Is Atlanta the most Important City in the South

[paulblackgsx]

I notice that you did not post your source where I did.  If you can do this, it will be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did. BLS. Same as the article. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[Mr.Marc]

Not really.  I'm still in the belief that there is no "real" most important city in the South, outside of DC, being the Nation's Capitol.  Although many would disagree, point blank, this region just doesn't have a clear cut dominent city like NYC, Chicago, or LA that reigns above the others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's just what I was saying and I will say it again. The most important cities in the south are the respective capitals of each southern state.

[paulblackgsx]

Not really.  I'm still in the belief that there is no "real" most important city in the South, outside of DC, being the Nation's Capitol.  Although many would disagree, point blank, this region just doesn't have a clear cut dominent city like NYC, Chicago, or LA that reigns above the others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure many would to. But I'm not one of them. I couldn't agree more.

[monsoon]

I did.  BLS.  Same as the article.  U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That article did not have the time period you specified. Please post the link to where you got the information (and what tables) so that we may verify your information.

[mjcatl2]

I really can't believe that this is up for discussion. It is not a matter of ego, but signficance and Atlanta is that. I will be quick to criticize Atlanta, but I am not looking at this topic in a subjective manner. All regions have centers and for the Southeast, that center is Atlanta. It doesn't matter if someone in Tampa could care and not ever to the landlocked cit, it's a matter of numbers.

[paulblackgsx]

That article did not have the time period you specified

Are you saying the article didn't use Sep 03-Sep 04 time frame I specified? Or the article didn't continue my other two trends?

Study compared changes in nonfarm employment in 226 U.S. labor markets between September 2003 and September 2004.

SOURCE: American City Business Journals analysis of data from U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

[monsoon]

I really can't believe that this is up for discussion.  It is not a matter of ego, but signficance and Atlanta is that.  I will be quick to criticize Atlanta, but I am not looking at this topic in a subjective manner.  All regions have centers and for the Southeast, that center is Atlanta.  It doesn't matter if someone in Tampa could care and not ever to the landlocked cit, it's a matter of numbers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are looking for numbers then I recommend you read back through this thread because no numbers have been presented here that indicate that Atlanta is a "Capital" of anything beyond Georgia. Except for sprawl.

[monsoon]

Are you saying the article didn't use Sep 03-Sep 04 time frame I specified?  Or the article didn't continue my other two trends?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your rebuttal specified July - Dec 2004. You have not supplied a verifiable source for those numbers. Just vague references to the BLS. You said that you are pulling raw data from tables, but you are not providing a link to those tables. So we don't know what you are reporting. I provided a link where the reader could determine this themselves. If you don't wish to do so, I understand.

The bottom line is that in terms of job growth, Atlanta is not the capital of the South. I've seen nothing here that would prove otherwise.

[paulblackgsx]

I really can't believe that this is up for discussion.  It is not a matter of ego, but signficance and Atlanta is that.  I will be quick to criticize Atlanta, but I am not looking at this topic in a subjective manner.  All regions have centers and for the Southeast, that center is Atlanta.  It doesn't matter if someone in Tampa could care and not ever to the landlocked cit, it's a matter of numbers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's here and being discussed because a certain group wants to Atlanta bash.

[paulblackgsx]

Your rebuttal specified July - Dec 2004.

[JunktionFET]

Uh yeah, dude.  It's not a conflict.

Perhaps your defensive posture has led you to read too much into the word "conflict". But if you wish to use it as the epicenter of this little argument you've started, there is nothing I can do to stop you from where I am.

You came into the discussion with a post which sounded as though it was discrediting the information presented by another forumer--a forumer who did not add any disclaimers and who included a link to the source. Sure it may not have been your intention, but in case it was, I felt it necessary to add some information to the discussion to exemplify that.

While I accept your data just fine, I do not place it above or beyond the other data. I was attempting to curb any intended or implied attempt on your part to discredit the previous data. The "disclaimer" comment was for effect--to indicate that your source is no more credible than the other.

your still the one that drew just Charlotte and Atlanta into this.

Can you read? Prove it. I did not bring Charlotte and Atlanta into this thread--the cold hard text here proves that.

