Eastland Mall Redevelopment

[mallguy]

Whoever buys the Eastland site, whenever that happens, will need to be sure to pay the city back for every cent that the city spent, plus a fair amount of interest.

 

It's fine for taxpayers to pick up the tab for public goods, market failures, etc.--but not subsidizing real estate investors, in my view.

[southslider]

Regardless of ethnicity, there isn't enough disposable income there to attract large-scale private-sector investment. 

 

The same developer as the Fiesta Mall beside Carowinds proposed "large-scale private-sector investment" for Eastland.  His concept just didn't sit well with the long-time residents on the Eastside.

 

Working-class households still can have purchasing power by way of density (or total number of households, instead of individual households).  Even the world's largest retailer finds East Charlotte attractive enough to open multiple new stores.

[mallguy]

If you're referring to Boxer Property, which bought Eastland, handled Plaza Fiesta and also developed other Hispanic malls in Texas and elsewhere, news reports suggest, to the contrary, that east Charlotte residents and leaders were enthusiastic and eager for Boxer to bring its plans to fruition, but Boxer couldn't make things work:

 

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/top_stories/636967/carter-gets-look-at-inspiration-for-new-eastland-mall

http://mecktimes.com/news/2012/08/31/breaking-city-buys-eastland-mall/

 

Boxer simply proposed re-tenanting Eastland with low-rent businesses.  That plan didn't work, even though the capital costs wouldn't have been nearly what a complete redevelopment of a 90-acre site would be. There isn't enough attraction to obtain enough investment from the private sector to do that.

Edited June 2, 2013 by mallguy

[southslider]

If there's no market, then how did the property appreciate under Boxer's ownership? Did the City overpay? If so, don't expect to recoup much in the sale.

And why didn't the City offer Boxer any assistance? Even the Pierson Drive Walmart got a some help to build a frontage road towards Coliseum Shopping Center. Maybe the political will wasn't there for Boxer's concept.

[mallguy]

The property didn't appreciate based on a fair-market analysis; the city just paid way more than it should.  As one of the articles I posted said: there were no interested buyers other than the city, meaning that the "value" of Eastland was zero, except due to the city's offer.

 

Why in the world would Boxer need any assistance?  It bought the main part of Eastland Mall for $2 million- about $7 per square foot.  With a purchase price that low, its costs would have been minimal; if it couldn't make any money that way, there was something wrong with its business plan (probably not enough demand for retail space). 

 

Walmart didn't "need" any assistance, either; it probably just has a better governmental relations ("lobbying") arm than Boxer does.  With Walmart's billions of dollars of profits per year, it does NOT need your tax money or mine.

[15895]

Ski slope, skateboarding park, wave pool has got my vote!

http://m.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/06/ambitious-bids-submitted-for-eastland.html

[mallguy]

If any of those developments happen, with only private funds used for the development, I'll definitely have to eat my words above.

[Norm2]

I vote for the movie studios which will incorporate commercial and residential use as well, rather than a giant entertainment complex with sky slopes and skate board parks.....

[Third Strike]

Here's a link to the detailed proposals:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d2jyw5vigu0l7ol/8NeM4EHZvS

[DEnd]

I'd love the ski slope, while in no way could it ever be remotely difficult, it'd be a great way for me to keep my form up during the summer and fall.

 

I like that both projects have commercial and residential uses mixed in. 

 

Honestly the Ark Ski Slope proposal concerns me because it is a relatively untried concept, and the skate parks I've seen around Charlotte just don't seem all that popular to me. But the Ski Slope could partner with the Whitewater center and Carowinds and offer a 3 day fun pass, which could get some Carolina and Atlanta vacationers to choose Charlotte.  

 

I also have concerns about the viability of the hotel and the "large" studio lot of the Studio Charlotte proposal.  I get that the hotel is kind of integral to that project being viable, and that part of the city is underserved by hotels, but it is underserved for a reason, and I'm not sure a few movie projects would create a steady enough stream of income to keep a hotel open there.  While I said the studio lot for this proposal was large, it is my understanding that it really isn't.  But I'm not really familiar enough with the film business to be able to say if it really is viable or not, though the involvement of a known studio company in the project is a major plus. 

 

Both proposals have their strengths and weaknesses, though if the Studio Charlotte proposal wins I hope someone will figure out a way to build an indoor ski slope in the area, as I think that'd be pretty awesome to have.

[ah59396]

If either of these projects happen without city funding....I'll GLADLY eat crow. Both of these projects look great and are really encouraging.  I'll believe it when I see it though.

