Exile

"Lee said they also have plans to move the Hale’s Clock, a local landmark that has stood on Haywood Road for more than a century..." Maybe I'm too picky, but to me this is a pretty big editorial miss.

Hales had a downtown store for decades, with their iconic sidewalk clock. I bought the watch I still wear there in '87. I think that the Haywood Road store was a relocation from McAlister, I guess after the big fire that Mall had in '81 or '82. When they closed the downtown store, they moved the clock out to Haywood. I'm pretty sure the downtown store was closed by 1990, since I bought my wife's engagement and wedding ring at Haywood in 1990. I would certainly have gone downtown rather than Haywood to make that purchase.

"Creek" and "Tower" just don't sound right, juxtaposed like that.

Well, at least they do it in Charlotte, too. https://www.doerreconstruction.com/news/binaco-tower-uptown-charlotte/

This reminded me of something, but I didn't know what until I was doing some painting in the house the other day. You know how the caulk keeps coming out of the tube if you forget to relieve the pressure of the caulk gun? I had a near duplicate of these statues sitting on the carpet in our guest room for a few seconds....

i wonder how much re-cladding a 30 meter + building would cost. I can't recall having seen many, but the ones I can remember were part of a total gutting of the building. That of course means an empty building, for whatever reasons, and likely a bargain-basement sale of it. I don't see any other way to justify the likely astronomical costs. Whenever I look at the Daniel/BBT/Windstream/Whatever-it-is-now building, I choose to look at the white marble. The concrete is pretty easy to ignore. BOA isn't pretty; but it's not exactly ugly, either. As for Canvas, well, you do what you can for it. A mural, apart from artistic merit, seems to be a good way to mute all the angles in that building.

Maybe the lawyers whiffed, but this kind of thing is not uncommon. it's a cost of doing business. Neither side can afford to take it personally.

At this link (https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-385-sc/), there's a ca. 1970 map of Greenville with it labeled "Augusta Rd." north of Mauldin Rd. Current maps call it "Augusta St." north of Mauldin, and thereafter "Augusta Rd." There must have been an official renaming at some point, I suppose.

Everything from Our Lady of the Rosary to Main St. was colloquially "Augusta Road" growing up in the 60's and 70's. I worked in Greenville for several years in the 80's and 90's, and I never heard anyone ever refer to it as "Augusta Street" (with one exception, noted below). I would have called the whole thing past Donaldson Augusta Road, too. However, I don't doubt that "Augusta Street" was probably the official name all along. IDK. Just like nobody ever said "Pleasantburg Drive." It was 291 or occasionally 291-Bypass, because it was originally constructed as a bypass. Interestingly, the Baptist church at the corner of Augusta & Jones is "Augusta Road Baptist." OTOH, the Paramount Park Baptist Church building at Augusta & Haynie originally belonged to "Augusta Street Presbtyerian Church" up till at least the late 1980's. But I think we still called it "Augusta Road Presbyterian," whenever we referred to it.

Who's going to have access to that rooftop patio area? Seems kind of small for the size of the building. Wonder why they didn't build a twin at the other end.

I'm no expert on malls---I rarely go in one. But it seems to me that HM's best hope long-term is to create a lot more housing density around it. Or a dense mix of office and housing, with a hotel on-site, maybe. Malls purely as destinations to me only really seem to make sense in certain weathers: long, cold northern winters or long, hot southern summers unmitigated by ocean breezes. Greenville's too far north/elevated to qualify for the latter and, obviously, too far south to qualify for the former.

Lester Holt may be the best in the business. But even if he is, what's your standard for your claim that "he reports the facts." Is it because Lester Holt is the best in the business? Then you're in a tight circle of reasoning. Is it because his reporting is verified by other, by-definition lesser journalists? Then how can you know for sure, since they are, by definition, less fair and show some level of bias? How can the "greater" be confirmed by the "lesser"? Even the reporter with the most integrity is always selecting--from among many bits of information, often about subjects and affairs in which he has at best partial understanding--those he will present as the story. And then he tells a story (not the story), i.e., interpreting the information, according to his own views and bound by his level of understanding. It's inescapable. I couldn't, you couldn't, Lester Holt can't. That's why it's imperative to listen with an open mind to a spectrum of reporting/opinion. Unfortunately, from my vantage point, the emotional/vituperative responses I've read here rather indicate those posters are likely living in news silos.

A bit uncalled for, don't you think? Throughout this whole pandemic, I haven't read, watched, or listened to a single person who thinks we shouldn't take this seriously. And my news/analysis sources are all over the spectrum. The difference is always over what constitutes the best approach to dealing with it, that seeks to justly balance everyone's best interests and put resources where they're most needed. Is there some particular reason that we can't disagree amicably on this? Why not presume the best intentions, rather than the worst? I'm pretty sure apaladin's married and has children. And just a reminder that this is not theoretical for me: my wife's immune system is currently shut down because of chemotherapy; and my 89-year-old mother is frail and in memory care (thank God we're not in New York!). Everything that comes in our house gets cloroxed; my 19-year old daughter and 20-year old son have barely left the house since March. And of course we can't receive visitors, either. I pretty much only shop for groceries. We're living this to an extent that few are. We are taking it deadly seriously. Not looking for sympathy; don't need it or want it. Just making clear that, if anything, you'd likely think that I'd agree with the majority opinion on this thread. Nevertheless, I don't. And yes, I'm aware of all the statistics that have been invoked here and in other places contrary to my opinion. But I certainly don't have to tell you that data and the statistics that are built on it are not necessarily objective.... So it's back to apaladin's question earlier on this thread: who you gonna believe? The fact that apaladin and I take positions on this contrary to yours is great opportunity for friendly debate. And if for whatever reason you can't do it, then just don't say anything.

