New Greenville developments

[vicupstate]

There is a phase two being discussed , but it will not be built this year.  Depends on the market.  They have sold 100+ units and 14 remain.  It has been very successful by anyone's  opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info.

So they are going to build a "new" building with Mill-type architecture? Or will it be more like Poinsett Corners/Bookends type construction? Where is it going exactly?

[MAJIKMAN]

THIS ARTICLE in the Greenville News is an exciting report on the expansion of Fall For Greenville.  The already massive festival is planning to grow into the West End (incl. Falls Park and beyond) this year!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seem as if Turner South's My south gig will be there to. Check this out. http://alt.turnersouth.com/msot/2005/greenville.html

[Spartan]

The City,  Greenville News and  Greenville Journal are monitoring this discussion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's good to know. They should give us some credit in the paper sometime

[goodbye]

I think you can see us if you read between the lines in some cases. I don't believe we should be so arrogant as to visualize our posts actually "steering" any action by the local governments, but it is nice to know others care what the public thinks and has to say about important local issues. I'm the first to applaud any assumed "response" to these discussions in the news. We all are among the ones who care most about the present and future success of the Upstate. Whether or not anyone of great importance ever reads our insights is not as vital (to myself at least) as the fact that we have this place to share our passion with other like-minded individuals.

[NYTransplant]

I think you can see us if you read between the lines in some cases.  I don't believe we should be so arrogant as to visualize our posts actually "steering" any action by the local governments, but it is nice to know others care what the public thinks and has to say about important local issues.  I'm the first to applaud any assumed "response" to these discussions in the news.  We all are among the ones who care most about the present and future success of the Upstate.  Whether or not anyone of great importance ever reads our insights is not as vital (to myself at least) as the fact that we have this place to share our passion with other like-minded individuals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Skyliner.

[Spartan]

Very true, Skyliner. However, our Grand Rapids, MI section has recieved plugs in its local papers before on muliple occasions

[goodbye]

Excellent!

[g-man430]

What is taking them so long to start on the camperdown condos? I mean they said construction was supposed to start this summer and its almost september and it still hasnt started yet.

[RestedTraveler]

What is taking them so long to start on the camperdown condos?  I mean they said construction was supposed to start this summer and its almost september and it still hasnt started yet. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe Harper Corp has bitten off more than they can chew with River Place, River House, ICAR, etc. ? I doubt it though. It probably has more to do with occupancy issues.

[goodbye]

They (Harper) just hired another project manager - a graduate from Clemson with 25 years experience, so who knows?

[RestedTraveler]

There's a great little feature article in the Business secton of today's Greenville News about Greenville's Director of Economic Development, Nancy Whitworth.

Check it out: Click Here.

It's amazing how many cities have sent delegations to Greenville: Winston-Salem, NC; Durham, NC; Raleigh, NC; Birmingham, AL; Montgomery, AL; Augusta, GA; Columbus, GA; Marietta, GA; Reading, PA.

More to come: Greensboro, NC; Fort Wayne, IN (Incidentally, my brother-in-law had visited back in the Spring and mentioned Greenville to Ft. Wayne City Councilman Tom Smith and Mayor Graham Richard upon his return - he had told me when I visited Fort Wayne a couple of weeks ago that the City of Fort Wayne was planning to send a delegation to Greenville - cool beans B) )

Additionally, Mayor Knox White and other city officials have traveled to Raleigh, NC; Greensboro, NC; Winston-Salem, NC; my home-town of Ocala, FL; Waco, Texas; and Leihigh Valley, PA to speak about downtown revitalization.

I'm sure there are many, many more to come.

It seems from this article that the focus has shifted from the Central Business District to the West End District, and is now beginning to shift to Pleasantburg and along the I-85 corridor.

While both are vital areas in need of redevelopment/development, my own personal view is that the I-85 corridor is key to getting passers-by and passers-through to recognize Greenville. It's the "curb appeal" that will make people want to step up onto Greenville's sidewalk and ring the front doorbell and visit our home.

I'd like to see the city concentrate on more infill in the Central Business District and the West End District as well. There are plenty of areas left for us to increase both our physical density and population density.

Additionally, as discussed in the "What would You Destory" tread, I'd LOVE to see the City of Greenville annex everything from the intersection of Rutherford Street, Shaw Street, and Poinsett Highway all the way to Cherrydale and begin to revitalize this area as well. It's another corridor directly into downtown Greenville from the North. If nothing else, the city needs to work with the County and urge the County to invest some redevelopment effort into this area.

[goodbye]

Great info and interesting points, RT! Thanks for the heads up. I really have enjoyed Ms. Whitworth's insight over the years here in Greenville. Greenville Magazine used to have an in-depth article every year all about economic development in and around The City from her perspective.

With that last paragraph in mind, I'd like to add that we need to have better access into downtown from the northern parts of the County. That area (Travelers Rest to Tigerville and beyond) is on the verge of a major commercial and residential building boom and in my opinion, it is far too difficult to traverse through the traffic (much of which are trucks) to reach downtown.

