Eastland Mall Redevelopment

[MilZ]

And talking about the logo's history will be a good way to add 5 minutes to the film studio's future group tours.

[DEnd]

What am I missing re: the Eastland sun logo?

 

 

Good taste?  :-P 

 

I like it, however having grown up in the area it's just the mall logo, I don't think of it as a symbol for the area.

 

 

*edit 6/6 3:40am

I've changed my mind on the two proposals.  I don't like either one.  Neither of them do anything to foster greater connectivity between the site and surrounding neighborhoods.  I fear without that connectivity the site will not be resilient enough to handle failure.

Edited June 6, 2013 by DEnd

[Urbanity]

Here's a possible argument for the Movie studios/tv production facilities at Eastland.  The Charlotte region just lost the series Sleepy Hollow (pilot filmed here and Salisbury) to Wilmington.   The reason given was "for financial and creative reasons,"  which I would take an educated gander that the area doesn't offer a good financial model as far as production facilities to retain the series.

 

Granted this is a leap as we already film the highly acclaimed Homeland here - but it is an argument that I guarantee someone will be making in favor of the Studio Charlotte bid for Eastland.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Urbanity

[15895]

Good taste? :-P

I like it, however having grown up in the area it's just the mall logo, I don't think of it as a symbol for the area.

*edit 6/6 3:40am

I've changed my mind on the two proposals. I don't like either one. Neither of them do anything to foster greater connectivity between the site and surrounding neighborhoods. I fear without that connectivity the site will not be resilient enough to handle failure.

^ you don't think the ARK proposal would draw in more tourist/locals/skateboarders etc. which in turn makes a greater need for improved infrastructure and perhaps more private investment along the improved infrastructure?

Studio Charlotte, to me, seems more like a bubble. Surely a wave pool, etc. would bring hundreds to the Eastland area daily. (itd be great were the wave pool indoor; winter).

On top of that development would also be encouraged by CityLynx.

[DEnd]

I don't think either one makes the area easier to get to for locals which means it has to be a destination stop, not a local convenience stop.  What brought back plaza midwood was that it was convenient for neighborhood locals, and it became a destination.

 

I'm not predicting certain doom for either of the proposals, I just don't like them because they treat the site as a stand alone entity instead of doing more to integrate the site into the surrounding neighborhoods.

[Third Strike]

^ The movie studio proposal at the very least has retail along Central Ave, giving the area a streetscape or "main street". I think one of the biggest factors in the deciding process is how the transformation of this parcel can help benefit not just the city of Charlotte, but the immediate area as well.

 

In other news, the national guard is going to be using this site this weekend as part of their drills, including helicopter drops, and moving conveys onto the site.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/06/4090258/national-guard-will-conduct-training.html

 

[Urbanity]

I agree about the Studio proposal and developing retail and other amenities (movie theater, hotel) as a plus.  I also personally think the Studio plan is more than  just about "the studio" as it includes both a CMS school (which I don't know the odds of) and a higher ed film school (Which I do know the odds of and they are good).

 

I respect everyone's take on the two proposals, but I personally feel the idea of turning Eastland into a recreational destination spot is more of a gamble than the studio proposal.   My reason:

 

We can debate  the reality vs. perception of the safety and crime rates in that area, but fact of the matter is that perception is a strong reality for people when it comes to safety and desirable areas of where they go for recreation.  The fact is that the area has a bad reputation.  One of the things that destroyed the mall was the perception that it became a hang-out for kids with nothing to do and with bad intentions (and I don't think the latter was true, but that was the perception).   Based on that - I don't see how turning the area into a skateboard park and wave pool (among other things) changes that equation and makes people from other parts of the city want to visit it.

 

If the ARK proposal is built as a much needed amenity for local East Side residents - I am in favor of it, but if it is built with the idea that it would be a destination for people through out the city, I think doomed for failure.  Just my two cents. 

Edited June 8, 2013 by Urbanity

[southslider]

^Right, the Eastland site has too much lingering stigma to attract visitors from outside of Charlotte, or even across Charlotte.

