Hampton Roads Transportation

[varider]

The bums up in Richmond (VDOT) said that it's not feasible at this time to build the midtown tunnel with LRT ROW's..I belive the midtown tunnel is going to be built stictly for cars (horrible mistake) with a $2- $3 toll one way. First of all, the expensive toll is basically going to form a blockade between Midtown Portsmouth and Norfolk. Nobody is going to pay $3 to cross the river Fraim is trying to reduce the toll to $1 one way, but even that is expensive..

Here is the website where you can read all about the 2nd midtown tunnel, renovations to the downtown tunnel, and the extension of the MLK Freeway.

http://www.midtowntunnel.org/

Edited August 24, 2009 by varider

[jbhay]

Thanks for the info. on the MLK/Midtown Tunnel. Even though that Midtown Tunnel expansion is technically included in the Third Crossing project plans, I was actually referring to the Third Crossing itself; the extension from the MMMBT to I-564. I'm interested in how that process is going. Obviously it's far off, but I'd like to know if I've missed any announcements about it.

[varider]

Thanks for the info. on the MLK/Midtown Tunnel. Even though that Midtown Tunnel expansion is technically included in the Third Crossing project plans, I was actually referring to the Third Crossing itself; the extension from the MMMBT to I-564. I'm interested in how that process is going. Obviously it's far off, but I'd like to know if I've missed any announcements about it.

Oh my fault. Roads to the future is always a good source.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/HR_Crossing_Study.html

It's kind of confusing. It looks as if they are building 2 tubes with 2 lanes whereas the HRBT and M&M only have 1 tube with 2 lanes. 564 will be extended from NOB to the South Island of the Monitor Merrimak.

All four existing lanes of the MMMBT would carry traffic in one direction. Four new lanes would be built to carry traffic the other way, along with two other lanes for busses or passenger rail transit.A mid-span spur from the MMMBT would carry traffic to Craney Island and to Hampton Blvd. and I-564 in Norfolk, near the U. S. Navy Base.

Once this is built it's going to be cool to drive on it. It's gonna be so many different tunnels and exits

[varider]

The DC Metro is about to be extended to Woodbridge..

Northern Virginia can build miles and miles of subway and we can barely build a light rail line.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9082103966.html

That's what a transportation tax does for ya

[jbhay]

Thanks for the above link for the Third Crossing project, varider. Lots of good information in here. It's funny to see how long stuff like this takes, as all the studies were completed in 1999-2000 and we're just now getting to the steps leading to the beginning of the project, highlighted in bold below. These steps started at the end of July, the construction crews have been out there and already have cones lining the temporary detour highway that will be built for Hampton Blvd. so that they can build the underpass under the rails going into NIT (horrible mistake, alas it seems necessary for this "Intermodal Connector" to be successful). While subtle and in its early stages, the Third Crossing project has surely begun. Hampton Blvd is going to be a disaster in this area when they undergo the detour switch. People in this area generally do not adjust well to traffic pattern alterations.

A new 4-lane 1/4-mile-long section of Virginia Avenue will complete a missing link in that thoroughfare and provide for better circulation in the port area west of Hampton Boulevard. The 1.3-mile-long new location portion of the Intermodal Connector will be a 4-lane freeway with a minimum median width of 58 feet, and it will pass over Hampton Boulevard on bridges with no interchange. About 1,500 feet of Hampton Boulevard on either side of the Intermodal Connector will be reconstructed and lowered so that the major at-grade freight railroad crossing can be bridged over Hampton Boulevard.

[urbanfan]

Thanks for the above link for the Third Crossing project, varider. Lots of good information in here. It's funny to see how long stuff like this takes, as all the studies were completed in 1999-2000 and we're just now getting to the steps leading to the beginning of the project, highlighted in bold below. These steps started at the end of July, the construction crews have been out there and already have cones lining the temporary detour highway that will be built for Hampton Blvd. so that they can build the underpass under the rails going into NIT (horrible mistake, alas it seems necessary for this "Intermodal Connector" to be successful). While subtle and in its early stages, the Third Crossing project has surely begun. Hampton Blvd is going to be a disaster in this area when they undergo the detour switch. People in this area generally do not adjust well to traffic pattern alterations.

The third crossing has been put on hold indefinitely until they look at a feasibility of expanding the HRBT. The Intermodal Connector is being done seperately of the third crossing in hopes of building it. It does not signal the start of the third crossing. Midtown is also seperate of the third crossing. It is being designed as a public/private partnership and should be getting the green light by next year.