Well, if I were in the market for a DECA apt, I know which ones I wouldn't want to look at.

I had some tree work done in my back yard...which is really a part of a larger forest. I don't know trees all that well. I knew I had a number of tall Sweetgums, but the tree guy pointed out to me a couple of Tulip Poplars on my property that are likely over 100' tall. I think there are even taller ones near the creek on the back edge of my property, but I can't tell because the canopy's pretty thick. Even in winter, the limbs of shorter trees make it hard to gauge. Southern Living says Tulip Poplars are the tallest native U. S. hardwood (Redwoods? Sequoias? are they not hardwoods?) and can grow up to 150'. I suppose the ones on my property near the creek at least have that potential. I think any respectable observation tower should be substantially taller than any tree in a Carolina backyard could possibly grow. Preferably taller than anything in Congaree NP, too.

I'm curious: in general, what time frame do developers typically anticipate till profitable occupancy in projects of this magnitude? Months? Years? I'm asking about what they typically present to creditors when they propose this kind of project, so pre-Covid, pre-construction. TIA.

Gman's drone pic from the Camperdown thread gives us out-of-towners a decent perspective on how prominent the Courthouse is. I imagine there's a little upward tilt from here to the top of the Courthouse, but still, it almost totally blocks Liberty 2.

I had semi-forgotten about that building. I knew there was a second "flatiron" building in or near downtown (the other being Legal Services), but I couldn't remember where. Now I know the cause of my memory issues. According to Google Earth's historical imagery, it was gone by 2005. I last lived in Greenville in 1997. When was it torn down?

Saw this on Twitter. Speaks for itself. Fulop's the mayor of Jersey City.

There probably was a day when Poinsett Hwy could have been upgraded--to connect with the upgrade to 25 that NC long ago completed--in a way that it terminated just outside DT, without much, if any, destruction of residential areas. Just old industrial and retail buildings. That area's been blighted for a long time. But that day seems to have long passed. If they had done it, the terminus would have had to be Rutherford Road. I just can't see cutting off James and Earle Streets from each other, much less tearing down any of those houses for any purpose. And the eminent domain that you'd have to invoke to get it done--that wouldn't be a battle; it would be a war. Multiple fronts. There's just too much good stuff all around downtown--I can't see any way to make a connected thru-way that would justify the costs (not in terms of $$). And 185 is a lost cause. What might we agree to destroy to bring that all the way downtown? Not arguing. Just thinking outside the box, because part of me is sympathetic with what you're saying.

I'm thinking of downtown a little more expansively than the area bounded by Church, Academy, and River + Falls Park. I wasn't clear about that, and so fwiw, DT and its immediate neighbors: West End, future Unity Park, Hampton-Pinckney, etc. Areas that are urban or urban enough, and realistically walkable from DT. I can't speak to ATL, but living up here near CLT for a few years, I've become aware of a lot of regret over lack of preservation in the uptown area. I-77 bisects an old cemetery--I don't know the history there, but mass digging up of graves doesn't inspire confidence that the city's leaders were properly balancing progress (however you want to define that word) with respect for what was actually there then. The maps in the link scsmitty provided indicate that the freeway would have destroyed the area between Stone and Park; would have more or less followed Mulberry St. (What would that have done to Hampton-Pinckney? What effect on Heritage Green?); would make Unity Park a feature of some alternative reality; would cut inside the Pendleton-Academy intersection, destroying that neighborhood; I guess skirt St. Francis ( in that day St. Francis was still in an old, outdated facility--would they have been able to build what they have now?); and then after churning up more residential areas, merged with 185, though that's not portrayed clearly in the maps included in the document. But beyond that, a freeway would have created a barrier that would have essentially cut off areas north and west of downtown, created a lot of noise, and in general severely hampered--maybe even ruined--the aesthetic appeal of adjacent areas that weren't mowed under. The way it's set up right now, DT Greenville is a destination. I really hope that never changes. Which means I hope Greenville never becomes a boom town (steady, significant growth: yes). But even if Greenville were to boom, DC can be a model. It's got a similar situation internally: like Greenville's 385, 395 makes it into the District, there are a couple others that skirt it, and otherwise, there's really nothing.

When I was young, I really wanted the Downtown Loop to get built, because I thought it would be cool to have lots of cars whizzing by DT Greenville, like in ATL, STL, and other big cities I had been to back in the day. I especially wanted at least a part of it to be elevated, which I also thought was cool and big-city. It didn't take much aging, though, to disabuse me of that folly. It's hard to communicate how glad I am that they didn't build that thing, which really would have been nothing more than a show of vanity, a speculative money pit, and a destroyer of neighborhoods. Even today, in no sense is something like that needed, much less back then. And it would have made the current character of DT impossible.

Charlotte's the same way. The entire eastern side of the city is relatively undeveloped, which you can see by driving 485 from University City (roughly where 485 crosses 85 NE of the city) to all the way down to Matthews (1 o'clock to 5 o'clock). You'd think you were out in the sticks. Well, you really kind of are out in the sticks. And it's gotta be substantially because there's no major roads, much less freeways, that lead out there.

I did read the article. Not being a Trumper, I couldn't care less what he does or recommends for Boris Johnson. I'm sure the latter is well taken care of. Anyway, "discounted" by some; affirmed by others. You and I differ on who to believe. But, in the absence of a scientific study, for a licensed physician to prescribe, for a viral infection, an anti-viral drug that can now be bought generic and whose side effects are well-documented is hardly making lab rats of people or 1850's wild west. It's not likely to induce lawsuits either. All that's a pretty big stretch. To the breaking point, really. As for your question about why I might cheer drug companies, you forgot also to ask, "And when did you stop beating your wife?" LOL.

With Midland a close second? Forgot about those cities.