Eastland Mall Redevelopment

[Urbanity]

Manhattanites who live south of 96th Street do not go to Coney Island.

 

 

 

Sorry for late response to this but I just saw it.  I can tell you as a several generation new yorker with friends and family who live everywhere from upper east side to Tribeca - that statement is a load of bull.

 

Do they go regularly?  No, but go they do.  Particularly since the Mets Minor League ballpark was established next door to it a few years ago.

[Guest]

Sorry for late response to this but I just saw it.  I can tell you as a several generation new yorker with friends and family who live everywhere from upper east side to Tribeca - that statement is a load of bull.

 

Do they go regularly?  No, but go they do.  Particularly since the Mets Minor League ballpark was established next door to it a few years ago.

Haha, I live in the same borough as Coney and do not go there. I'd rather hitch a ride with a friend down to pointe pleasant or somewhere on the jersey shore. Coney is awful.

[Urbanity]

Haha, I live in the same borough as Coney and do not go there. I'd rather hitch a ride with a friend down to pointe pleasant or somewhere on the jersey shore. Coney is awful.

I agree it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it still apparently attracts almost 500,000 visitors a year and only 5% of that being tourists.

 

BTW - I didn't mean to go so off topic (particularly since Mallguy and I both agree the idea of attracting tourists to Eastland mall via ARK Proposal is dubious at best), but I know its bs to say no one from Manhattan goes to Coney Island.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Urbanity

[mallguy]

Sorry for late response to this but I just saw it.  I can tell you as a several generation new yorker with friends and family who live everywhere from upper east side to Tribeca - that statement is a load of bull.

 

Do they go regularly?  No, but go they do.  Particularly since the Mets Minor League ballpark was established next door to it a few years ago.

I've lived in NYC for over a decade. The only person I know who has gone to Coney Island is blind and thus can't see it--he wouldn't go if he could see the place.

Check out the NY Times article this week on Coney Island and it supports my statement.

Edited June 20, 2013 by mallguy

[Guest]

I've lived in NYC for over a decade. The only person I know who has gone to Coney Island is blind and thus can't see it--he wouldn't go if he could see the place.

Check out the NY Times article this week on Coney Island and it supports my statement.

That's a little harsh, I Hate coney, but I've been there 3 times in 5 years.

edit: I should mention that I've been to beaches in different states to avoid coney, NJ, MA, RI, CT and the hamptons (long island might as well be a different state)

Edited June 21, 2013 by Guest

[Urbanity]

I've lived in NYC for over a decade. The only person I know who has gone to Coney Island is blind and thus can't see it--he wouldn't go if he could see the place.

Check out the NY Times article this week on Coney Island and it supports my statement.

 

Since I already offered proof in the Daily News Article that the majority of visitors to Coney Island are from New York (you think none of those 400,000-500,000 are from Manhattan?) , and since I lived in NY for 37 years (most of those adult years in Manhattan), and I can speak for my own visits, my family visits (many who live in Manhattan), my friends visits(most who live in Manhattan), and my coworkers visits (all my jobs including 8 years in an investment bank were based in Manhattan)  my only take away from this interaction is that I have a broader circle of people and experience in New York (and Manhattan) than you.  

 

Not really certain why you feel the need to make such a hyperbolic (and silly) repeated argument that no one from Manhattan goes or would go to Coney Island, but for the sake of the thread I won't debate it further.

  

 

Let's return to Eastland mall...  

Edited June 21, 2013 by Urbanity

[15895]

I wish ARK had more details. If they do their project and make it an innovative, unique, world class, it'd be super awesome.

But if they're doing a run of the mill ice skating rink, run of the mill gym, wave pool shut down in winter, etc. I think it'd be horrendous.

All the public really has seen from ARK is a High School business class slide show on their proposal. Reminds me of A typical vague center city partners slide show

[Matthew.Brendan]

I have to side with mid-rise residential and retail.

Is the streetcar going to be running here? That should be tightly integrated along with the current bus hub.

[Niner National]

I'd rather the city just hold onto it than there be an ugly fake ski slope. While I'd use the ski slope if it were there, I feel like the potential for the novelty to wear off would be enormous, leaving us with a neglected structure that looks even worse than the mall.

 

I'd rather the city just turn the whole area into a park or a community garden. Host a farmers market there on weekends. Let people that use the community garden sell their stuff there or something. Just seems like a better use of the property than what ARK is proposing IMO. At least that would be something that benefits the entire community.

 

Ideally I'd like to see a great new mixed-use development, but I think that would be an extremely tough sell until it is guaranteed that the streetcar will be funded to run that far.

[AuLukey]

Whoa whoa whoa, have you been to WWC lately? Do you know how many new parking areas they've had to build to accomodate the ever-increasing popularity of the place, not to mention how many new features they've added over the last 2 years? I have a season pass so I'm there frequently, and it seems to get busier every single weekend.

 

Not at all saying that an artificial ski slope would be successful, just that the WWC example works against your case if anything. 

