Exile

I don't know--the metal just makes it look like an oversized jungle gym. Why not blue granite? They still quarry it in Elberton. Put it in a later phase and keep raising money to do this thing right. Personally, I'd take quality over height. But I like height, too.

So we'd still have a suburban stadium. What would the West End be like without Fluor Field? I have my ideas, but I haven't lived in Greenville during any of this time, so what do you locals say?

What if the GBraves had stayed in Gville? Clearly that would have involved a new stadium, but where, what, how, etc.? And to what effect?

The helix-like shape of the tower is nice and could be iconic, but the concept seems to be latticed metal. I just hope the thing doesn't clatter under all the footfalls, or whistle in the wind.

I would think you'd want a name that could be easily pronounced by non-English speakers. That name might be deceptively difficult for some: "Troost." "No, it's Truist." "Tree-oost"? "No. Troo-ist. But almost like one syllable." "Treest"? "No! TROO-ist." "TROO East"? "Whatever."

Agreed. According to Google Earth, the proposed location of the tower is close to 100 ft. lower in elevation than the Pendleton-Academy intersection and 60ish feet lower than Main & Beattie.

The Poinsett block was bad because of the two big empty buildings (Poinsett and the Courthouse), which were attractions for vagrants. If anything got boarded up, it was probably the Poinsett, though as I recall Drake's Florist had a streetfront store in an otherwise empty Poinsett. The opening of the Westin plugged that hole. But even that area wasn't totally derelict: Trattoria Giorgio opened there in the mid-90's, replacing another restaurant that had been there for some time and served daytime business clientele, whose name I can't remember. And after the old Chamber/Liberty Life building survived a demolition proposal in the late 70's, it seemed to thrive as small-office space. And didn't the old Belk Building get put to some use for a while? Children's Theater? But you're right: in the 90's, downtown was tipped quite a bit toward the north end. Other than Peace Center events, I rarely went south of Coffee, even when I lived in Greenville for a while during the 90's. Now, I can't recall the last time I went anywhere north of Coffee. Unless you count Coffee Underground.

I've mentioned some of this variously before, but it bears repeating because of common misconceptions about DT in the 70's and 80's. Random thoughts--not intended to be exhaustive. 1) General Hospital (RIP) was still the main GHS hospital up till at least the mid-80's. I worked at GMH in 1981 and it was definitely still the second banana. So, while the writing was on the wall for Pendleton Street, there were still lots and lots of medical offices up and down and around, even on Anderson St. This created an embedded and affluent clientele for both BTM (which otherwise was misconceived) and for DT; 2) Add to that St. Francis, which has always been growing and is just a stone's throw from the old GGH site. 3) Furman was still playing football games downtown till at least 1980, which, though it was only 6 weekends during the Fall, still kept a certain buzz going in the area. 4) The Curb Market, which was where 1 and 2 Liberty are now, was still operating well into the 70's, though I don't remember when it closed down. My mother used to drag me down there frequently, and it was often busy. 5) Rich little old ladies shopped downtown regularly--there and Lewis Plaza--which they wouldn't have done if they had felt unsafe. 6) P&K mentioned the business community downtown. It was always pretty vigorous--banks, S&L's, attorneys, Daniel-then-Fluor, IBM, etc. One and Two liberty were both built in the '80's. That's a lot of office space for li'l ole Greenville. There hasn't been anything close to that infusion of office space since, not even One or Camperdown. 7) The Memorial Auditorium (RIP) pretty much always had something going on all the way up till the end. Now what is true is that things changed after about 6pm. Parts of DT after dark were not places to take a stroll, definitely, but that wasn't true of all of DT. The sketchy stuff tended to be south of Coffee and west of Main. Charlie's Steak House thrived on Coffee. There were other pretty good restaurants here and there that operated at night, along with the Summit Club. Seems to me in retrospect that downtown revitalization was as much proactive as reactive. With the Commons in place by 1981, lots of office construction in the 80's, along with the complete redo of Main St., the seeds were planted, and the soil was good. Opening the Peace Center in 1990 pushed DT over the edge, and then things really started to happen.

I haven't been in that building in a long time, but as I recall, there's an atrium of sorts facing the park. If my memory's good, that could lend itself well to ground-floor retail, eventually on both street-sides of the building.

I too stand by your statement "times have changed." And I agree that it's way better now than it was in '75. It's the other one that's waaaay overstated. And one other point: the empty shops weren't generally "boarded up." I can't say there were none like that, but if there were shops literally boarded up, they were very few and far between.

