Triangle Regional Transit

[staffer]

The Intermodal Committee of the 21st Century Transportation Committee has placed on its presentations website the five presentations from its meeting in Wilmington yesterday:

09. Railway Association of North Carolina presentation (Ed Lewis) 2-21-2008 Short line railroads

10. State Ports Authority presentation (Tom Eagar) 2-21-2008 Ports and ports rail needs.

11. Draft Intermodal Legislation (Sam Hunt) 2-21-2008 This is as presented to the committee, with a few technical corrections. 10 page document. It covers how the fund will be administered, what are the eligibility criteria, and the details of new local revenue authorizations. It does not deal with state revenues for the state share, as that is potentially being being dealt with in another committee.

12. Explanation of Legislation (Sam Hunt) 2-21-2008 Six page explanantion of above.

13. Spreadsheet of anticipated funding needs in items 11 and 12 (Sam Hunt) 2-21-2008 These are anticipated needs used to program year by year availability of $160m for twelve years. They are not proposed grant committments, but illustrations of state funding for projects presented to the committee at its meetings. The program is not proposed to end in 12 years, so projects not totally funded by 2020 could be stretched out or reduced if the 25% state share is a funding assumption.

Feel free to share these items or to ask for further explanation of anything in the documents.

Yes, I am aware that a lot of people do not like the name of the fund!

[ChiefJoJo]

This portion of the proposal is interesting:

In any multi-county referendum within either the Triangle or Triad, the total vote in all the counties voting determines the result. In both cases, if the initial favorable referendum is conducted in less than all the counties eligible, counties can be added later with approval of the applicable county board of commissioners, the applicable transportation authority, and the voters of the county or counties being added. LOCAL VEHICLE REGISTRATION FEE The 1991 General Assembly allowed TTA to levy in Wake, Durham, and Orange County

So, if this were passed, for a sales tax to be passed, it would only have to be approved by TTA or PART, and then by the county commissioners of each county. The key is the success of the referendum would be based on the a majority of the total multi-county vote, and not per a single county. This would be great! That would mean that if Wake voted 49% in favor and Orange and Durham each voted to pass the referendum by signifcant margins (say 60%), the measure would pass for ALL counties. This would be a positive step towards regionalism, and would prevent politics in one county (in the Triangle, it would certainly be Wake) from ruining the measure. Since Mecklenburg already has the tax, it doesn't really affect them, although they could implement a higher vehicle registration fee.

[staffer]

This portion of the proposal is interesting:

In any multi-county referendum within either the Triangle or Triad, the total vote in all the counties voting determines the result. In both cases, if the initial favorable referendum is conducted in less than all the counties eligible, counties can be added later with approval of the applicable county board of commissioners, the applicable transportation authority, and the voters of the county or counties being added.

So, if this were passed, for a sales tax to be passed, it would only have to be approved by TTA or PART, and then by the county commissioners of each county. The key is the success of the referendum would be based on the a majority of the total multi-county vote, and not per a single county. This would be great! That would mean that if Wake voted 49% in favor and Orange and Durham each voted to pass the referendum by signifcant margins (say 60%), the measure would pass for ALL counties. This would be a positive step towards regionalism, and would prevent politics in one county (in the Triangle, it would certainly be Wake) from ruining the measure. Since Mecklenburg already has the tax, it doesn't really affect them, although they could implement a higher vehicle registration fee.

[Gard]

Thanks for posting this stuff, staffer! I certainly think this would make it a lot easier to move things forward in the Triangle and get LRT off the ground.

[ncwebguy]

I like that the plan makes the money *matching* funds, not a give away. The "combined vote" provision is also nice, though some kind of "you only get the money if you play nice with each other" verbage, mostly for the Triangle and Triad, but a little for the counties next to Mecklenburg as well. Though if Meck wants to go it alone, they should pay for it alone as well.

And I like the ports/rail piece. Maybe something along the lines of the Global Trans Park could still kick in, with containers coming into NC ports and then moved by train to distribution centers near the I-95 corridor. Or build a transfer station somewhere to go from "port rail" to the high speed rail corridor. Moving things by train is a lot more efficient than trucks, as it would reduce oil consumption and carbon output, and provide congestion relief created by trucks on the highways.

I don't know how I'd feel about a Slater Road TTA transfer center. It might just be another stopgap, hoping for eventual rail service to anchor an RTP multimodal center. Though it would be closer to RDU airport, making the 747 shuttle a little quicker than it is now. Though if that pulled the Durham/Chapel Hill loop buses off Alexander and put them on Cornwallis and Davis, my current office would be screwed since no shuttles cover the area.

