opened this up like the end of D, but this looks dark and small already (fitting for E). It's just disappointing because I've recently flown into the new New Orleans airport, the Harvey Milk terminal at SFO, new SLC terminal, and the DCA project journey concourse that replaced 35X-- and they all blow A North and the plaza out of the water. I get that we're a busy airport and can't shut down a concourse for construction, but for the amount of money we're spending I feel like we're mainly getting B- aesthetic improvements and not addressing some of the major passenger complaints of our airport. 

Here are some photos. All of these improvements have a WOW factor that give a great initial impression for their respective cities. Just hoping that our airport will continue to feel more cohesive with time. 

• https://www.flyreagan.com/travel-information/construction-project/photos/project-journey-renderings
• https://airportimprovement.com/article/san-francisco-int-l-rebuilds-terminal-1-24-billion
• https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/new-orleans-airport
• https://gordonhuether.com/salt-lake-city-international-airport/

 

 

 

 

I would suspect the lack in "quality" here is due to the fact that concourse E has a rather limited life span left (10 to 15 years).  It should be lighter when they cover up the current empty spaces with white ceiling tiles.

It is eventually going to be replaced by a midfield terminal and demolished.  This is a massive upgrade from what it is replacing though (outside walkways to hard stands and a cluster of people in the waiting area at the end of E).  

I suspect this is also why the B and C renovations aren't as nice as they could be.  They are going to be upgrading and widening both with their respective expansions, but renovations were needed ahead of time. 

I'm hopeful that the B and C expansions will be on par with A North.