 

Like the Whitewater Center or NASCAR Hall of Fame, I'm worried the ARK proposal could end up being another subsidy in perpetuity.

 

In summary, go with any development that can create tax base without relying on non-local patronage.

[15895]

Are there solid plans for the amateur sports arena?

I wonder if Studio Charlotte is chosen if ARK could help the city with the amateur sports in the CIP?

[15895]

Are there solid plans for the amateur sports arena?

I wonder if Studio Charlotte is chosen if ARK could help the city with the amateur sports in the CIP?

[mallguy]

If the ARK proposal is built as a much needed amenity for local East Side residents - I am in favor of it, but if it is built with the idea that it would be a destination for people through out the city, I think doomed for failure.  Just my two cents. 

Agreed.  Based on the horrified reactions from people when I'd tell them that I would shop at Eastland Mall (due to that Dillard's clearance center), I cannot imagine the clean-cut families from South Charlotte and Myers Park going to that part of town.  If the goal is to build something like Charlotte's version of Coney Island (which Manhattanites at least wouldn't set foot in), or an ethnic version of Myrtle Beach, then it should be fine.

[Urbanity]

 like Charlotte's version of Coney Island (which Manhattanites at least wouldn't set foot in),

 uhm, bad example because that's far from the truth.

[Norm2]

OK, so I just read ana rticle in the Observer that was discussing the proposed ski slopes that could possibly replace Eastland Mall. It would be an outdoor ski slope that would use a material that is similar to carpet that is easy to ski down......WHAT!?!? Skiing on CARPET!?!? HECK NO! We have the mountains that are an easy 2 hour drive away for skiing during the winter. I am now TOTALLY against the ski slope plan!

[mallguy]

 uhm, bad example because that's far from the truth.

Manhattanites who live south of 96th Street do not go to Coney Island.

 

Nor do the residents of south Charlotte go to the Eastland area.  They surely won't with carpeted ski slopes!

[15895]

You can't go skiing in summer in the mountains (can you?)

I bet if done right, it would be awesome. But we don't know enough details.

I just don't see the film industry being sustainable in CLT nor a great industry to rely on. Id rather invest in continued energy/financial/healthcare/automotive than film :/

I think if done right, the ARK plan can be a huge asset to the city. A film school & studios sounds silly for CLT & seems to me to be a riskier version of convention center business.

I feel like a movie studio would be like the next big thing like the area of Charlotte School of Law was supposed to be.

Edited June 16, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[nonillogical]

I'm assuming it would be something like this (Lynchburg VA) http://www.liberty.edu/snowflex/index.cfm?PID=19490

 

No idea just how popular it is, but a synthetic material all-year ski slope is not a completely untested idea. Its definitely something that would be more popular with freestyle riders (assuming there would be a terrain park) and beginners who don't need a huge run or very steep slope. 

[AuLukey]

I honestly don't see the ARK proposal working at all. I love the NC Music Factory and I firmly believe that they should have won the Carolina Theater project, but their plan here doesn't keep in mind the stigma held over the area at large.  Yes, the idea of these proposals is to regenerate growth in a positive direction for the area; but you can't do that without consumers.  Consumers fear blight, why else did Eastland go from boom to bust in under a decade?  Media hyped crime in the area and "poof," suddenly the mall was dead.  Do you honestly feel like the proposal to build a skate park and wave pool (really?) are going to change the overall opinion of that area? 

 

Remember that this project will be built in phases and that the ARK proposal starts off with a gym (which can be found in any local strip mall,) a wave pool (I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one-let's call it a local draw at best,) a skate park (stereotype city for anyone over the age of 30,) an ice rink (because that kept people coming to Eastland Mall ,) a ski slope (whose novelty will quickly subside, a la Whitewater Center,) and retail which, IMHO, will be entirely contingent on the success of the aforementioned "tourism boosters."

