Triangle Regional Transit

[ChiefJoJo]

^ First, despite your negative lead in, I detect an element of understanding in your language that making this investment is sensible. It is going to be as much of an economic development tool as anything, something less ideological conservatives (ie, not John Locke members) should be able to get behind.

I'm completely fine with the implementation of starting at either end first. It just seems like they are trying to split hairs by intentionally omitting a vital connection in the middle because of silly politics. In the end, it depends on how it's sold to the public, and how the public reacts. We have a lot of newcomers here, who may not even know what the TTA plan looked like. Will they see a priority plan with out a rail link to RTP as foolish or will the more veteran voters perceive this as being 'something different'. Clearly, the Wake leadership thought the latter.

More here in the N&O: Cary to RTP rail link not seen as politically viable.

Harvey Schmitt, CEO of the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce, said the "sheer magnitude" of the Feb. 4 plan "is not politically viable in the short term."

...

"They felt a lot of their needs would be satisfied by having express bus service to the airport," Cianciolo said. "Their people didn't feel they needed to have a rail link into the park as one of their high-priority items."

Since when does Harvey Schmitt speak for Wake Co? I'm sure he has the ears of some business leaders, but I can't recall him being at the forefront of any other public matter. Maybe he spoke to Joe Bryan and the Wake Co GOP indicated they would block any referendum vote with the Cary-TMC link in the plan. As I said before, the Wake Commissioners and their GOP control (4-3), always held their collective hands on the transit 'house of cards', as it were.

Either way, I predict that after the other phases open (by 2016-ish), people will think it was stupid and short-sighted to not prioritize the NW Cary to TMC link into the plan. The good thing is that planning & engineering can take place such that when the citizenry demands it be built, it can be, without too much delay.

[raleightransplant]

The Triangle's NPR station, WUNC 91.5, has had a series this week on transportation and sustainability in the fast-growing Triangle region.

They had a really good piece earlier in the week featuring Mitch Silver and George Cianciolo, and I believe David King as well.

By accessing this link, they have two stories on the mobility issue that have aired in the past 24 hours:

http://wunc.org/programs/news

[ncwebguy]

I hope the Feb 29th article is wrong, but I fear it is right.

With this "something differnt" plan, there will have to be at least *three* mainteance and storage yards -- Raleigh's diesel, Durham's diesel, and Durham/Chapel Hill light rail. This was ok for CAT/DATA/CH Transit, but if there is one continuous line, there would only need to be one facility. The unnecessary duplication of workers and the cost of land for multiple facilities will make the system cost that much more to operate.

Maybe a Durant to TMC diesel rail and CH-Duke Med/Downtown Durham light rail would be better "starter" lines. This would be Something Different, give something for everyone, and make the RTP to DT Durham or Duke Med segment an extension to an existing line, not a third system needing its own resources from 2016 till whenever.

Also, I don't see how it is 8.5 miles from NW Cary Parkway to the west of NC 54/Hopson. Google estimates it is 5.5 miles via NC 54. Maybe to the IBM stop, but not TMC.

The 29-member transit panel plans a six-hour meeting today to polish the draft report, which includes the rest of the 2020 rail plan along with a big expansion of local and regional bus service. A rail link from RTP to Raleigh-Durham International Airport is also part of the plan.

...

George Cianciolo of Chapel Hill, co-chairman of the Special Transit Advisory Commission, said Wake County members agreed to postpone the Cary connection. "They felt a lot of their needs would be satisfied by having express bus service to the airport," Cianciolo said.

[staffer]

The Independent and the N&O just blogged on today's STAC meeting. They both deal with how the STAC responded to the draft report discussed above, as well as action taken today. Note the specific endorsement of a sales tax for revenue. Bus expansion will be the first priority.

[vitaviatic]

Harvey Schmitt, CEO of the Greater Raleigh Chamber of Commerce, said the "sheer magnitude" of the Feb. 4 plan "is not politically viable in the short term."

...

"They felt a lot of their needs would be satisfied by having express bus service to the airport," Cianciolo said. "Their people didn't feel they needed to have a rail link into the park as one of their high-priority items."

Since when does Harvey Schmitt speak for Wake Co? I'm sure he has the ears of some business leaders, but I can't recall him being at the forefront of any other public matter. Maybe he spoke to Joe Bryan and the Wake Co GOP indicated they would block any referendum vote with the Cary-TMC link in the plan. As I said before, the Wake Commissioners and their GOP control (4-3), always held their collective hands on the transit 'house of cards', as it were.

Either way, I predict that after the other phases open (by 2016-ish), people will think it was stupid and short-sighted to not prioritize the NW Cary to TMC link into the plan. The good thing is that planning & engineering can take place such that when the citizenry demands it be built, it can be, without too much delay.

