Triangle Regional Transit

[Creasy336]

Being a resident of Alamance County the regional bus system represents commuting paterns of our area well. I like how they managed to include the Saxaphaw area (Southwestern Alamance County) which is mainly Chapel Hill commuters. Now regarding the whole plan I think its very comprehensive but will only work if the Triangle's local transit agencies are consoldiated or atleast work together better than they do now. Downtown Durham will have alot of transit going on with both DMU and Light Rail. That should really spur quality urban growth between Duke and the CBD.

[staffer]

Downtown Durham will have alot of transit going on with both DMU and Light Rail. That should really spur quality urban growth between Duke and the CBD.

[ChiefJoJo]

yes, the map inset in fact shows parallel LRT and DMU service from Duke Hospital to the downtown Durham Intermodal Center, but I think this may reflect potential decisions to be made down the road, namely, where are the termini of the two lines. It is possible that that segment may have JUST LRT or JUST DMU service. The plus of having both is less transfers, the minus is cost for duplicative service, another plus is that this would result in service every 5 minutes in rush hour between these points. Four new tracks may not fit in the right of way if the SE High Speed Rail project comes to fruition and requires two tracks of its own!

[orulz]

Hmm, I had always considered LRT on the NCRR right-of-way was strictly off limits, per the railroads (FRA crash-worthiness). I assume the LRT would utilize Erwin Rd at DUMC and if it were to extend to the intermodal center, it could utilize Pettigrew St, which runs parallel to the tracks on the south side. It seems to me, it's good policy to keep the decision on the terminus open for now. Ultimately, I would think the decision will rest on ridership gained on the LRT line vs. engineering & costs for that last segment from DUMC to the intermodal terminal vs how much it would be for the DMU coming the other direction, as well as the best location for a transfer. It might also depend on segmentation of the lines, ie, if the LRT is built before the DMU to Triangle Metro Center (TMC)...

My initial thoughts are that LRT to intermodal with a transfer to DMU to TMC (no duplicative service) would make the most sense. The intermodal center is a more logical transfer point, allowing Chapel Hill commuters to reach the Amtrak/SEHSR station/DATA/greyhound/taxi without a transfer. I think you wuld see an nice bump in LRT ridership by making that extension... more appreciably than a corresponding western extension of DMU the other direction.

[staffer]

Hmm, I had always considered LRT on the NCRR right-of-way was strictly off limits, per the railroads (FRA crash-worthiness).

[ChiefJoJo]

It's sharing tracks that is verboten per FRA regs, not sharing ROW. Also, the track separation of LRT and DMU/Amtrak/freight heavy rail is greater than the track separation for a DMU separate from Amtrak/freight. I think the difference is an additional 12 feet, but it may be more. In Charlotte, LRT and NS freight share the same ROW for several miles, but there is substantial separation when at the same grade and a fence, and where the lines cross, the LRT has an elevated flyover or is elevated for a substantial run and is OVER the freight several places.

BTW the NCRR has said it does not oppose LRT in its corridor, as long as FRA regs are complied with.

[orulz]

Just curious, who operates this RR line? I never saw the prelim design plans from TTA, but I assume they would have peeled off the NCRR and built a new flyover to the south to tie into this line to penetrate DUMC.

[ChiefJoJo]

Even though this is not quite a final plan, WRAL & New Raleigh are covering it.

[DB78]

The WRAL article says it could all be complete by 2035!!! That's absurd. It's hard to take any plan serious that is 27 years from completion. The city of Raleigh will have 700,000 people within its city limits by then and Cary will be well over 200,000 by then. Durham city be over 400,000 by then? In 27 years, I expect the world will have mastered nuclear fusion and solar energy will be much bigger, so diesel trains will be awfully inefficient by then. 27 years? Is this an April Fool's joke? I've been clicking on this specific thread about once a week over 2 years now to see any transit developments. I'm officially done looking at this topic forever. I know this sounds like just an angry rant...and well it is. In 27 years most of us in our 20s and 30s will be grandparents. Even 17 years from now is a pathetic idea. Bye bye.

[staffer]

The WRAL article says it could all be complete by 2035!!! That's absurd. It's hard to take any plan serious that is 27 years from completion. The city of Raleigh will have 700,000 people within its city limits by then and Cary will be well over 200,000 by then. Durham city be over 400,000 by then? In 27 years, I expect the world will have mastered nuclear fusion and solar energy will be much bigger, so diesel trains will be awfully inefficient by then. 27 years? Is this an April Fool's joke? I've been clicking on this specific thread about once a week over 2 years now to see any transit developments. I'm officially done looking at this topic forever. I know this sounds like just an angry rant...and well it is. In 27 years most of us in our 20s and 30s will be grandparents. Even 17 years from now is a pathetic idea. Bye bye.