Despite the fact that you've illustrated very poor reading skills, I still trust your data. How does that make you feel?

1. Your 'Captain Obvious' and felt the need to state something that had already been shown.

It's a discussion group pal. We talk about things here in an effort to learn and understand more. I suppose you aren't into that?

2. You wanted to make a point that at some point, Charlotte did out grow Atlanta

That was not my point, and I am tired of restating it over and over again.

Okay I want you to listen very carefully. Do not publicly twist my words and intentions around again. Do you understand what I am saying?

If we were talking about this in person, I sincerely hope you would exercise a bit more discretion and not bring such overbearing drama to the table. Nobody wants to read this crap.

Take my word for it, I agree with your statements and your data combined with monsoon's data proves that cities will not all experience job gains at the exact same time--they will occur at different times and happen at different rates.

Do me and everyone a favor--be a bit more confident. I'm not belittling your city and I am offended that you would even vaguely imply that. Will you leave me alone now or would you prefer to carry on at everyone else's disgust?

[paulblackgsx]

QUOTE

your still the one that drew just Charlotte and Atlanta into this.

Can you read? Prove it. I did not bring Charlotte and Atlanta into this thread--the cold hard text here proves that.

Despite the fact that you've illustrated very poor reading skills, I still trust your data. How does that make you feel?

While your accusing me of not reading. I said this, not thread. I meant discussion.

I've got no problem dropping this. Sounds like it was a misunderstanding from the beginning.

[Spartan]

Instead of arguing about what the data did or did not say, how about posting it again, with the correct link to what you are discussing. There is no need for the past page and a half of BS and nit picking at what each other is saying. This discussion is starting to become asinine.

[bobliocatt]

I really can't believe that this is up for discussion.

[ATLman1]

Birmingham would be the South's big city with the most central location and I'd say the big business center would be out of Houston or DC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you prove Houston is more of business center than Atlanta? There is no way that it is more of a business center than Atlanta.

[paulblackgsx]

Does anyone have job growth number for all of these cities, since 9/11?

[paulblackgsx]

Well, I know I personally didn't try to go there. In fact I went out of my way to point out that none of my data made any city any better anyone else. But once again, if you want to push the subject, it's the capital of job growth since 9/11.  Hey, you pushed it. I've been pretty neutral.

Wait, gotta correct myself. If you consider DC part of the south, then DC metro wins at well over 190,000 post 9/11 new jobs. DC CSA is a little more 200,000.

[BrandonTO416]

Interesting numbers. Pittsburgh looks impressive vs. its recent past.

They added 10,000 jobs roughly, instead of losing jobs.

[BrandonTO416]

Let's put this list in ranking order.

Atlanta MSA: 130320

Houston CSA: 113049

Miami CSA: 107556

Tampa MSA: 60012

Nashville MSA: 54016

Orlando MSA: 44244

Hampton/VB/Norfolk MSA: 41234

Charlotte MSA: 37517

Charleston MSA: 33487

Raleigh MSA: 24873

Jacksonville MSA: 18722

Birmingham MSA: 12055

Richmond MSA: 9120 (3.6 unemployment)

New Orleans MSA: 3413

Asheville MSA: 3158

Greensboro: -847 (doesn't seem right, does it?)

And yes, Greensboro's numbers seem normal to me. Its a small town in a metro of collective small towns. If I remember correctly, their "CSA" was broken apart from Winston Salem and High Point in the new rankings anyway.

[BrandonTO416]

I'd like to take a moment out of the rush to announce one of my favorite North American cities, Toronto, has the following stats thanks to Statistics Canada (their Census bureau).

Toronto's labor market:

source: http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/lfss03e.htm

2001 info

December 2001 jobs: 2,413,100 jobs

December 2004 jobs: 2,704,200 jobs

That's an increase of 291,000 jobs in less then 3 years. Toronto is still the hottest job market in NA, unless New York is creating more jobs.

[bobliocatt]

Interesting numbers. I had no idea, DC added that many jobs, yet still continues to lose in population. How does Dallas, Austin & San Antonio look? BTW, MIA/FTL/WPB is a MSA, not a CSA.

How can you prove Houston is more of business center than Atlanta? There is no way that it is more of a business center than Atlanta.