[monsoon]

That is why I have recently argued, in the aftermath of TTA's financing and political failures, that this effort needs to be implemented, in whatever form, at the state level, incorporating state assets, and utilizing the state's hegemony at determining corridors of transport. (I doubt that there would be much in the way of protest if this were a freeway, in fact they'd probably hire a ragtime band to play Fayetteville Street on behalf of it -- but I disgress.) It will take a state-level involvement to bulldoze the petty arguments that are bound to come. Having said that, I do somewhat agree that the cart is trying to push the horse here, in that planning a grandiose system without a demonstrably successful basic system is the metaphoric equivalent......

[staffer]

So unless the Wake and Durham legislative members are willing to blow all of their political capital to push something through this body it just isn't going to happen. The best the state will do is authorize new taxes where there is already precedent, and then, only if 100% of the local legislators support it and there is a positive referendum of voter support.

[ChiefJoJo]

The Independent and the N&O just blogged on today's STAC meeting. They both deal with how the STAC responded to the draft report discussed above, as well as action taken today. Note the specific endorsement of a sales tax for revenue. Bus expansion will be the first priority.

[monsoon]

^Indeed, I was going to make a post about this earlier. Until Wake and Raleigh give complete political buy in to this plan it is going no where. Now, where it gets interesting is when these governments are asked to join something like a MTC is on on how much power they might have over the others given the majority of the tax money will be generated within Wake county. I would not expect them to want to share it equally. "Those who have the gold make the rules".

BTW the MTC isn't a perfect organization either. While it's true the mayors from the representative towns do sit on this council, it is the town councils that decide the participation. In the typical city/manager type of arrangement that exists in most of NC's city municipalities, the mayor only votes on issues as a tie breaker. The current town councils in several of the MTC towns do not support CATS' plans and are refusing to come up with TIFF funding for the North line putting the entire thing in jeopardy. The moral of this is until there is political buy in from the ground level city councils, expect these plan to remain plans. As you correctly pointed out Chief, this is one of the reasons the TTA plan went nowhere and what appears to be missing from the resurrected version of it. It's why I am not that gun ho on the STAC's plan since it mainly seems to be a more expensive TTA plan with more taxes thrown in.

If you want an example of municipalities arguing over where to spend funds, read this column that appeared in the local Huntersville paper this week.

Also it should not be missed that even though Charlotte/Mecklenburg as a 1/2% sales tax, this doesn't even generate enough money to pay for 25% of the costs of the rail system. It is expected the other 75% will come from state and federal sources. This is a dubious assumption in these days of a broke federal government and a state that is still controlled by rural legislators and party politics.

[vitaviatic]

The state legislature will never get involved in solving RDU's transit problems in this manner. Let's keep in mind the legislature is made up of legislators from 100 counties, many of which are extremely rural and they are not interested in these matters unless there is something in it for them. Remember that as it is now, if you pave a mile of urban road in this state, you also pave a mile of rural road. It's important to understand this is how it works in this state.

So unless the Wake and Durham legislative members are willing to blow all of their political capital to push something through this body it just isn't going to happen. The best the state will do is authorize new taxes where there is already precedent, and then, only if 100% of the local legislators support it and there is a positive referendum of voter support.

[raleightransplant]

Interesting points on the state level. One thing folks at the state level do understand is that mobility (along with available water) is the one true obstacle to North Carolina in the next 20-30 years. I live in Raleigh and hear this on the news all the time. As much as it seems urban vs. rural--it affects everyone. It's a very real economic concern when you can't compete with other metros and other states (we've done quite well over the last 20-30 years--that has to continue). All of a sudden the advantages of a once less-crowded NC are gone when you look in to the future--it's happening now. What was once an affordable area is no longer the case (it's happening now). The schools are overcrowded. Crime's gone up. Oh, and that little 1.5 hour trip down to Wilmington to get away from it all is now taking you 4-5 hours because you can't get out of Raleigh. Mobility, just like those other quality of life issues are what should be scaring the bejeezus out of the people wanting to see the state prosper.

Based on that scenario---companies and individuals are MUCH less likely to want to relocate here. Why deal with all that in an era of global warming when you can just deal with the same things and have a better or same quality of life in Boston, LA, Minneapolis, Denver, heck Madison. Remember--it won't always be affordable to live here. The state did some great things to get where it is today. It's ability or lack of ability to adjust to a new time and situation will tell the story in the years to come. Should be fun.

[ChiefJoJo]

^ In the immediate future, it could very well be that transit is given a boost by the mere economics of gas prices going through the roof (record highs here in the Triangle), rather than just mobility needs. We're in a recession, most people's incomes are flat, and $100/barrel oil prices are driving up not only gasoline, but everything else. Throw in the fact that people are still driving about the same number of miles, and you have a situation where incomes are getting eaten away simply from commuting each day.