This is true. Contrary to what's often said about it, downtown never died. It was definitely sucking retail wind for a while, but up to the point that Greenville Commons opened for business there were still stores like Tanners, the Red Baron, Edens Estes, the Open Book, O'Neal Williams, Sedran Furs, Cochran Jewelers, Hales and their sidewalk clock, and a number of others. I always preferred the downtown Belk to others till it closed and moved to HM, but again, that was about the time that the Commons opened. Up till I moved away from Greenville in the late 80's, I did most of what shopping I do (which isn't much) downtown. I still wear the watch I bought at Hales DT in 1987. DT was revitalized, not resurrected.

Not just QT. We've done the same with Shell and, I believe, BP (though up here BP has an equivalent deal with Harris Teeter, but points-based and tied to your VIC card and so usable at any time). I would assume other gas cards are included...maybe all of them.

I think it's great if they're contemplating perhaps a new tallest, and hopefully that'll be the right bait to catch that signature, new-to-Greenville tenant and make that building a reality. OTOH, it would be nice if the city's tallest buildings were not so widely distributed, but I suppose we take what we can get.

My daughter, to our chagrin, chose a college on the other side of ATL. Now we're condemned to four years of occasionally driving through/around that hellhole, where the traffic is sometimes bad, sometimes worse, never good. (We do like the college itself, though.)

I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, you may be right. Was the one up the hill at 385 the Golden Eagle? I'm pretty sure it was some bird name. Anyway, whatever its name was, it for a long time had the most rooms of any lodging in Greenville. QT is now on that site.

Back in the days of the Textile Expo (it was then named "Piedmont Exposition Center", but we just called it "Textile Hall"), there was not just the Phoenix Inn, but a motel at the SE corner of 291 and 385, a Thunderbird Inn/Motel I believe, that was until the Hyatt the largest hotel/motel in Greenville. There were some restaurants and bars strewn out along that stretch too, including the Dragon Den, which had a remarkably good Chinese and Polynesian menu. I remember vividly a drunk European man getting in a head-on collision with a neighbor right in front of my house. Nobody was hurt, but textile HQ's were all over the place, and I have no doubt he'd been wined and dined at one of them and was lost. Anyway, the point is, the paradigm's different now. I imagine they built it where it is because of proximity to the airport--private jets and such. But location and concentration of amenities was clearly not an issue then. Visitors were all over the place. If there's a way to bring that stretch of 291 back to life, then maybe the Center will make it. If not, then I'd say sell it off to a megachurch, or convert it for govt offices. That is, once the DT convention center is open for business. If ever.

I seem to recall a master plan, or a consultant's detailed recommendation, or its equivalent, for that section of 291 about 15 years ago, give or take, that included a hotel alongside the center. But obviously nothing's come of it--the plan, much less the hotel--for whatever reasons.

I suppose it's possible that a downtown convention center could in fact drum up more business for the old behemoth, if their missions are clearly distinguished and they are marketed alongside each other. And at least some amenities are developed around it.

Based on the height of the guy standing about 2/3 of the way up in the first pic, then those sections are 20 ft., right? So at least 7.5 sections would give a height of about 150ft. Can't tell if there's an eighth hidden behind that fence. So it'll likely top out about the same height as Camperdown Apts.

Based on the size of those vertical pieces that are in process, as compared to the workmen around them and the crane, is it too optimistic to say that it will approach Two Liberty in height? That's assuming 10 floors.

According to what I've been able to gather, Greenville's UA includes Greer, Easley, and snakes down 123 all the way to Clemson, but does not include Mauldin or Simpsonville. From what I can tell, there's no similar division of, say, Lexington from Columbia or Summerville from Charleston. Am I correct about Greenville's UA? If so, why is that the case, because I can't see any obvious division. The Golden Strip's at least as contiguous as Liberty, Central, and Clemson.

The one next to Fairway Subaru? That's not in the city limits?

With the rerouting of U. Ridge, I would think that a good portion of that 10 acres would be tradeoff; i.e., not nearly as large a loss of developable land.

As a comparison, that's a bit larger than what's left of McAlister Square, and certainly a lot bigger than BTM. It would be interesting to know what the gross SF is for all of Main St. plus its connected side streets. If this development is connected well to the rest of DT, then in essence Greenville will have an immense outdoor mall, with even bigger connected parks.