Is Atlanta the most Important City in the South

[Spartan]

I did not read all the post so what I write may have been noted already. Atlanta wins for the South but Miami wins for the anything pertaining to Latin America. It's like an American outpost in Latin America. Yes like PR only more accessible. Also, I don't think Miami has as many corporate headquaters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to the forum FlaNatv! I don't think anyone has said that on this thread.... You have a good point though. I have often heard that Miami is the "capital" of Latin America many times.

[datone2c]

Haha! I think datone2c should decide.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

first of all mrs atlwoman,brickface and benji im not trying to write complete sentences 4 your info i was just really abbreviating just so u can read and understand and furthermore sir i made 1310 on my sat and i was top in my graduating class so we are not going to get on grammer and things of such since u cant have a argument without bringing up irrelevant topics ...stick to what u know and get a life and job.......and u should understand my abbreviations are u that slow ....well i guess so

[mjcatl2]

Technically, the city of Charlotte is twice the size of Atlanta and houses more people

Uh no. Where do you get that? Yes the "city" if Charlotte is bigger. How many times in this forum will irrelevant city populations be mentioned when what we are truly discussing are metro areas. How can one compare 1.5 million to 4.5 million?

What is the biggest city in Florida? Ohio? Most would say Miami and Cleveland, but wait hold technically Jacksonville is the biggest in FL and Columbus in Ohio. Metros that are much smaller. When mentioning this, it is not to slam the smaller metros, but to keep the discussion, the perspective realistic.

I have a lot of criticisms of Atlanta, but in the Southeast, the only city that rivals its significance is Miami. Again this does not mean Best city, but most significant.

[JunktionFET]

Uh no.  Where do you get that?  Yes the "city" if Charlotte is bigger.  How many times in this forum will irrelevant city populations be mentioned when what we are truly discussing are metro areas.  How can one compare 1.5 million to 4.5 million?

Uh yes. Read what I wrote. I very clearly state that Atlanta metro is much larger in that post. Heh, I even state the same thing a few posts earlier as well, though I used the term "city" to describe the entire metro area.

My comments were an attempt to diffuse a misunderstanding between two forumers who were discussing the subject.

Try reading more carefully and completely in the future.

[Neo]

first of all mrs atlwoman,brickface and benji  im not trying to write complete sentences 4 your info i was just really abbreviating just so u can read and understand and furthermore sir i made 1310 on my sat and i was top in my graduating class so we are not going to get on grammer and things of such since u cant have a argument without bringing up irrelevant topics ...stick to what u know and get a life and job.......and u should understand my abbreviations are u that slow ....well i guess so

Seriously, please for the sake of all others, try to be a little careful of grammar. We want to present educational information to those finding out site via search engines, etc. and typing in such a fashion makes it look like it's coming from a ten year old. It's not my intent to upset, but if you are a bit better with your sentences, spelling, grammar, etc. then you will be taken a little more seriously here.

[alexr15]

first of all mrs atlwoman,brickface and benji  im not trying to write complete sentences 4 your info i was just really abbreviating just so u can read and understand and furthermore sir i made 1310 on my sat and i was top in my graduating class so we are not going to get on grammer and things of such since u cant have a argument without bringing up irrelevant topics ...stick to what u know and get a life and job.......and u should understand my abbreviations are u that slow ....well i guess so

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What school did you go to?

[datone2c]

What school did you go to? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

for your info ms. alex i went to duke university how about u

[alexr15]

for your info ms. alex i went to duke university how about u

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse you, it's Mr. Alex and FYI, I am a senior in highschool. I was accepted EA to Stanford in December.

[paulblackgsx]

thanks lakelander atl wasnt no where near the top 4 jobs in  the south .....please read atlanta citizens and get out and visit more cities PLEASE.....lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me correct you here on a couple of things.

1. I live in Atlanta and I get to travel plenty, been to lots of cities. So please stop the stereotyping.

charlotte area which is one county

2. As of Dec 2003 Charlotte's MSA was 6 counties. Did a couple get destroyed I didn't know about?

4 million in atl

3. Speaking of old numbers, you should check yours. The 29 county area is well past 4.5 on it's way to 5 million.

more jobs in clt than atl,more people moving to charlotte than atl

4. a. Charlotte # of Jobs Dec 2004 - 841.2,000

Atlanta # of jobs Dec 2004 - 2,362.2

Want me to point you to the source of the GOVERNMENT bureau that published these stats? I bet it's the one you work for isn't it

government and census bureau

Cleaning the floors.

Your facts are WAY wrong.

For everyone else, my intention is not to start a Charlotte vs. Atlanta debate. Just showing wrong facts.