[nonillogical]

Honestly the Ark Ski Slope proposal concerns me because it is a relatively untried concept, and the skate parks I've seen around Charlotte just don't seem all that popular to me. 

There is now only 1 skate park in town and it is considered woefully outdated and small, which is why it is so unpopular, not because there is no market. I think that is crazy for a city of our size, and we need one that both skaters and bikers can use, but I think it should be built somewhere in uptown or southend, since many of the skaters and riders would not be inclined to get in a car to go to the skatepark and Eastland is not a friendly route to skate or ride to. 

[15895]

^ I bet they'd be inclined to take CityLynx.

Which is the reason why it's so annoying for me that it keeps getting pushed back... The longer we piddle around the more annoying it is we don't have CityLynx connecting East/West sides

[Urbanity]

Just finished looking at both proposals and I have to say I was more impressed with the presentation of the Movie Studios proposal over ARK group.  

 

Understanding both proposals have no guarantee of full buildout - I just got more of a future thinking long term feel for the movie studio one.

[15895]

A heavy emphasis on movie studios worry me. I feel like the ARK proposal would bring people from all over the city to eastland and our city could gain even more rec. events. (CIP amateur sports complex, white water center, uptown baseball/basketball/football arena, UNCC athletic, great golf courses, speedway, drag strip, Etc. is a solid set of facilities for say the Pan American games)

I see ARK as making Eastland a regional asset and another reason to visit Charlotte.

Just my opinion

Edit: (I haven't been able to view the detailed plans yet)

Edited June 4, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[nonillogical]

I'm torn. Assuming both plans DID get fully built out...the ARK proposal would generate more traffic and tourism, as well as regional notoriety, and I could count myself among the people who would probably use it frequently. The Movie Studio proposal I think has the potential to be more of a long-term asset to the city and I find the site plan much more thoughtful and dedicated to making the area an urban center rather than a suburban island of activity.

 

Now if we could get a mountain bike dirt park added to the ARK proposal I would do anything to make it happen

[15895]

I'm nervous about the movie reliance on the movie industry in Charlotte. What keeps movies being produced in CLT vs. anywhere else? I recall someone on here likening the movie business to the convention center business. That's a little nerve racking for me. I'd love for Someone to put my fears to rest about the film industry not being a stable industry for Charlotte.

And I couldn't see the Movie studio centric proposal changing east Charlotte as much as say ARK would. With ARK I could imagine a lot more infrastructure improvements, road improvements, and the entire area getting a facelift.

[DEnd]

NC in general has the talent to attract movie production, everything from set builders, to lighting pros, to assistants.  Also because of our "low" cost of living and the relatively large talent pool NC has low production costs.  It also has good locations for on location shoots.  That said since it is a relatively small industry and high profile there is a lot of competition for it which is what makes the tax credits and subsidies necessary, because other states and countries are offering them.  It's a gamble for sure.

[rjp212]

From an architectual and urban layout standpoint, I lean towards Studio Charlotte.  For something interesting and would be a draw for the city, I lean towards ARK.  Can't they just merge the ideas 

[southslider]

City Council didn't even pick ARK when theirs was the only proposal willing to pay the City for the Carolina Theatre.  Given that history, plus Councilman Autry's bias for the movie industry, and you can guess which proposal is likely to be picked.

[15895]

^ the one that makes the most sense. I have faith council will listen to outside consultants and make a decision based off the research.

[mallguy]

What am I missing re: the Eastland sun logo?

 

I see that City Council is considering ensuring that the logo will be a centerpiece of the new development, as public art on the site. Other news articles state that the sun logo will get historic preservation protection.

 

That sun logo is bad '70s art on a bad mall in the wrong part of town and has no redeeming qualities; if Eastland had ever been updated anytime from the mid-1990s onward, the sun logo surely would have been removed.

[MilZ]

^ I'm not a big fan of it myself, but after reading about how the community sees it as a symbol of a better time, I guess I get it. It was a historical figure that help the area prosper at one point, and hopefully again one day. Although it does look outdated to me as well haha.

[Norm2]

What am I missing re: the Eastland sun logo?

 

I see that City Council is considering ensuring that the logo will be a centerpiece of the new development, as public art on the site. Other news articles state that the sun logo will get historic preservation protection.

 

That sun logo is bad '70s art on a bad mall in the wrong part of town and has no redeeming qualities; if Eastland had ever been updated anytime from the mid-1990s onward, the sun logo surely would have been removed.

The sun Logo may look like bad 70's art now, but in another 50 years people may not view it as bad art as societies taste in art changes. Sure the design sin't GREAT, but it represents the neighborhood

[15895]

I think "iconic" may be a better way to describe the sun logo