NC isn't as bad as some other SE states, but we have a long way to go before our state comes to terms with an unsustainable auto-dominated future. It will probably require the feds taking a leadership role by implementing a carbon tax, or some other measure, to really tilt equation for transit and intercity rail.

[monsoon]

Somehow we went from a discussion on the very specific STAC plan for RDU to generalities about transit in NC.

[sax184]

In fact, the "rural" counties immediately east of Raleigh probably need transit the most, as I am sure that there are far higher numbers of "supercommuters" coming from those areas into the Triangle than anybody suspects.

[vitaviatic]

Somehow we went from a discussion on the very specific STAC plan for RDU to generalities about transit in NC.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

What does everyone think of the location of the "government rail station"? From what I have read it is to be the first station to be built connecting downtown Raleigh and north Raleigh. It is supposed to be located at the corner of Lane and Dawson St's right next to Capital blvd. I am questioning the location of the "first" station. For the first one, it is not very centrally located. Maybe I have missed the idea but why start with this one? I am sure that the station that they want to build at the "WYE/warehouse" location is much more expensive? Thoughts? Just trying to start a conversation about the stations...

[orulz]

As far as I know, they're still planning on building the Government Center station near Capital, AND the Wye station at Hargett.

The trimmed down TTA line that eventually failed (Durham to Gov't Center) really didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, as the potential for park & ride for North Raleighites was next to nil.

[Gard]

For the first one, it is not very centrally located. Maybe I have missed the idea but why start with this one?

[ChiefJoJo]

I think the plan is to build from Durant Rd to NCSU in one segment, which would extend the rail two more stations beyond the Govt Center. I definitely think it's important to build the Wye station at Hargett St to tie into the downtown core and help spur TOD in the Warehouse District. Adding NCSU into the first phase would is smart, as it should draw some commuters from NE Raleigh who may work at the university, as well as connect the university back to downtown (although IMO the best way to capture this market is with a streetcar line on Hillsborough).

I also feel it's important for these three stations to be walk-up stations only--that is no park and ride access at these sites. I think you can look to Charlotte, once again, to see they did it right with the South Corridor, in that the first 8 or so stations from downtown heading south (the more urban areas) do not allow park and rides. I think it's important to concentrate these stations with development to support the line, and leave the more suburban stations outside 440 for auto traffic.

[orulz]

Saw the first of the new TTA buses on Morgan Street, after I stopped at LocoPops on Hillsborough Street today. (Locopops was quite busy, and delicious, might I add.)

Got my cell phone out and took this picture, but I was a bit late. The marquee said it was on the 105 route, but I don't know whether it was making a revenue trip, or if it was under testing. Those colors and graphics really pop out at you, and they look SHARP. I hope TTA sticks to their guns about not wrapping the buses in ads. Although, in my mind, the worst thing about a wrapped bus is not the aesthetics, but rather that it makes it much harder to see out the windows.

[staffer]

Saw the first of the new TTA buses on Morgan Street, after I stopped at LocoPops on Hillsborough Street today. (Locopops was quite busy, and delicious, might I add.)

[RALNATIVE]

Transportation officils envision the Capital Blvd route being the first segment of a new rail system.

TBJ Article

I could actually see either Capital Blvd or Glenwood Ave as being the first to get a new rail line, because they are the most heavily traveled and have major malls along those routes.

[Gard]

Transportation officils envision the Capital Blvd route being the first segment of a new rail system.

TBJ Article

I could actually see either Capital Blvd or Glenwood Ave as being the first to get a new rail line, because they are the most heavily traveled and have major malls along those routes.

[thewhister]

I could see both of these routes easily getting enough ridership. A rail link from DTR to Durant Rd and one going up to Brier Creek along Glenwood, with a stop at Crabtree would be a great start IMO. I would imagine that the one running up Capital would eventually be extended to Wake Forest, which would also enjoy a large ridership.

[raleightransplant]

I like the Capital Boulevard route. That road is a disgrace in it's present form, and it carries many commuters daily from N. Raleigh and points north in to and out of DT Raleigh every day. Anything to improve Capital Blvd would resonate with a LOT of people. This is something the folks in Wake county could really get behind.

Changing the buildings and culture is a huge start (it would take a while to change Capital's appearance but it needs to start somewhere), and what better way than to put a line in close proximity. There is booming population and growth along that line, and downtown is booming. This is a great start for Raleigh, I believe. I also think the 15-501 corridor would get great ridership right off the bat. When are we likely to see this on a ballot? Based on what STAC has proposed I know a lot needs to be agreed upon to get to this point--but any gut feelings on when we may see this?