[paulblackgsx]

Would be nice to see some numbers to back up those opinions.

[benjamin]

THANK YOU! Finally some intelligent people who can distinguish between true and false facts!

[bobliocatt]

^So how do the other Southern metro job growth numbers and percentage rates compare?

[paulblackgsx]

^So how do the other Southern metro job growth numbers and percentage rates compare?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since this isn't from a report, just raw data here are a few select Florida metros. I'll try to pull the other key metros this afternoon.

Jacksonville July 2004-Dec 2004 - 3,554

Post 9/11 - 18,722

Total Dec 2004 - 587,183 (3.2%)

Unemployment - 4.2%

* Jacksonville's employment peak in summer months, so Dec would reflect lower.

Miami July 2004-Dec 2004 - 38 (not a typo)

Post 9/11 - 12,611

Total Dec 2004 - 1060166 (1.2 %)

Unemployment - 5.4

* Miami MSA only, add Ft. Lauderdale and WPB below for CSA count, summer peak as well.

Ft Lauderdale July 2004-Dec 2004 - 5,724

Post 9/11 - 58,989

Total Dec 2004 - 872676 (6.8%)

Unemployment - 4.1

* Ft. Lauderdale's employment peak is in Dec.

West Palm July 2004-Dec 2004 - 8,102

Post 9/11 - 35956

Total Dec 2004 - 577,907 (6.2%)

Unemployment - 4.4

* West Palms peak is in Dec

Orlando July 2004-Dec 2004 - (-2522)

Post 9/11 - 44244 (4.5%)

Total Dec 2004 - 972176

Unemployment - 3.8

* Orlando's employment peak is summer

[JunktionFET]

Well, if you use the latest 2004 numbers from July 2004 to Dec 2004, Atlanta grew 33,300 jobs, Charlotte grew 2,200 jobs.  The BLS numbers by month show that Atlanta always has a 'stalled' economy in terms of growth in July-Sep.

If you go further and look at Atlanta's economy post 9/11 it's added 135072 jobs, vs. Charlotte's 37517 growth since.  Charleston's growth July 2004-Dec 2004 is actually a LOSS.  Why?  Charlestons employeement peaks are during the summer.  Post 9/11 job growth is 33,487.

Atlanta economy may not be growing as fast as it once was, but it's very much a health economy.  And the actual BLS stats reveal more much than a year to year comparsion done in a Seattle business journal. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not that I care which city has more jobs or has added more jobs, your data doesn't look any more correct than monsoon's data, and yours is especially unusual since you include the word-of-mouth disclaimer about Atlanta's regularly "stalled" economy from July to September.

Who is to say that all cities must add jobs at exactly the same time. Would it not be more appropriate to say that during some periods Charlotte's job growth outpaces Atlanta's, and vice versa? I think so, and that is what this conflicting data seems to indicate.

[paulblackgsx]

Not that I care which city has more jobs or has added more jobs, your data doesn't look any more correct than monsoon's data, and yours is especially unusual since you include the word-of-mouth disclaimer about Atlanta's regularly "stalled" economy from July to September.

Who is to say that all cities must add jobs at exactly the same time. Would it not be more appropriate to say that during some periods Charlotte's job growth outpaces Atlanta's, and vice versa? I think so, and that is what this conflicting data seems to indicate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you fail to understand what I am trying to illustrate.

First of all, this isn't word of mouth, I mention my source. You can clearly see from the month to month stats a trend of some cities (Atlanta, Ft. Lauderdale, WPB) which have job peaks towards the end of the year. Probably because they are more service or retail oriented. Likewise, cities like Miami, Orlando's job peaks occur during the summer months, prehaps because of tourism related job increases that occur during those months.

This is always I went ouf of my way to illustrate job growth since 9/11, is it offers an extended trend that accounts for the fluxes in jobs for certain areas that occur during peak periods.

There is a reason you seem to think my data conflicts. If you are looking for a single view point at promote the data you would like to see, rather than looking at the big pictures which illustrates individual trends and long term trends which can often tell a different story. Yeah, there are going to conflict. There is no better example than Orlando. If I wanted to say 'Orlando economy isn't that strong' I would have ONLY posted it's 6 month trend where it lost jobs. However, to illustrate the Orlando's economy is relatively health, I'll show a trend over 3 years since 9/11 that shows Orlando added jobs at a relatively health pace (certainly on par with other metros near it's size like Jacksonville and Charlotte).

So rather than attempting to find a reason why Atlanta isn't doing as well and holding on to a single bit of information, look at all of the trends and the big picture. Again, I clearly give EVERY city it's credit, which it's job growth peaks are and a short and extended period of time picture because it displays a trurer picture than an isolated view point that only seeks to prove my point.