 

Yeah, he lost me with the WWC example.  That place is packed every time I am there...which is often.  Thursday - Sunday it's tough to get a parking space there.

Yikes!    I fell off the board while I was on vacation and look what I missed.  I based that opinion on only a handful of visits at least two or three years ago on what I'm assuming must have been off days.  I don't really recall the day of the week, but that's really irrelevant. I took the lack of banter from friends and family about the WWC here recently as a sign that the novelty had worn off.  I will whole heartedly take back my example (apparently it's too late to edit the post) as I now see what you all have to say. 

 

But while that was a poorly educated statement, I still don't see an artificial ski slope being an enormous regional hub.  Of course they'll get business. I have a ton of friends that would fly around the world to go skiing every weekend if they had the money.  But that's not going to be a permanently magnetic draw that is going to shift this area.  As I previously stated, the area's stereotype is going to keep a lot of people away all on it's own.  At least for the short term.  We need something that can survive the short term first.  A wave pool and skate park may only draw the same "crowds" and, therefore, opinions that the former mall's parking lot did.  Having a gym won't change a thing, I'm actually a little baffled by that choice.  Maybe just to have something that will constantly keep business.  But the city doesn't just need another business.  The city needs something that can change an area's very definition.  A fledgling movie studio isn't going to change this, but it will be a placeholder that can help a relatively new industry (in terms of size, not time) in the Charlotte market.

 

Studio Charlotte has no track record.  One of the partners however has seemingly done decent developing movie studios in New Mexico and Philly, IIRC the one in NM filed for bankruptcy or defaulted before it became successful much like the USNWWC.   

 

Of course Studio Charlotte has no track record.  Studio Charlotte doesn't exist.  It is a group of partners working together on a potential project.  One of those partners, for example, is Pacifica Ventures.  PV now runs the legendary Culver Studios which once hosted films like Gone With the Wind, Citizen Kane, Batman, Lassie, as well as more recent television programs like Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader, Deal or No Deal, Scrubs, etc.  They have had success with upstarts very much like the Charlotte proposal while working with other film industry partners.  They most recently landed filming for The Avengers at their New Mexico facility.  Smaller studios are often used by larger companies to film big movies.  It's the many smaller movies that can really bring revenue though.  Big movies only come every so often, but what the physical studio makes has little to do with the end success of the film, so quantity is more important than quality.  The larger your studio, the larger your quantity.  ARK's itty bitty studio won't change a thing.

 

Smaller film industry groups are not normally sole proprietors of a studio but rather a conglomerate of partners that work together to piece together the many facets of a studio.  That said, there are the more popular outliers like Fox that, even still, have many separate facets that make up the whole. But don't expect a company like that to ever show up here as a whole.  Any film studio that comes to Charlotte will not have a track record, but their partners will.

 

This all doesn't mean that this particular project will succeed either.  I just feel it has a stronger chance to make the impact that Charlotte is wanting in the long run.  Areas don't just turn around overnight.  To me, that's what the ARK proposal is more about.  If ARK can somehow massively promote and advertise the stereotypes out of Charlotte, then yes, okay.  It could work.  But that's not going to happen.

[nonillogical]

Yikes!    I fell off the board while I was on vacation and look what I missed.  I based that opinion on only a handful of visits at least two or three years ago on what I'm assuming must have been off days.  I don't really recall the day of the week, but that's really irrelevant. I took the lack of banter from friends and family about the WWC here recently as a sign that the novelty had worn off.  I will whole heartedly take back my example (apparently it's too late to edit the post) as I now see what you all have to say. 

 

But while that was a poorly educated statement, I still don't see an artificial ski slope being an enormous regional hub.  Of course they'll get business. I have a ton of friends that would fly around the world to go skiing every weekend if they had the money.  But that's not going to be a permanently magnetic draw that is going to shift this area.  As I previously stated, the area's stereotype is going to keep a lot of people away all on it's own.  At least for the short term.  We need something that can survive the short term first.  A wave pool and skate park may only draw the same "crowds" and, therefore, opinions that the former mall's parking lot did.  Having a gym won't change a thing, I'm actually a little baffled by that choice.  Maybe just to have something that will constantly keep business.  But the city doesn't just need another business.  The city needs something that can change an area's very definition.  A fledgling movie studio isn't going to change this, but it will be a placeholder that can help a relatively new industry (in terms of size, not time) in the Charlotte market.

No worries, you'll have to check it out again! The WWC is really an asset to the city IMO and one of the first things I always tell visitors or transplants they have to do.

 

Anyway, I think I tend to agree with you that the movie studio is a better long term plan for Eastland. However I was excited by ARK's proposal because I still feel really strongly that we NEED a top-tier skate park in an urban location, and I would like to see it developed alongside other attractions, though I think a mountain bike/bmx jump and skills park would be a much cheaper option with a bigger built-in clientele vs. the artificial ski slope. I could see that ski slope getting added as an attraction at WWC in fact, I think it would fit in quite well there.  