[ChiefJoJo]

The WRAL article says it could all be complete by 2035!!! That's absurd. It's hard to take any plan serious that is 27 years from completion. The city of Raleigh will have 700,000 people within its city limits by then and Cary will be well over 200,000 by then. Durham city be over 400,000 by then? In 27 years, I expect the world will have mastered nuclear fusion and solar energy will be much bigger, so diesel trains will be awfully inefficient by then. 27 years? Is this an April Fool's joke? I've been clicking on this specific thread about once a week over 2 years now to see any transit developments. I'm officially done looking at this topic forever. I know this sounds like just an angry rant...and well it is. In 27 years most of us in our 20s and 30s will be grandparents. Even 17 years from now is a pathetic idea. Bye bye.

[phoenixnc]

I just don't understand how it can take so long!

Even if we go with the basic plan, I don't understand how it can take 20 years + to build new tracks, get the plans laid out, build stations, infrastructure, get the trains, synchronize the lights, get buses, etc. I'm not thinking that construction would take that long, so why the long time?

I totally support this project, the tax increase, everything... but it's getting frustrating.

[dbearhug]

^^

Here's the response I got back from the STAC coordinator:

Plans for the Duke Medical Center DMU station are not complete and

additional coordination with Duke University will be required,

particularly as the University and Medical Center update their master

plans. However, based on our negotiations to date, the Duke Medical

Center DMU station would be, as you have suggested, on the south side of

Elba Street and north side of the garage which is located at the corner

of Fulton and Erwin. Eastbound (towards Downtown Durham) DMU tracks

would follow Elba Street and cross NC 147 in the vicinity of the Elba

Street highway ramp. The Duke station platform is elevated on the west

(Fulton Street) end and at grade at the east end. Patrons could

therefore access the platform at grade on the east end and through a

stairway/elevator structure onto Fulton Street, a short walk from the

escalator that is linked to the tunnel under Erwin Road. Hopefully a

pedestrian bridge over Fulton Street that would link the station

platform and the Veterans Administration Hospital could be negotiated.

While not provided at the Duke station, park and ride options will be

located at the 9th Street station which is easily accessible from the

Swift Street exit, then onto Pettigrew Street using intersection

connections would specifically allow left turns. This station is also

anticipated to attract walk and bike to transit as well as kiss and ride

(drop-off) access from adjacent neighborhoods. All of the stations will

have local bus connections and in the case of the Duke Med and 9th

Street Stations, Duke University transit as well.

The corridor reserved by the City of Durham for the fixed guideway

connection between Durham and UNC Hospital is on the north side of Erwin

Road. More refinement will be required to determine the exact

configuration of the station, but because both Light Rail Transit (LRT)

and Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) vehicles could run in the street, it Is

feasible to develop stations on Erwin Road. Currently, the LRT/BRT line

continues on to the 9th Street DMU Station and then terminates at the

Downtown Durham Multimodal Center. Patrons traveling between Duke and

Chapel Hill who may want to continue into Downtown Durham would not need

to change transit vehicles - although the transfer at each of the 3

stations would be easy. Based on studying travel patterns throughout

our region, trips between Chapel Hill and RTP are more likely to take a

transit option that would provide connections to the Triangle Metro

Center DMU station and then onto the airport or north RTP; or southbound

on the DMU rail service to Cary and Raleigh.

Juanita Shearer-Swink

Triangle Transit

[staffer]

ITRE staff has posted a second draft of the STAC regional transit report (previous draft located in RESOURCES section) incorporating some of the comments received since the initial release two weeks ago. The next STAC meeting will be April 25th at the Archie K. Davis Conference Center in Research Triangle Park

• Full Report, including maps (2.3mb) 46 pages

• Full Appendices (5.8mb) 82 pages

[Gard]

Thanks for posting that, Staffer

The one thing (I'm probably reading into it way too much) that concerns me is "park and ride LOTS." I would hope they change that to DECKS. I'm not too keen on seeing any more seas of asphalt spread.

[cophead567]

gas prices were a factor in me giving the bus a try. I was also curious about the experience and just jumped right into it. I used to drive from downtown out to RTP about 5 days a week. I'm now trying to do that at least 3 times a week, which means the car just sits around. I would ride 5 times a week but there are sometimes places I want to go other then from home to work and back and having the car is just easier. there are so many things that need improvement. I once thought that rail would be needed to really get transit moving but I'm now thinking that a better regional bus plan could really get people moving around. I'll save the long list of complaints for another time.