 

I may be flattered by the planning that has already gone into the Studio Charlotte plan.  It really seems like they have a solid business model that they have already proven in other markets.  Why stop them while they are on a roll?  Yes yes, the ARK plan has a studio planned, but it is only 60,000sf.  That's not the kind of draw that will be a game changer.  Do I feel like Studio Charlotte will be a huge game changer?  Of course not.  Charlotte is 100% incapable of becoming the next Hollywood.  Anyone that feels that way may also claim to have a one way ticket to Mars on the next soviet rocket launch.  Let's please be real about this, to think that this plan will draw tourism in the short term is absurd.  I don't care how many bells and whistles you add.  Assuming that the film studio is Studio Charlotte's main priority, at least we won't have to worry about the general opinion of the public in order to maintain the developments initial success.  Will the studio initially turn around the neighborhood?  Of course not.  But with a solid anchor that doesn't shut down within a few years of opening (that's me assuming there is interest in a wave pool by neighborhood locals,) they can build out the other phases which could begin to transform the area.  Let the area's reputation die down before you try to bring consumers back in.  Studio Charlotte has their phases planned in the proper order.

 

What's necessary here is a platform.  Build the platform, let local business owners invest in the area, let the city improve infrastructure, and let time tell.  Don't expect a novelty ski slope mixed with a few other local amenities to turn this into some sort of hub. 

[15895]

^ (great opinion)

[nonillogical]

a ski slope (whose novelty will quickly subside, a la Whitewater Center,) 

Whoa whoa whoa, have you been to WWC lately? Do you know how many new parking areas they've had to build to accomodate the ever-increasing popularity of the place, not to mention how many new features they've added over the last 2 years? I have a season pass so I'm there frequently, and it seems to get busier every single weekend.

 

Not at all saying that an artificial ski slope would be successful, just that the WWC example works against your case if anything. 

[ah59396]

Whoa whoa whoa, have you been to WWC lately? Do you know how many new parking areas they've had to build to accomodate the ever-increasing popularity of the place, not to mention how many new features they've added over the last 2 years? I have a season pass so I'm there frequently, and it seems to get busier every single weekend.

 

Not at all saying that an artificial ski slope would be successful, just that the WWC example works against your case if anything. 

 

 

Yeah, he lost me with the WWC example.  That place is packed every time I am there...which is often.  Thursday - Sunday it's tough to get a parking space there.

[tozmervo]

It's funny, when I first read the ARK proposal I thought, "that sounds ludicrous," followed quickly by a, "well, if they could pull it off so successfully at USNWC, maybe it could work again..."

[Urbanity]

Ok Ok - he got one example wrong.  

 

WIth the exception of that Whitewater example though I do think he is spot on though about the overall problems with the ARK presentation myself.

 

I am in favor of the ARK group in general and their abilities.  I just can't wrap my head around their proposal and the likelihood of success failure for that location.

 

I prefer the Studio Charlotte proposal but I will heartedly agree with the caution and even outright pessimism of the film/tv/production business as an anchor when we rely on state incentives that may go away - but I still think even with that issue - it's a more balanced proposal.

 

To be frank, I would have much prefered a very different proposal for the site focused more on mid-rise affordable condo towers with retail and a street grid but that is not apparently an option.

[ah59396]

To be fair, I remember a few years back when pretty much everyone was questioning the NC Music Factory too.  I'm not sure which proposal would be more successful, but I do know that ARK at least has a track record.  Can someone give me an example of something Studio Charlotte has done?  Do they have website or anything?

[15895]

I thought it was interesting that ARK said they have a studio at the NC Music Factory ready to be expanded but they don't see the demand for expanding it.

It would be nice if the wave pool was indoors (or else this place will be dead in winter). I'm sure it will be innovative.

Between our stadiums, NASCAR tracks, White Water Center, CIP amateur sports complex, uptown stadiums, etc.We would seem to be a great host city for Athletic events.

[DEnd]

To be fair, I remember a few years back when pretty much everyone was questioning the NC Music Factory too.  I'm not sure which proposal would be more successful, but I do know that ARK at least has a track record.  Can someone give me an example of something Studio Charlotte has done?  Do they have website or anything?

 

Studio Charlotte has no track record.  One of the partners however has seemingly done decent developing movie studios in New Mexico and Philly, IIRC the one in NM filed for bankruptcy or defaulted before it became successful much like the USNWWC.