Is Atlanta the most Important City in the South

[ATLman1]

There are so many more aspects to the jobs market then Fortune 500 lists. Fortune is a magazine, not an all-out authority on things.

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I totally agree. Lakelander believes that a city is better if it has the most Fortune 500 companies. I thought he was from Jacksonville, FL. Why does he care about Houston's Fortune 500 companies?

[Spartan]

Why are you guys bickering over Fortune 500 numbers? Just think about it for a moment. There are so many more aspects to the jobs market then Fortune 500 lists. Fortune is a magazine, not an all-out authority on things.

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Heckles has a good point.

[BrandonTO416]

I think you guys know I'm not saying this on Atlanta's behalf. Its just common sense.

There are private firms in this country larger then most all those Fortune 500 companies. F500 lists show no privately held companies because private organizations don't have to disclose financial data. There's still more private companies in america then publicly held companies.

Case in point. The Carlyle Group is a multi-national firm, privately held, that is bigger then many F500 companies. Its not got a huge market capitalization of $100 billion, but its got lots of income and business none-the-less.

http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/company/index.html

Bechtel is a privately owned company. You'll never find it on a Forbes or Fortune list, its not a publicly held company and has no stock.

http://www.bechtel.com/overview.htm

Bechtel is among the largest firms in its sector - construction and engineering. Its based in San Francisco.

Looking at F500 lists and getting off on that kind of stuff is not only narrow minded, its ignoring the fact that there are more privately held companies then anything in this nation. Not everything is traded on a stock market. For every major F500 company there are many of these private companies that never go reported on those lists.

[paulblackgsx]

I think you guys know I'm not saying this on Atlanta's behalf. Its just common sense.

There are private firms in this country larger then most all those Fortune 500 companies. F500 lists show no privately held companies because private organizations don't have to disclose financial data. There's still more private companies in america then publicly held companies.

Case in point. The Carlyle Group is a multi-national firm, privately held, that is bigger then many F500 companies. Its not got a huge market capitalization of $100 billion, but its got lots of income and business none-the-less.

http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/company/index.html

Bechtel is a privately owned company. You'll never find it on a Forbes or Fortune list, its not a publicly held company and has no stock.

http://www.bechtel.com/overview.htm

Bechtel is among the largest firms in its sector - construction and engineering. Its based in San Francisco.

Looking at F500 lists and getting off on that kind of stuff is not only narrow minded, its ignoring the fact that there are more privately held companies then anything in this nation. Not everything is traded on a stock market. For every major F500 company there are many of these private companies that never go reported on those lists.

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Atlanta's second largest public company, UPS, was one of these very same private companies until a few years ago when they went public.

You are very correct Heckles.

[Spades]

Only thing Houston is known for is horrible humidity, the failure of Enron, and oil.

Hilarious yet ignorant comment.

I could say that Atlanta is known for the SAME humidity , soda and CNN. Sounds ignorant doesnt it.

Houston is home to the world's largest medical center. It is home to one of the most repescted cancer centers in the country and world.It is the 2nd largest port in the country and 6th largest in the world as far cargo.It is home to NASA tand one of the largest airport hubs for Latin America in the country. There is alot more where that came from but this is just the beginning of this city to start diversify its economy. Before you start to run off from your mouth on this city. Know the facts.

[monsoon]

I'd like to take a moment out of the rush to announce one of my favorite North American cities, Toronto, has the following stats thanks to Statistics Canada (their Census bureau).

Toronto's labor market:

source: http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/lfss03e.htm

2001 info

December 2001 jobs: 2,413,100 jobs

December 2004 jobs: 2,704,200 jobs

That's an increase of 291,000 jobs in less then 3 years. Toronto is still the hottest job market in NA, unless New York is creating more jobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually that link shows that Toronto is losing jobs now. More than 6000 in the last month. US Firms (responsible for most of the job growth in Toronto) have quit sourcing work in Ontario because the cost savings are not there anymore. This is due in part to the drop in the dollar relative to other currencys and the canadian worker is not as productive as the american worker. Most outsourcing these days it headed to Mexico, China & India.

This hottest job markets in North America are still in the Southern USA.

[FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER]

Atlanta used to be the Capitol of the South back when there were no other cities that could compare; 40 or 50 years ago, Atlanta was even more important if not bigger and larger than Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, Memphis, Miami, etc. But now, 90% of these cities have passed Atlanta by in many different ways; so any of the listed cities could say that they are the Capitol of the South, but all of these cities are huge metroplexes in their own right in addition to being important and prominent urban waste farts.

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

[BrandonTO416]

This hottest job markets in North America are still in the Southern USA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you really think so, okay. I don't see any list that suggests Toronto has fewer jobs then it did before.

Toronto's job market is hotter then Atlanta and Miami combined.

[bobliocatt]

Why are you guys bickering over Fortune 500 numbers? Just think about it for a moment. There are so many more aspects to the jobs market then Fortune 500 lists. Fortune is a magazine, not an all-out authority on things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question. Its probably the same reason we're wasting our time debating if Alanta is the most important city in the South, despite being the South's 4th largest metro area. It should be quite clear that it isn't, if you've visited any of these other places.

[benjamin]

You know what? This is now becoming one of the stupidest arguments in the world. We've gone over a million times how everyone has a different perception of "the south." That being said there cannot be one most important city in the south because not everyone is comparing the same "south." For example lakelander said atlanta is the 4th largest metro in the south which is the truth if you include miami, houston, and dallas as the south. The point, however, is that i might not consider those cities to be in the south so I am arguing with him about two different "souths." Please can we just end the argument by saying there cannot be a most important city in the south, but in anyone's perception of the south atlanta is very important. Agreed?

[JunktionFET]

Please can we just end the argument by saying there cannot be a most important city in the south, but in anyone's perception of the south atlanta is very important. Agreed?

Benjamin, has anyone actively argued that Atlanta is not very important? I don't if anyone thinks that. Atlanta certainly is important, I know I have never doubted that. However, I maintain that it is not the single most important city in the south. If you break the south up into smaller portions, then of course it would be easier to pick a "most important" city and Atlanta might win the title in its zone.

[Spartan]

If you break the south up into smaller portions, then of course it would be easier to pick a "most important" city and Atlanta might win the title in its zone.

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Realisticly that is what should happen. Atlanta is definatly the most important city within its rather large area of influence (obviously).

[benjamin]

Benjamin, has anyone actively argued that Atlanta is not very important? I don't if anyone thinks that. Atlanta certainly is important, I know I have never doubted that. However, I maintain that it is not the single most important city in the south. If you break the south up into smaller portions, then of course it would be easier to pick a "most important" city and Atlanta might win the title in its zone.

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Thats exactly what I'm saying. Everyone has a different view of the south so there is not "one most important city"

[monsoon]

Please can we just end the argument by saying there cannot be a most important city in the south, but in anyone's perception of the south atlanta is very important. Agreed?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But you were the very one who asked me to create this thread in the first place.

Ok well everything you just said was also your opinion. I dont see any proof that southerners not from georgia think that. Why dont you create a poll with this very issue? I cant because I'm not allowed. Maybe you can?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that the poll has been consistantly against Atlanta during the duration, you are now asking to end it. Am I hearing this correctly? If so, I think then the facts presented here as well as the poll has answered the question. Is Atlanta the capital of the South?

Answer: NO.

You now have the proof that you were seeking.

[paulblackgsx]

I guess the real question is, if it isn't Atlanta (as 60% or so of the reponses to the poll indicate), than what is.

I'm not sure there is a 'most important city' in the south besides DC. But hell, you could easily argue it's the most important city in the country.

[Spartan]

There really isnt any major city that the entire South can identify with as the 'most important.' It seem to me that this thread would have identified one by the 21st page

[monsoon]

I guess the real question is, if it isn't Atlanta (as 60% or so of the reponses to the poll indicate), than what is.

I'm not sure there is a 'most important city' in the south besides DC.  But hell, you could easily argue it's the most important city in the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

45% for Atlanta, 55% against. (and I welcome all the new Atlanta forumers too.)

Last time I checked, DC was the Capital of the USA. Nothing to argue about there.

[paulblackgsx]

45% for Atlanta,  55% against.  (and I welcome all the new Atlanta forumers too.) 

Last time I checked,  DC was the Capital of the USA.  Nothing to argue about there.

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I think you could make an arguement for NYC. Financial and culturally it's probably the most important vs. DC being most important for government.