[AuLukey]

I agree 100%.  That's a great idea.  It could do really well and serve as an asset to the city at that location.  Heck, Concord Mills or Carowinds (the NC side, of course) would be excellent options for an attraction like this as well.  I know, I know, Concord Mills already has enough crap; but if they hadn't decided to allow an auto mall on that stretch, there would have been plenty of room left over for more attractions. With an indoor water park, outlet mall, convention center, speedway/racing park, and now an aquarium, an indoor skiing resort would fit right in - especially if they had an attached hotel where the rooms overlooked the slope!  How cool would that be?  I think ARK might have missed the boat on this idea.  Even putting a slope/hotel next to the WWC could be pretty cool.  Have windows on one side facing the slope and the rapids on the other side.  Man I wish I had the capital...

[nonillogical]

It WOULD seem to fit well over there, but I wouldn't even get your hopes up that high for what an artificial ski slope means. We're not talking a Dubai style indoor ski slope with blown snow, we're talking a synthetic plastic outdoor short slope...seems to me like they'd be most useful to the freestyle boarders/skiiers looking to practice jumps, tricks and grinds since its not like you can build a very long, steep, or interesting course for your average skiier. I know they have a lot of these in the UK. 

[AuLukey]

yawn.  well, either way this type of entertainment/recreational park would fit in better elsewhere.  I could see it working near the music factory too if we're talking small scale.

[Urbanity]

The team behind the Film Studio proposal released a new rendering of the planned use of the space.

 

Obviously - it's only a rendering and anyone can make a rendering of space, but I will say this for them, they seem to be putting more out in the public domain of what they want their development to look like (from both street and aerial angles) than the ARK group proposal.     

 

Apparently the have a video tour as well
 

Edited August 7, 2013 by Urbanity

[Niner National]

Looks nice, but I don't see the city investing any further money into this parcel of land. They've already purchased it for above market value price and are now paying for demolition. If they want to give the land away for free, fine with me, but I really don't want to see them dump even more money into the project.

 

If they're going to do that, I'd rather just see it becomes a park or some other public use facility.

[ah59396]

Man, that video is awesome.  I'd be happy with and end result half as good as the vision.

[tozmervo]

Hah, clever move getting Mike Collins to narrate. And Gladiator music. Can't go wrong with that.

[vassago]

And what happens if the General Assembly allows the film incentive to sunset, which seems very likely?

[Urbanity]

Interesting side development.  The Ark group (who proposed the entertainment-recreation use for Eastland) just got the go ahead for a Dallas, TX NC Music Factory type development.

 

I'm not sure if this helps or hurts them.  The help is obvious - they just got a chance to crow (rightfully so) about their development abilities in one of the largest markets in the U.S.

The hurt though is are they a big enough operation to be simultaneously developing the Texas development and the Charlotte Eastland one?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/morning-edition/2013/08/ark-groups-texas-entertainment.html

[ah59396]

Interesting side development.  The Ark group (who proposed the entertainment-recreation use for Eastland) just got the go ahead for a Dallas, TX NC Music Factory type development.

 

I'm not sure if this helps or hurts them.  The help is obvious - they just got a chance to crow (rightfully so) about their development abilities in one of the largest markets in the U.S.

The hurt though is are they a big enough operation to be simultaneously developing the Texas development and the Charlotte Eastland one?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/morning-edition/2013/08/ark-groups-texas-entertainment.html

 

 

I'm a fan of anybody that get's STUFF done.  I'm still in ARK's boat.  (I'm very sorry for that pun)

Edited August 9, 2013 by ah59396

[Niner National]

I'm a fan of anybody that get's STUFF done.  I'm still in ARK's boat.  (I'm very sorry for that pun)

I just don't want an artificial ski lift. I'd LOVE to see something like that if it were built on a natural setting, but to have something like that tower over the neighborhood would be a travesty IMO.

 

The Studio Charlotte plan looks amazing, but I'm skeptical they'd actually build it out as planned and then we'd end up with something half-assed that the city has sunk more money into.

[ah59396]

I just don't want an artificial ski lift. I'd LOVE to see something like that if it were built on a natural setting, but to have something like that tower over the neighborhood would be a travesty IMO.

 

The Studio Charlotte plan looks amazing, but I'm skeptical they'd actually build it out as planned and then we'd end up with something half-assed that the city has sunk more money into.

 

 

I pretty much agree with your entire opinion.  I'm not huge on the ski slope.  But I have real doubts about Studio Charlotte.  Maybe they prove me wrong.  I hope they do.  

[Third Strike]

I'm honestly content with either proposal making it through. Though, I adore the Studio Charlotte proposal more for being more ambitious, and for placing retail on the forefront of Central Avenue.

[15895]

I'm honestly content with either proposal making it through. Though, I adore the Studio Charlotte proposal more for being more ambitious, and for placing retail on the forefront of Central Avenue.

I also adore the friendlier attention to Central; but, I'm not sold on the studio part of studio Charlotte.

Now if it were Power Charlotte or Finance Charlotte as opposed to Studio Charlotte... I'd be sold. Or any industry other than film.