[ChiefJoJo]

Didn't know if folks saw this story on WRAL about Raleigh seeking more mass transit funding options. The feds aren't giving out much money these days, so there is more pressure to come up with local dollars for these types of programs. CAT's fleet is aging rapidly, and they need to find some short term solutions before a half cent tax could come to fruition. There does seem to be a lot of groundswell on funding transit these days among people that matter, so that can only be positive.

[JeffC]

according to staffer's documents, the 1/2 cent sales tax passed 58-42% in Mecklenburg the first time, and 70% to 30% the second time. I think it would be approved by similar, if not greater, margins in all Triangle counties, including Wake. Do you guys think organized opposition would emerge? The Russell Capps/Pope crowd seem to be on the wane, and even the Locke Foundation has been fairly quiet on transit...

[ChiefJoJo]

according to staffer's documents, the 1/2 cent sales tax passed 58-42% in Mecklenburg the first time, and 70% to 30% the second time. I think it would be approved by similar, if not greater, margins in all Triangle counties, including Wake. Do you guys think organized opposition would emerge? The Russell Capps/Pope crowd seem to be on the wane, and even the Locke Foundation has been fairly quiet on transit...

[cthayes75]

according to staffer's documents, the 1/2 cent sales tax passed 58-42% in Mecklenburg the first time, and 70% to 30% the second time. I think it would be approved by similar, if not greater, margins in all Triangle counties, including Wake. Do you guys think organized opposition would emerge? The Russell Capps/Pope crowd seem to be on the wane, and even the Locke Foundation has been fairly quiet on transit...

[ChiefJoJo]

FYI, you can download the STAC draft report and maps here. In particular, this is a cool poster that shows a potential future transit service map.

Of note: now, the Cary to RTP is not considered a priority corridor and the commuter rail is apparently gone from the mix, or at least I don't see it. Do they assume it to be a NCRR/Amtrak/NCDOT operation? Plenty of priority/express buses though.

Not an encouraging sign as we lead up to the STAC meeting this Friday.

In interviews over the past two weeks, commission members and staff have described the emerging view among Wake County's representatives, especially those from the business community, that the STAC should stay out of operational issues and leave them to the three county governments to decide for themselves.

...

Raleigh members have also raised red flags about equity, Cianciolo and other officials say. Since Wake County has two-thirds of the Triangle's population, it's wary of contributing money to a regional body that may vote to spend it-or too much of it-outside of Wake.

Is this the beginning of the unraveling of the tenuous regional consensus? Could be. What purpose does the removal of the Cary-RTP link serve? I hate to frame it this way, but it almost seems like the STAC came up with a compelling vision, only to have the leadership remove what would make it a truly regional system.

[staffer]

FYI, you can download the STAC draft report and maps here. In particular, this is a cool poster that shows a potential future transit service map.

Of note: now, the Cary to RTP is not considered a priority corridor and the commuter rail is apparently gone from the mix, or at least I don't see it. Not an encouraging sign as we lead up to the STAC meeting this Friday.

In interviews over the past two weeks, commission members and staff have described the emerging view among Wake County's representatives, especially those from the business community, that the STAC should stay out of operational issues and leave them to the three county governments to decide for themselves.

...

Raleigh members have also raised red flags about equity, Cianciolo and other officials say. Since Wake County has two-thirds of the Triangle's population, it's wary of contributing money to a regional body that may vote to spend it-or too much of it-outside of Wake.

Is this the beginning of the unraveling of the tenuous regional consensus? Could be. What purpose does the removal of the Cary-RTP link serve? I hate to frame it this way, but it almost seems like the STAC came up with a compelling vision, only to have the leadership remove what would make it a truly regional system.

[orulz]

That sounds ridiculous. That sort of balkanization will slice the utility of this transit line in half. Maybe they should throw some of the Wake County "circulators" into the mix with higher priority to disarm the folks complaining about Wake having 2/3 the population but getting 1/3 the transit projects.

[staffer]

That sounds ridiculous. That sort of balkanization will slice the utility of this transit line in half.

[orulz]

I agree that we have to start somewhere. My problem is not with phasing of the transit lines; my problem is that the phasing plan leaves a gaping hole in the middle... unless I'm missing something here.