Frankly, I'm just short of ready to say Norff Carolina you would rather try to discredit my broader, more emcompassing numbers simply because it doesn't portray the numbers you would like to see. I'd rather have a bigger picture and make informed decisions, than simply try to hold on to a notion I have and simply find an isolated trend to prove that.

[JunktionFET]

There is a reason you seem to think my data conflicts.

Yes there is, and it is very simple. I see two sets of data from two sources, and they conflict. I'm trying to maintain objectivity. Therefore, my assumption is completely logical. Yours is passionate and it almost seems as though you are guilty of the same "presentation bias" that you falsely accuse me of.

If you are looking for a single view point at promote the data you would like to see, rather than looking at the big pictures which illustrates individual trends and long term trends which can often tell a different story.  Yeah, there are going to conflict. 

Are you illiterate? Did I not say something like that? Oh wait, I guess I presented it in a way that you did not want to see.

Frankly, I'm just short of ready to say Norff Carolina you would rather try to discredit my broader, more emcompassing numbers simply because it doesn't portray the numbers you would like to see.

Frankly, you're acting paranoid and defensive, and I believe you are projecting your own feelings onto me. I was just trying to bring some objectivity to the table in light of conflicting data I see here. I don't know you from Adam, so why would I trust your source over someone else's. Atlanta can burn to the ground again and the Native Amercians can reclaim Charlotte, I don't give two s**ts.

monsoon's data covers an entire year. You talk of long range, yet one of the sources you cite barely covers 6 months. Open your mind and don't try to engage in an intellectual battle with me.

[Mr.Marc]

I feel the August southern heat in this forum.

[paulblackgsx]

Yes there is, and it is very simple. I see two sets of data from two sources, and they conflict. I'm trying to maintain objectivity. Therefore, my assumption is completely logical. Yours is passionate and it almost seems as though you are guilty of the same "presentation bias" that you falsely accuse me of.

Are you illiterate? Did I not say something like that? Oh wait, I guess I presented it in a way that you did not want to see.

Frankly, you're acting paranoid and defensive, and I believe you are projecting your own feelings onto me. I was just trying to bring some objectivity to the table in light of conflicting data I see here. I don't know you from Adam, so why would I trust your source over someone else's. Atlanta can burn to the ground again and the Native Amercians can reclaim Charlotte, I don't give two s**ts.

monsoon's data covers an entire year. You talk of long range, yet one of the sources you cite barely covers 6 months. Open your mind and don't try to engage in an intellectual battle with me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Open your mind and don't try to engage in an intellectual battle with me.

Haha, please. Let me pull your card real quick.

First of all, the basis for the article monsoon posted and the data I posted are from the same data set. All of the articles come from the data set, all I've done is illustrate trends.

You talk of long range, yet one of the sources you cite barely covers 6 months

monsoon's article shows a one year range, I showed 6 month and 3 year. What's the issue? If there is some custom range you want to see I can get some results for you. They have month to month job numbers for every month since at least 1994. I went out of my way to point out the sway in trends, yet you seem to think there is some question to the numbers I've posted?

so why would I trust your source over someone else's

If you trust the source of the article, you trust my source. I told you who the source was, go look it up for yourself. If you think this is some battle of intellect maybe you should try doing some research based on the source I stated I used in my first post instead of just sitting backing trying to shoot holes in the data I'm reporting.

Go do some research and then talk to me about battles, open mindedness and stats you tool. Don't question whether I'm biased when you haven't even done your own research.

[JunktionFET]

You are generating an argument where none existed before. My comments have been level headed and logical to this point. You are not seeing my very simple message.

I have no desire to research this, nor have I ever indicated such. I see one piece of data sampled over the course of a year showing one result, another piece of data sampled over the course of six months (different time period) showing a different result, and yet another piece of data over an alleged three year period showing yet a different result.

Unless you are stating that your data is correct and monsoon's is fabricated, then these pieces of data all conflict. Do you get it?

I think you misunderstood my original point, and it has resulted in this moot struggle back and forth. My original point actually supported some of your original post regarding time periods, dips and peaks in job growth rate, etc... But you accuse me of some kind of presentation bias and write this rather presumptuous sounding response to me.

I will say it again: Who is to say that all cities must gain jobs at the exact same time? They will not. It is reasonable to say that some cities (like Charlotte) will gain more than other cities (like Atlanta) over a period of time, and vice versa. The conflicting nature of the data seems to show that. During one period Charlotte's performance exceeded Atlanta's, during another period Atlanta's performance exceeded Charlotte's.