[mlsimons]

The midtown tunnel expansion has been in the works for 20 years, and its mentioned in Norfolk's general plan of 1992 as a project which will require a form of "regional financing" if it is to ever be built. Since that never happened, now it is being built privately. And in our suburban sprawl metro, its more profitable to Skanska to build it for cars instead of trains. The politics and economics of this are so screwed up: we couldn't agree to enact a regional financial plan so we couldn't pay for it...b/c we are not paying for it we cannot require that a light rail line is included (cause Skanska will walk away)...we have lost in every respect.

...also it took me 3.5 hours to get from Richmond to home the other day...sux

[jbhay]

The third crossing has been put on hold indefinitely until they look at a feasibility of expanding the HRBT. The Intermodal Connector is being done seperately of the third crossing in hopes of building it. It does not signal the start of the third crossing. Midtown is also seperate of the third crossing. It is being designed as a public/private partnership and should be getting the green light by next year.

I read the study and understand that the IC's initial purpose is to provide better access to the Naval Base and NIT. I was merely alluding to the Intermodal Connector as being a necessary step in the proposed Third Crossing project, once the time comes for that. Also, it seems highly unlikely to me that there will be an expansion of the HRBT, except for future rail transit systems to the peninsula. High-speed won't need to run through that corridor. If anything, they wouldn't touch the HRBT until after the THRC is finished, imo.

Glad to hear about the Downtown/Midtown/MLK process (except for the absence of rail). I accidently referred to it being part of the THRC the other day. I had been looking at the map where the proposed N-S highway along the east of Craney will connect with VA-164, which connects up with the Midtown Tunnel. I guess I was looking at our future of highway networks too closely!

3.5 hours from Richmond? Ouch brother...

Edited August 25, 2009 by jbhay

[urbanfan]

I read the study and understand that the IC's initial purpose is to provide better access to the Naval Base and NIT. I was merely alluding to the Intermodal Connector as being a necessary step in the proposed Third Crossing project, once the time comes for that. Also, it seems highly unlikely to me that there will be an expansion of the HRBT, except for future rail transit systems to the peninsula. High-speed won't need to run through that corridor. If anything, they wouldn't touch the HRBT until after the THRC is finished, imo.

Glad to hear about the Downtown/Midtown/MLK process (except for the absence of rail). I accidently referred to it being part of the THRC the other day. I had been looking at the map where the proposed N-S highway along the east of Craney will connect with VA-164, which connects up with the Midtown Tunnel. I guess I was looking at our future of highway networks too closely!

3.5 hours from Richmond? Ouch brother...

A study of the expansion of the HRBT is already in progress and has full support from all localities unlike the third crossing. If anything, the HRBT must be expanded first because that is where the bottleneck is. Hampton and other localities will not go along with funding unless it is included in the package.

[jbhay]

Thanks for clearing that up. VDOT clearly posted the feasibility study that I've overlooked. I was not aware of any consideration to that existing structure because of the seemingly difficult task it would be to re-align the highways from 664 to 564, not to mention the cost. Sounds almost like it's going to be the Big Dig of Hampton Roads in construction costs to me.

You're right though, the HRBT is a major root of the problem in our highway network and should definitely be aligned with the recently expanded I-64 on the peninsula. I get so frustrated that this area hasn't boosted transportation capacity over the years while expanding development throughout the region. This is a whole new slew of information to check into though, very interesting indeed. I've been away at college for four years so I'm slowly getting back into everything that's been happening regionally, and as much as things have changed, there's a lot that's the same. This site is a big help, you all seem to know what's going on behind the scenes.

[varider]

Midtown Tunnel Project Moving Forward:

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/08/state-conv...unnel-expansion

Efforts to expand the Midtown Tunnel between Norfolk and Portsmouth moved forward Tuesday as state officials conveyed 10.4 acres of river bottom to the Virginia Department of Transportation for the project.

More great news for transportation in HR:

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/mobile/local_wavy_...proved_20090825

Rendering included

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. - The Virginia Marine Resource Commission (VMRC) approved a new design for the Jordan Bridge Tuesday. The span would be fully funded by the private development group, Figg Bridge Developers, LLC., VMRC spokesperson John Bull told WAVY.com

Edited August 25, 2009 by varider

[jbhay]

After checking out the HRBT feasibility study, it's looks like Alternative 6 provides the best LOS at the lowest cost (still $3B+).

Alternative 6 is the proposal of a high suspension bridge to the west of the existing bridge-tunnel system. I think this region could really use a beautiful bridge structure as opposed to the plethora of aesthetically dull bridges that are so common throughout the area and could serve as a perfect welcome to the southside. Too bad it can't be cable-stayed because of the huge span it would have to cover. I'll be making it a high priority to see our nation's widest cable-stayed bridge this weekend while in Boston, the Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge.