I'd also like to add that several weeks ago, there was a delegation from the city of Ashland, Kentucky here for the same purpose as these others. They want to emulate what they've seen here back in their own downtown. I've visited there a few years ago, and they already have a very nice large park within the downtown area. Every time I hear about these groups from other cities visiting Greenville (and they're not only from the U.S.), they only have tremendously positive words to speak.

[Eastside]

Thank you for the article RT. Was anyone else taken aback by this part of the article?

Not everything has gone perfectly downtown, of course. For example, more office development has been announced recently than can possibly be filled, and too many office properties are fighting for tenants already in the market instead of signing up tenants new to the market, Whitworth confirmed.

It sounds like the city believes that the office market isn't there for all of these projects. I know many of these projects are for mixed use, but if the office market isn't there and supply is beginning to out strip demand we may see some of these announced projects scaled down or cancelled outright. I certainly hope not. I have been very excited about the progress of downtown Greenville, but if city leaders are having doubts you have to wonder if some of the developers might also be having second thoughts. I don't mean to be gloom and doom, but that quote really jumped out at me.

Also, I hate to bring bad news, but the second Fresh Market has been cancelled again. I talked with my friend who works for the company and he told me that FM put in a request to be zoned on a specific piece of land and was denied by the board, apparently by one vote. The inability to have the land that they wanted for the store, and the fact that their competition was clearly going to open in the area before FM could led the powers that be to drop (for now) their plans to open a second store. Sorry that I got everyones hopes up a few weeks ago, especially you Transplant. Looks like we'll have to wait for that second FM.

[NYTransplant]

Thank you for the article RT. Was anyone else taken aback by this part of the article? 

It sounds like the city believes that the office market isn't there for all of these projects. I know many of these projects are for mixed use, but if the office market isn't there and supply is beginning to out strip demand we may see some of these announced projects scaled down or cancelled outright. I certainly hope not. I have been very excited about the progress of downtown Greenville, but if city leaders are having doubts you have to wonder if some of the developers might also be having second thoughts. I don't mean to be gloom and doom, but that quote really jumped out at me.

Also, I hate to bring bad news, but the second Fresh Market has been cancelled again. I talked with my friend who works for the company and he told me that FM put in a request to be zoned on a specific piece of land and was denied by the board, apparently by one vote. The inability to have the land that they wanted for the store, and the fact that their competition was clearly going to open in the area before FM could led the powers that be to drop (for now) their plans to open a second store. Sorry that I got everyones hopes up a few weeks ago, especially you Transplant. Looks like we'll have to wait for that second FM. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was taken aback by that comment in the News as well. It made me wonder why we are seeing so many parallel developments if the market for office space is weak.

As far as Fresh Market goes:

[gs3]

I thought Greenville's office vacancy rate was on the low end of the scale. Does anybody know the percent of vacancy in downtown?

[RestedTraveler]

Also, I hate to bring bad news, but the second Fresh Market has been cancelled again. I talked with my friend who works for the company and he told me that FM put in a request to be zoned on a specific piece of land and was denied by the board, apparently by one vote. The inability to have the land that they wanted for the store, and the fact that their competition was clearly going to open in the area before FM could led the powers that be to drop (for now) their plans to open a second store. Sorry that I got everyones hopes up a few weeks ago, especially you Transplant. Looks like we'll have to wait for that second FM. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure we'd love to have a Fresh Market up here in the Northern End of the county. Winn Dixie will be closing soon. That will leave only Bi-Lo (in T.R.) and Ingles (near Marietta) with Wal-Mart opening in T.R. this winter.

[GvilleSC]

I remember hearing a long while back about a sporting place thing that was going to locate in Greenville. Columbia already has one and they wanted to expand up here. It was going to be even bigger and better than Columbia's apparently... but what is goin on with that? Anyone know? and does anyone know where it's going?

[NYTransplant]

I remember hearing a long while back about a sporting place thing that was going to locate in Greenville. Columbia already has one and they wanted to expand up here. It was going to be even bigger and better than Columbia's apparently... but what is goin on with that? Anyone know? and does anyone know where it's going?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've heard that Sportsplex has 6 locations they are evaluating at the moment.

[goodbye]

I remember hearing a long while back about a sporting place thing that was going to locate in Greenville. Columbia already has one and they wanted to expand up here. It was going to be even bigger and better than Columbia's apparently... but what is goin on with that? Anyone know? and does anyone know where it's going?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is called The Plex. I believe it is going in along I-85 on the road that runs in front of Harley Davidson. There is a pretty large piece of land that was available and is no longer up for sale. Just a guess, but don't think they've backed out on us!

[EDPro]

I thought Greenville's office vacancy rate was on the low end of the scale.  Does anybody know the percent of vacancy in downtown?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vacancy Rate is in the 12-14% rage for the CBD. That's a relatively healthy rate and has very slowly declined from a high of about 20% in 1995 (while overall Class A space has increased by roughly 40%).

I believe the concern is that most of the absorption of new office space has been tenants moving from Class B up to Class A space, or Class A to less expensive Class A space. A lot of shuffling around and very little "new" office tenants moving to downtown or exisitng companies growing into new space downtown.