[ChiefJoJo]

^ In the short term, better bus service will really help a lot. If a sales tax is approved, money can be spent immediately on purchases, benches, improved signs, shelters, 'next bus' tech, park and ride lots, etc. I think the gas crunch can only help illustrate the urgency to do this now. In the long term, buses will still serve a valuable purpose, but rail will only be able to move great volumes of people off the roadway network, taking advantage of exclusive rights-of-way to ensure consistent , quick travel time. I would very much like to see the area develop select routes for signal preemption, so that buses have more advantages in mixed traffic.

The important, missing piece is land use. If the region (especially Wake) does not develop in a way that supports transit usage (more urban form & mixed use LU in commercial corridors), then any transit plan will not be as successful as it could be. We can't just keep letting land get developed willy-nilly on into the hinterlands, and then wonder why transit ridership is not keeping up with population growth. In Raleigh and other cities in the region, I would like to see site plans evauated (denied/approved) on the basis of transit accessibility.

[mattm]

...

The important, missing piece is land use. If the region (especially Wake) does not develop in a way that supports transit usage (more urban form & mixed use LU in commercial corridors), then any transit plan will not be as successful as it could be. We can't just keep letting land get developed willy-nilly on into the hinterlands, and then wonder why transit ridership is not keeping up with population growth. In Raleigh and other cities in the region, I would like to see site plans evauated (denied/approved) on the basis of transit accessibility.

[ERJ170]

I have put together an idea for the light rail system.. I want opinions on what everyone thinks.. unless you flame me, then neva mind..

Heel (White Line) = UNC, Chapel Hill, Southpoint, RTP-West, RTP-Davis, RTP-East, RDU, SAS, Cary, Kildaire, Apex

Devil (Blue Line) = Downtown, Duke, RTP-Central, RTP-Davis, RTP-East, RDU, SAS, Cary, RBC, NCSU, Convention Center/Intermodial Center, New Bern, Knightdale

Eagle (Brown Line) = Falls Church, Creedmore, Glenwood, Atlantic, Wake Forest, Convention Center/Intermodial Center, NCSU, RBC, Ebenezer, Briar Creek, NC98

Wolf (Red Line) = Garner, South Road, Convention Center, Peace, Highwoods, Capital, New Hope, Triangle TownCenter, Perry, Wake Forest

I am sure there are other stations that could be added, but I was just trying to think of somewhat popular places to go. RTP-West is 54/55 area, RTP-Center is Cornwallis area, RTP-East is Page Road area

[phoenixnc]

I have put together an idea for the light rail system.. I want opinions on what everyone thinks.. unless you flame me, then neva mind..

Heel (White Line) = UNC, Chapel Hill, Southpoint, RTP-West, RTP-Davis, RTP-East, RDU, SAS, Cary, Kildaire, Apex

Devil (Blue Line) = Downtown, Duke, RTP-Central, RTP-Davis, RTP-East, RDU, SAS, Cary, RBC, NCSU, Convention Center/Intermodial Center, New Bern, Knightdale

Eagle (Brown Line) = Falls Church, Creedmore, Glenwood, Atlantic, Wake Forest, Convention Center/Intermodial Center, NCSU, RBC, Ebenezer, Briar Creek, NC98

Wolf (Red Line) = Garner, South Road, Convention Center, Peace, Highwoods, Capital, New Hope, Triangle TownCenter, Perry, Wake Forest

I am sure there are other stations that could be added, but I was just trying to think of somewhat popular places to go. RTP-West is 54/55 area, RTP-Center is Cornwallis area, RTP-East is Page Road area

[Jones_]

Even though naming the lines has nothing to do with effectiveness of the system, I think somehow that helps widen the conversation a bit to those who maybe did not care too much before. Slight as that touch is, it worked on me insomuch as I said "cool". Just like babies are born 9 months later in the area a team wins a national championship(Boston ought to be booming), maybe those little sports themed names will help the lines themselves be born.

[ERJ170]

Well, one can always call the RBC station the Hurricane RBC station..

And on can call the Cary 1 station the "whatever the soccer team that plays there" station..

[ChiefJoJo]

This is what we really need... of course it will never happen, but your plan actually serves more people and takes you to actual places you need to go. The names might need a little work, the "wolf" should go through NC State, but that's not important. It's the concept. The present plan doesn't serve enough people. Period. If I lived near a station, I would use it, but presently, I am more than 5 miles from the nearest station, so I would likely never use it. And, the system doesn't go near the airport. If we want a successful light rail system, it must actually go to where people need! Depending on where the Creedmoor stop is, I would definitely use it, but the bad thing is that along creedmoor, there is hardly any space for a rail, unless you do it monorail-style or make it a subway.

[JDC]

It's probably not such a good idea for the Eagle line to be the "brown" line. Just sayin'.

[Atlside]

TTA has changed the look of their buses

old bus colors

new logo

old logo