Hum...I don't know. Maybe its a bigger business center, because it is a larger city, larger urban area and larger metro. Maybe its a bigger business center because it has more Fortune 500 companies. Maybe it has a larger skyline, because its a much larger player, as far as business is concerned. Maybe its a bigger business center because it, not only has a large international airport, but also has one of the country's largest ports. Being a MAJOR player in the oil industry doesn't hurt it either. BTW, you know this country kills for oil. I'm not sure anyone here will go to war to protect our interest in coke.

[ATLman1]

I disagree about Houston being a bigger business center and having more Fortune 500 companies. I would like to see facts before I believe Houston is better than Atlanta in those categories. Only thing Houston is known for is horrible humidity, the failure of Enron, and oil.

[bobliocatt]

I disagree about Houston being a bigger business center and having more Fortune 500 companies. I would like to see facts before I believe Houston is better than Atlanta in those categories. Only thing Houston is known for is horrible humidity, the failure of Enron, and oil.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless I read this list wrong, Houston has 19, Altanta has 13.

Fortune 500 companies in 2004

Houston - 19

1. ConocoPhilips (7)

2. Marathon Oil Corp. (35)

3. Sysco Corp. (66)

4. Halliburton Co. (122)

5. El Paso Corp. (154)

6. Plains All American Pipeline (155)

7. Waste Management (170)

8. CenterPoint Energy (201)

9. Continental Airlines (231)

10. Kinder Morgan Energy (283)

11. Dynergy (316)

12. Baker Hughes (334)

13. Enterprise Products (336)

14. Anadarko Petroleum (345) (The Woodlands)

15. Laidlaw International (391)

16. Burlington Resources (404)

17. Apache Corp (413)

18. Lydondell Chemical (441)

19. Smith International (468)

Atlanta - 13

1. Home Depot (13)

2. UPS (42)

3. BellSouth Corp. (80)

4. Coca Cola (91)

5. Georgia-Pacific (94)

6. Coca Cola Enterprises (112)

7. Delta (150)

8. The Southern Co. (177)

9. Genuine Parts Co. (244)

10. Newell Rubbermaid (261) (Alpharetta)

11. SunTrust (272)

12. Mirant Corp (314)

13. Cox Communications (318)

[ATLman1]

Unless I read this list wrong, Houston has 19, Altanta has 13.

Fortune 500 companies in 2004

Houston - 19

1. ConocoPhilips (7)

2. Marathon Oil Corp. (35)

3. Sysco Corp. (66)

4. Halliburton Co. (122)

5. El Paso Corp. (154)

6. Plains All American Pipeline (155)

7. Waste Management (170)

8. CenterPoint Energy (201)

9. Continental Airlines (231)

10. Kinder Morgan Energy (283)

11. Dynergy (316)

12. Baker Hughes (334)

13. Enterprise Products (336)

14. Anadarko Petroleum (345) (The Woodlands)

15. Laidlaw International (391)

16. Burlington Resources (404)

17. Apache Corp (413)

18. Lydondell Chemical (441)

19. Smith International (468)

Atlanta - 13

1. Home Depot (13)

2. UPS (42)

3. BellSouth Corp. (80)

4. Coca Cola (91)

5. Georgia-Pacific (94)

6. Coca Cola Enterprises (112)

7. Delta (150)

8. The Southern Co. (177)

9. Genuine Parts Co. (244)

10. Newell Rubbermaid (261) (Alpharetta)

11. SunTrust (272)

12. Mirant Corp (314)

13. Cox Communications (318)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Take a look at the size difference and economic impact of the companies (Home Depot, UPS, Bellsouth, Coca-Cola, Georgia-Pacific, Delta, Newell Rubbermaid, Suntrust) in Atlanta. The companies in Houston don't even compare to the size of Atlanta's other than the oil companies. Other than that, Houston doesn't have much by looking at that list. Houston is strictly oil, it doesn't have a good variety like Atlanta. The companies in Atlanta are much more well-known and respected. I don't think many people like Halliburton

[BrandonTO416]

Why are you guys bickering over Fortune 500 numbers? Just think about it for a moment. There are so many more aspects to the jobs market then Fortune 500 lists. Fortune is a magazine, not an all-out authority on things.