Why not let Phase I be from Durant Road to Triangle Metro Center? I suspect that the reason for this is that TMC lies just over the Durham County line. If we can't get the engines of regional cooperation working well enough to extend the first phase of the transit line a half mile over the county line, when that location makes ten times more sense as a terminus (much more easily accessed from the highway, better location for a bus transfer center, a huge amount of potential for development as the "downtown" of RTP) then that's very, very frustrating. Leaving the single segment that bridges the county line unbuilt, simply because it bridges the county line, is what I find to be absurd. This is an example of politics getting in the way of transportation in the worst way.

Again, am I missing something here??

They got I-540 built, which is a massively Wake-focused project, even though the actual I-40/I-540 interchange lies within Durham county. Can't we awaken some of that "sweeping, regional visionalism and cooperation" (<-sarcasm) that allowed that to happen, in order to build an extra half-mile of track and one more station?

If we're going to split this thing up along the lines of the MPO's, I would say let CAMPO be responsible for the tracks from Durant to TMC, and DCHC be responsible for Duke to TMC. The TMC station itself could either be built as a joint project (GASP! regionalism!) or built by RTF or some other entity that derives funding from both counties.

[ChiefJoJo]

So it appears that the '2020 plan priorities' have faded away now, to be replaced with a (2035?) regional transit vision and 'priority rail projects,' that do not include NW Cary to TMC, and do not include the commuter rail study that NCRR is doing, and the STAC had previously explored. At least the NW Cary to TMC 'gap' is in the ultimate 2035 vision, but no mention whatsoever of commuter rail on the NCRR, which is surprising, considering it would seem to be the easiest to implement quickly, and the feasibility study results should be out this summer.

I won't be attending the STAC tomorrow, but I would be interested in seeing if members comment on these omissions and the myriad issues surrounding the regional vs. east/west-approach. Maybe I'm overreacting to some of the quotes, but until somebody shows me otherwise, the business and political leaders need to get with the program on the regional concept or the IMO whole plan won't work. From talking to some of the STAC members, there have been some very good connections made across the region through this process and it would be a shame to see the leadership snap those bonds apart for some mysterious political game.

[orulz]

In particular, this is a cool poster that shows a potential future transit service map.

[staffer]

A map of proposed enhanced regional bus service corridors in the Triangle has been uploaded. This is for Friday's STAC meeting. Note potential express bus service to Burlington, Rougemont, Fuquay, Selma, Pittsboro, Zebulon, and Franklinton.

[ncwebguy]

By not having the TMC to NW Cary link by 2020, it will create a gap too big to cross by 2035. Are there really more people who live in/near Preston and work to the east (NCSU, DT Raleigh Triangle Town Center) than RTP to the west?

I could see a resident in North Raleigh and points further north and east doing

car park -> train ride to TMC -> RTP office shuttle/circulator

but not

car park -> train ride to NW Cary -> bus to TMC -> RTP office shuttle/circulator

The same goes for Wake County residents along the rail corridor.

And forget about Wake County residents taking the train to events at the DBAP or DPAC, let alone downtown durham itself. The direct shuttles are good for college students and employess crossing the county line, but a train would make it more dependable and less succeptible to I-40 traffic.

Transit Oriented Design at Triangle Metro Center will be significantly diminished if it is the end of the Durham line for 10+ years instead of the *hub* of a through line it could be. There might be some TOD at NW Cary, but it won't develop into a "short transit ride to Southpoint/downtown Durham/RTP/DT Raleigh" focal point. And Morrisville's would be ZERO without a train stop.

Is crossing 540 so cost-prohibitive that it is worth killing the regionalism this plan could foster? The rails already pass underneath NC 540 along NC 54, so I don't think that is the issue.

I support pulling in people from Pittsboro, Smithfield/Selma, Franklinton, etc. But why should Orange, Durham, and Wake counties foot the bill for buses going to Chatam, Johnston, and Franklin counties? Will the "congestion relief" be enough to justify the costs?

[raleightransplant]

I'm trying so hard to understand all this, but I'm scratching my head on the map ChiefJoJo posted. It appears in that map that the only light rail showing in baby blue is the Durham to Chapel Hill corridor (I thought we were starting with that along with a North Raleigh or Wake Forest line to DT Raleigh as well--bookends of the region). I understand we have to start somewhere, and I think I get the logic in that. The commuter line would cut east-west through the Triangle, and this Durham and Chapel Hill light rail line would be a successful starter line for the region (the thinking being that people on that end of the Triangle might be more receptive to such a thing). Am I wrong on that?