As mentioned above by varider, I'm very excited that FIGG will be doing the new Jordan Bridge. That company has some magnificent looking bridges throughout the country. The president and CEO, Linda Figg, gave a guest lecture at VT in 2007 called Bridges As Art or something and it was really inspiring stuff for an aspiring structural engineer.

Hampton Roads needs better looking bridges!

[varider]

Here jbhay

[ronsmytheiii]

After checking out the HRBT feasibility study, it's looks like Alternative 6 provides the best LOS at the lowest cost (still $3B+).

Alternative 6 is the proposal of a high suspension bridge to the west of the existing bridge-tunnel system. I think this region could really use a beautiful bridge structure as opposed to the plethora of aesthetically dull bridges that are so common throughout the area and could serve as a perfect welcome to the southside. Too bad it can't be cable-stayed because of the huge span it would have to cover. I'll be making it a high priority to see our nation's widest cable-stayed bridge this weekend while in Boston, the Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge.

As mentioned above by varider, I'm very excited that FIGG will be doing the new Jordan Bridge. That company has some magnificent looking bridges throughout the country. The president and CEO, Linda Figg, gave a guest lecture at VT in 2007 called Bridges As Art or something and it was really inspiring stuff for an aspiring structural engineer.

Hampton Roads needs better looking bridges!

Never going to happen with the Navy, they mandate a Bridge-tunnel crossing

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/plan-impro...vd-has-250-toll

[mlsimons]

http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html

I thought this was kinda sad...seeing as Hampton Roads is no where on any of the plans for high speed rail.

[urbanvb]

Actually there is a leg of rail joining us from Richmond. (courtesy of Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor).

Edited September 3, 2009 by urbanvb

[urbanfan]

http://www.ushsr.com/hsrnetwork.html

I thought this was kinda sad...seeing as Hampton Roads is no where on any of the plans for high speed rail.

That is not the official government program for HSR. That is just a team of proffessionals who are lobbying for HSR. The official government HSR has a leg to HR but the question is which one?

[mlsimons]

That is not the official government program for HSR. That is just a team of proffessionals who are lobbying for HSR. The official government HSR has a leg to HR but the question is which one?

Yeah, but this team of professionals is hosting a major conference in DC soon (over $1,000 per ticket) and they don't have anything about Hampton Roads in their plans...im just a little offended.

[jeffconn]

Express buses to link Virginia Beach with N.Y, D.C.

A new express bus company, Sprinterbus, will take you from VB to Washington DC for $20 one-way or to New York for $35. Apparently, "Chinatown" buses have been doing express routes from HR to New York for years. Normally, they leave around midnight to get you to NYC around morning rush hour.

[cpeakesqr]

Express buses to link Virginia Beach with N.Y, D.C.

A new express bus company, Sprinterbus, will take you from VB to Washington DC for $20 one-way or to New York for $35. Apparently, "Chinatown" buses have been doing express routes from HR to New York for years. Normally, they leave around midnight to get you to NYC around morning rush hour.

I heard about the Chinatown buses. The prices sound decent.

[jbhay]

I've taken the Chinatown express buses that leave from VB (Pembroke area) at least 7 times. They drop you in Chinatown around 6:30am and are around $60 round-trip. I'm actually taking it this Thursday night to go there for the weekend.

[varider]

http://avengingarchangel.blogspot.com/

Apparently the Va Secretary of Transportation said he prefers the Peninsula/ I-64 corridor for HSR. IMO this is complete bullsh** and just bums up in Richmond trying to further isolate Hampton Roads., while doing in on the cheap. It's obvious that downtown Norfolk is where the rail should terminate. Especially with light rail under construction and proposed for the Southside. Our mayors and leaders need to step up and lead and tell the state that ain't gonna fly.

[varider]

And then you have this.. Norfolk Southern reports estimates for Petersburg to Norfolk HSR at $75 million. The State had estimated it at $262 million. This is total crap, it's no way the State could screw up the price that much. It's almost like they don't want us to succeed.

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/passenger-...t-millions-less

[rusthebuss]

And then you have this.. Norfolk Southern reports estimates for Petersburg to Norfolk HSR at $75 million. The State had estimated it at $262 million. This is total crap, it's no way the State could screw up the price that much. It's almost like they don't want us to succeed.

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/09/passenger-...t-millions-less

You are just getting that! Its been like this for a long time. Look at the money for the roads