Think real hard on this... If you disagree with me then you disagree with yourself.

[bobliocatt]

Does anyone have job growth number for all of these cities, since 9/11? That sounds like it would be a fair comparison.

[paulblackgsx]

Does anyone have job growth number for all of these cities, since 9/11?  That sounds like it would be a fair comparison.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a report, but I could pull the numbers out of the datasets. It would take a while. I started by posting those figures for the Florida metros above and planned on doing some other significant southern metros when I had some time.

[Mr.Marc]

I have come to the conclusion that based upon people's opinions in this forum, jobs are the dominating factor in what makes a city important. Am I right?

[monsoon]

Well, if you use the latest 2004 numbers from July 2004 to Dec 2004, Atlanta grew 33,300 jobs, Charlotte grew 2,200 jobs.  The BLS numbers by month show that Atlanta always has a 'stalled' economy in terms of growth in July-Sep.

If you go further and look at Atlanta's economy post 9/11 it's added 135072 jobs, vs. Charlotte's 37517 growth since.  Charleston's growth July 2004-Dec 2004 is actually a LOSS.  Why?  Charlestons employeement peaks are during the summer.  Post 9/11 job growth is 33,487.

Atlanta economy may not be growing as fast as it once was, but it's very much a health economy.  And the actual BLS stats reveal more much than a year to year comparsion done in a Seattle business journal. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I notice that you did not post your source where I did. If you can do this, it will be appreciated.

[bobliocatt]

I have come to the conclusion that based upon people's opinions in this forum, jobs are the dominating factor in what makes a city important. Am I right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really. I'm still in the belief that there is no "real" most important city in the South, outside of DC, being the Nation's Capitol. Although many would disagree, point blank, this region just doesn't have a clear cut dominent city like NYC, Chicago, or LA that reigns above the others.

[paulblackgsx]

You are generating an argument where none existed before. My comments have been level headed and logical to this point. You are not seeing my very simple message.

I have no desire to research this, nor have I ever indicated such. I see one piece of data sampled over the course of a year showing one result, another piece of data sampled over the course of six months (different time period) showing a different result, and yet another piece of data over an alleged three year period showing yet a different result.

Unless you are stating that your data is correct and monsoon's is fabricated, then these pieces of data all conflict. Do you get it?

I think you misunderstood my original point, and it has resulted in this moot struggle back and forth. My original point actually supported some of your original post regarding time periods, dips and peaks in job growth rate, etc... But you accuse me of some kind of presentation bias and write this rather presumptuous sounding response to me.

I will say it again: Who is to say that all cities must gain jobs at the exact same time? They will not. It is reasonable to say that some cities (like Charlotte) will gain more than other cities (like Atlanta) over a period of time, and vice versa. The conflicting nature of the data seems to show that. During one period Charlotte's performance exceeded Atlanta's, during another period Atlanta's performance exceeded Charlotte's.

Think real hard on this... If you disagree with me then you disagree with yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh yeah, dude. It's not a conflict. Maybe you should dig deep in that intellect of yours and find a better term. The data doesn't conflict. I illustrated different trends.

Yes, I pointed out what I felt like was a short sighted side effect of choosing Sep-Sep time frame for the trend the article choose. I even showed how similar shortsighted trending (July-Dec) can hurt metros like Charleston. Which is why I put the 'word-of-mouth' disclaimer, as you called it. This is why I also put longer trends in too. My view of the data was very open minded, since I looked at the data set and drew a much broader observation.

You felt the need to point out that 'It is reasonable to say that some cities (like Charlotte) will gain more than other cities (like Atlanta) over a period of time, and vice versa'

I certainly don't disagree with that statement, nor have I attempted to. But then again, your still the one that drew just Charlotte and Atlanta into this. My first example illustrated three cities:

Atlanta (long term and extreme short term trend was higher)

Charlotte (all trends seemed fairly consistent)

Charlest (sep-sep trend looked great, extreme short term was bad, long term was consistent)

See, three different trends, three examples, three cases illustrating what the different trends say about the job growth picture in each of those cities. That is what I was trying to illustrate. And as you can see, I used Charlotte, Charlest, and Atlanta because they provided this balance. Your comment refering to Atlanta and Charlotte could only be generated for two reasons then:

1. Your 'Captain Obvious' and felt the need to state something that had already been shown.

2. You wanted to make a point that at some point, Charlotte did out grow Atlanta

Since you questioned my 'word-of-mouth' disclaimer and said 'conflicts', and your continued desire to use Charlotte and Atlanta, I assumed the latter. Guess I coulda been wrong there. B)