Sorry for the ignorance. I'm going through the posts and picking up as much as I can!

[staffer]

Is crossing 540 so cost-prohibitive that it is worth killing the regionalism this plan could foster? The rails already pass underneath NC 540 along NC 54, so I don't think that is the issue.

I support pulling in people from Pittsboro, Smithfield/Selma, Franklinton, etc. But why should Orange, Durham, and Wake counties foot the bill for buses going to Chatam, Johnston, and Franklin counties? Will the "congestion relief" be enough to justify the costs?

[raleightransplant]

^^

Thanks! I just had the chance to look at the map posted on the STAC site. I'm clear on that now.

[orulz]

I think you're getting caught up on the term "light rail," which is one that is thrown around a lot. Some people and media outlets use the term "light rail" to describe anything other than freight trains, which is completely wrong.

Notice the royal blue line on Jojo's map. That is labeled as "Regional Rail." Regional rail is what has been contemplated for the TTA line all along. Regional Rail will have light rail-like headways (15 minutes), greater station spacing, and will be allowed to run in the same corridor (but on different tracks) as freight and Amtrak trains.

Charlotte's LYNX line is an example of Light Rail. The vehicles are electric, low-floored, and are not much bigger than buses (though quite a bit longer). Regional Rail would use larger, high-platform, diesel-powered vehicles that pass Federal Railroad Administration standards for sturdiness.

[staffer]

I think you're getting caught up on the term "light rail," which is one that is thrown around a lot. Some people and media outlets use the term "light rail" to describe anything other than freight trains, which is completely wrong.

Notice the royal blue line on Jojo's map. That is labeled as "Regional Rail." Regional rail is what has been contemplated for the TTA line all along. Regional Rail will have light rail-like headways (15 minutes), greater station spacing, and will be allowed to run in the same corridor (but on different tracks) as freight and Amtrak trains.

Charlotte's LYNX line is an example of Light Rail. The vehicles are electric, low-floored, and are not much bigger than buses (though quite a bit longer). Regional Rail would use larger, high-platform, diesel-powered vehicles that pass Federal Railroad Administration standards for sturdiness.

[ncwebguy]

Thanks! I guessed that about 540, but wanted to be sure. I know getting through Morrisville would be a pain, but if they paired rail with a widening of NC 54, it could do wonders for the area. Or NC 54 might not need to be widened if enough of that traffic used transit instead. Rail through there would better connect the Triangle *and* that area to the rest of the Triangle. There seemed to be some change of heart in Morrisville leadership toward rail and a stop in town limits... did that disappear?

Using google maps and a pen cap, there appears to be only 5-6 miles of track between the NW Cary station (just east of NW Cary Parkway) and Triangle Metro Center. Is it really worth keeping "seperate but equal" systems because there is no destination in that stretch right now? Or are officials worried so much about it looking like TTA's old plan that they put in the five mile gap to make it look different? It just feels like the center jigsaw puzzle piece that would complete the transit picture.

It is interesting that Morrisville's recently approved Park West "Village" is within walking distance of the NW Cary station yet turns its back on it.

[cthayes75]

I'm probably one of the last people who would advocate spending taxpayer dollars on this financial nightmare, but...

It seems to make sense (at least to anti-transit people like me) that they scrap this whole "regional" fantasy and start small.

Make the first line from Downtown Raleigh to Durant Road. Capital Blvd. is an absolute nightmare (both traffic wise and poorly developed), everyone will agree to that.

Plus the opportunity for development is tremendous on that corridor, esecially the portions inside the beltline -- specifically along the warehouse section in between Wade Ave and Peace Street. Throw in the Raleigh site where all the garbage trucks are parked, and you have a corridor of natural growth out of downtown, up Glenwood South and back over on Peace up Capital Blvd.

Heck, you could even extend the line past Durant out to Wakefield or Wake Forest (and then Franklinton) and catch all those commuters on the N-S corridor through Raleigh.

Provide what is seriously lacking in Raleigh transportation -- an effecient way to go N-S from downtown to Wake Forest.

If you think the South Blvd. line in Charlotte has been successful, why not attempt to recreate it in Raleigh -- on ONE corridor first instead of this pie in the sky vision of a regional rail system.

If you want people like me on board, start small, and prove it can work, then add lines and routes.

The current plan tries to do to much and is way too expensive.