In addition, office rental rates downtown have historically been and remain to be inexpensive ($18 sf, the same as they were in 1999). This is good for the tenants, but not the developers. Greenville developers have always built downtown for margins that most developers in other cities would not be interested in.

So, if we have multiple 14-20 story buildings being constructed, this sends a very inaccurate message to developers that our downtown office market is booming when it is actually quite healthy, but not fully robust.

And I'll just throw out there that I personally believe that a 14 or 20 story tower downtown would not really fit the wonderful scale of downtown. I believe one of the greatest attributes of downtown is the 'feel' of livability. In this I mean, Main Street (and the side streets) are outdoor rooms with the facades of buildings as their walls and there are no towers that interrupt that scale. The Daniel building is the tallest building downtown (right?) and it pretty much demarcates the end of the 'walkable/vibrant' area of Main Street. When Mr. Daniel built that building it was an incredible gift to Greenville when very little was going on downtown, but now that it is the showpiece of a metro of 1,000,000, the city and developers should consider the impact of towers on downtown and not just build up to 20 stories tall b/c they can.

(Sorry, will hop off my tee-tiny soapbox, really enjoy this discussion board)

[NYTransplant]

It is called The Plex.  I believe it is going in along I-85 on the road that runs in front of Harley Davidson.  There is a pretty large piece of land that was available and is no longer up for sale.  Just a guess, but don't think they've backed out on us!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure they have settled on a location yet, so I don't think the land on Chrome Drive is theirs (unless it sold this week), but I do know that they have not backed out on us.

[JCT]

And I'll just throw out there that I personally believe that a 14 or 20 story tower downtown would not really fit the wonderful scale of downtown.  I believe one of the greatest attributes of downtown is the 'feel' of livability.  In this I mean, Main Street (and the side streets) are outdoor rooms with the facades of buildings as their walls and there are no towers that interrupt that scale.  The Daniel building is the tallest building downtown (right?) and it pretty much demarcates the end of the 'walkable/vibrant' area of Main Street.  When Mr. Daniel built that building it was an incredible gift to Greenville when very little was going on downtown, but now that it is the showpiece of a metro of 1,000,000, the city and developers should consider the impact of towers on downtown and not just build up to 20 stories tall b/c they can.

(Sorry, will hop off my tee-tiny soapbox, really enjoy this discussion board)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree 100% with this statement. Greenville is very vibrant town on the street level where life happens. Individual buildings are just parts of the whole that make up great public spaces, and we have some great low-rise buildings currently in development. My favorite cities throughout the world all have a high density, yet low-rise, core that facilitates interaction between citizens in the public spaces between buildings. Since this topic was discussed for a short time on the high-rise thread, I will refrain from repeating ideas that I have already posted. I will say again that I don't believe Greenville needs very tall buildings to accommodate its future growth.

[Greenville]

If demand for living and conducting business downtown continues to increase, we will have no choice but to build taller buildings. Real estate is becoming harder and harder to obtain, and people are realizing the value of being in the CBD. So taller buildings downtown are probably going to be a reality, and sooner rather than later if the current building boom continues.

Besides, I like the idea of more density and a "taller" downtown. Tall buildings and a respectable skyline give a city character, not to mention credibility. Even if one doesn't like skylines or find them attractive, I am a little unclear as to how a more vertical city detracts from the livability of that city. If the highrises are incorporated correctly in terms of architecture, how does quality of life suffer?!? When you're walking down the street, you only see the bottom 2 or 3 stories on buildings unless you make it a point to look up. That is especially true along Main Street, where trees line the road.

I can't imagine that people would stop wanting to visit downtown because of tall buildings being added. If downtown Greenville loses it's charm and appeal because of that, then I would say that the foundation was shaky to begin with.

[GvilleSC]

If demand for living and conducting business downtown continues to increase, we will have no choice but to build taller buildings.  Real estate is becoming harder and harder to obtain, and people are realizing the value of being in the CBD.  So taller buildings downtown are probably going to be a reality, and sooner rather than later if the current building boom continues.

Besides, I like the idea of more density and a "taller" downtown.  Tall buildings and a respectable skyline give a city character, not to mention credibility.  Even if one doesn't like skylines or find them attractive, I am a little unclear as to how a more vertical city detracts from the livability of that city.  If the highrises are incorporated correctly in terms of architecture, how does quality of life suffer?!?  When you're walking down the street, you only see the bottom 2 or 3 stories on buildings unless you make it a point to look up.  That is especially true along Main Street, where trees line the road.

I can't imagine that people would stop wanting to visit downtown because of tall buildings being added.  If downtown Greenville loses it's charm and appeal because of that, then I would say that the foundation was shaky to begin with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said!

[greenvilleguy]

I think to say the Daniel Building "pretty much demarcates the end of the 'walkable/vibrant' area of Main Street" is only fair if you list the reason. It's not that the building is tall, short, fat, thin, or otherwise. It may have something to do with the fact that you would have to cross over the busy 3-4 lanes of I-385 to get to it. And where are you going to go when you get there, Bi-Lo? There is no reason to go to that side of North Main Street. There are no shops or restaurants, only some kind of retirement home and a Holiday Inn.