[JunktionFET]

I believe it it accurate to say that New York City is the most important city in the Northeast corridor, and perhaps the most important city on the east coast. I believe it is one of the most important in the country.

However, New York City has no equal or anything closely resembling it in the southeast, so the same kind of model does not apply. The northeast corridor is a much denser collection of cities--dictated by the geography (mountains very close to the coastline) and of course historical development patterns.

The "south" covers a very large area, covering two coastlines and penetrating far inland well beyond the mountains. The "south" houses several collections of equally important cities, with no clear hands-down winner.

For someone living in Macon or Dublin, Atlanta is undoubtedly a very important city--probably the most important from their vantage point. For someone living in Raleigh (like myself), DC and Baltimore are the most important "big" cities. They are also half the distance that Atlanta is.

I'm sure that people in Macon and Dublin think of Atlanta as being their most important city. I even get the impression that people in Birmingham (a great city in itself) look to Atlanta as their most important city. I believe that is the strongest case for Atlanta coming from a medium sized city. I can't think of any other such cities with a similar view of Atlanta.

It is a combination of different factors--proximity, size, etc. Charlotte is big enough that Atlanta's influence is watered down quite a bit--leaving Charlotte split between Atlanta and DC/Baltimore (depending on who you are and which one you like better). Outside of Charlotte, ask someone from Hickory which city is more important to them, Charlotte or Atlanta. Chances are they would all say "Charlotte" just because of convenience and media exposure. If Atlanta were only an extra 30 minutes from Charlotte, then I'm sure their answer would change.

[Spartan]

I like that analysis Norff. Its probably the best and most accurate so far.

[benjamin]

No all I'm saying is that considering people have different views of what they consider "the south," there cannot be a most important city. You see I didn;t realize how there were so many different opinions about what is included in "the south." I still think that in what i consider the south (which doesn;t include miami, houston, or dallas) Atlanta is the most important city. Can anyone in here argue against Atlanta being the most important city in the south when dallad, houston, and miami are not included?

[monsoon]

No all I'm saying is that considering people have different views of what they consider "the south," there cannot be a most important city. You see I didn;t realize how there were so many different opinions about what is included in "the south." I still think that in what i consider the south (which doesn;t include miami, houston, or dallas) Atlanta is the most important city. Can anyone in here argue against Atlanta being the most important city in the south when dallad, houston, and miami are not included?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well yes. No one in NC or Virginia would consider Atlanta the most important city. And having lived in Fla. I would say that most of the peeps there would say the same thing.

Atlanta is important to Ga. Not much else. How many times do we have to say this?

[Spartan]

I'd say it is unquestionably important it GA, parts of SC, parts of TN and parts of AL, and maybe parts of Northern Florida.

[Mr.Marc]

No all I'm saying is that considering people have different views of what they consider "the south," there cannot be a most important city. You see I didn;t realize how there were so many different opinions about what is included in "the south." I still think that in what i consider the south (which doesn;t include miami, houston, or dallas) Atlanta is the most important city. Can anyone in here argue against Atlanta being the most important city in the south when dallad, houston, and miami are not included?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Miami is in the south, but its culture isn't. Houston and Dallas are also considered the south, they're just southwest. When people say south, I personally think they mean from Texas to the Carolinas, From Florida to maybe VA. When it's broken down into categories and parts are included or excluded, then people will say Southeast, Southwest. You cannot exclude Miami from not being in the south. As long as its in Florida, its in the south.

[benjamin]

Miami is in the south, but its culture isn't. Houston and Dallas are also considered the south, they're just southwest. When people say south, I personally think they mean from Texas to the Carolinas, From Florida to maybe VA. When it's broken down into categories and parts are included or excluded, then people will say Southeast, Southwest. You cannot exclude Miami from not being in the south. As long as its in Florida, its in the south.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can exlude anything I want because it is my personal opinion. Dont try to convince me to change my view of the south because I wont. monsoon, atleast we both agree on one thing, but the thing is that you say that people in NC will not consider Atlanta to be the most important city. Well the thing is I'm not saying that Atlanta is important to the entire south, I'm saying that no other city in "my view" of the south is more important as a whole than Atlanta. How can you possibly argue with that? Do you really think that when exluding Miami, Dallas, and Houston, there is any city in the south that even comes close in general importance to Atlanta?