SouthPark Mall

[turbocraig]

1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

remind me where the existing St John store is in the mall? 

Across from Burberry and LV.   

[KJHburg]

1 minute ago, turbocraig said:

Across from Burberry and LV.   

so in the luxury wing I do remember where it was now on a corner.   I think that should do good there and around those stores Tiffany, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom etc. 

[CLT2014]

Gucci's coming! Even Austin doesn't have a Gucci. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by CLT2014

[Temeteron]

12 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Gucci's coming! Even Austin doesn't have a Gucci. 

They might be on the map soon too.  Charleston has had a Gucci since the 90’s.  I guess due to so much tourism.  Its crazy I remember back when Charleston had better shopping than Charlotte!  So bizarre 

[CLT2014]

13 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

They might be on the map soon too.  Charleston has had a Gucci since the 90’s.  I guess due to so much tourism.  Its crazy I remember back when Charleston had better shopping than Charlotte!  So bizarre 

Tourism is a different beast. Charleston attracts many wealthy tourists from across the country coming to see the sights, have a romantic weekend, golf, stay at the beach, et...

Aspen, Colorado only has 7,600 people... but due to tourism of the rich and famous it has stores like Prada, Gucci, and Dior. None of those stores are present in the Denver metro area though.

Places like Aspen, Charleston, et... are going to punch way above their weight compared to mid-size cities on the amount of luxury shopping since their market isn't just the local population, but all the visitors pulled from everywhere. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by CLT2014

[Temeteron]

Also, forgot to mention, the Mac “at Belk” (which actually wasn’t in Belk) closed.  Thought they were doing great

[TheOneRJ]

I’ll wait for an official announcement, but it’s long overdue. 

[Rufus]

Looks like Stuart Weitzman has closed, per the Southpark webpage. Stuart Weitzman says there is still a store at SP, but I wonder if they haven't updated. It'll be interesting to see what fills its space. 

[Temeteron]

13 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Looks like Stuart Weitzman has closed, per the Southpark webpage. Stuart Weitzman says there is still a store at SP, but I wonder if they haven't updated. It'll be interesting to see what fills its space. 

They actually closed a few weeks before Christmas.  I was shocked as I thought they would stay at least until after Christmas.  

[gman430]

Something that has always bothered me. Why does Charlotte not have a Saks Fifth Avenue but freaking Birmingham, Alabama does? 

[CriticalT]

Have you no patience?  

[TheOneRJ]

25 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Something that has always bothered me. Why does Charlotte not have a Saks Fifth Avenue but freaking Birmingham, Alabama does? 

Saks had plans to open alongside Nordstrom in the early 2000s expansion at SouthPark, but pulled out and decided to go to the long abandoned Gleneagles project down the street (hence the above post). That project never opened and Neiman Marcus took the last available anchor pad at SouthPark. 
 

For what it’s worth, there are no Neiman Marcus stores located anywhere in the state of Alabama. 

[Temeteron]

There is however an Off Saks in Charlotte (the outlet version) @gman430

The Birmingham location I promise you probably doesn’t have a big selection.  It’s not about the brand it’s about the demand and the size and/or income level of the city.  Have you been to the Macy‘s in NY or Atlanta? Now go to the Macy’s at South Park and Northlake.  Completely different selections!  

[formerly commoner]

10 hours ago, gman430 said:

Something that has always bothered me. Why does Charlotte not have a Saks Fifth Avenue but freaking Birmingham, Alabama does? 

It's because in the late-1990s, Birmingham-based Parisian (which was itself acquired by Belk in 2005) acquired Saks, when Saks was in disarray (once before).  The Parisian leadership put a Saks at a new, exurban development, almost as a vanity asset, or a trophy from 5th Ave. itself.  I used to shop there.  The selection was small, the store was immaculate (almost untouched), but I think over the last few years a couple of things have happened to stabilize it.  First, the suburban, service economy in BHM isn't bad, and I think the 12-year recovery has helped the households grow into the merchandise.  Secondly, after Belk acquired Parisian, the "fit and finish" and merchandising of the Parisians-come-Belk stores (much like the Belk stores, here) has declined precipitously.  

 

Edit:  Parisian predictably choked on the Saks acquisition, divested the chain a decade later, and ultimately succumbed in the form of the Belk takeover.

Edited February 28, 2020 by formerly commoner

[videtur quam contuor]

Nice entry post FC. Welcome to the fray.

[Rufus]

Not to derail this too much, but I would not even hold your breath for Saks to locate here anytime soon. It's probably the least healthy of the major luxury chains left. For reference, Saks only has two locations in Texas (San Antonio and Houston). When they closed their Dallas location it was said because they wanted to focus on their most profitable locations (Houston does amazingly well). The reality is that Neiman Marcus was eating them alive because NM is a Dallas company. Saks also has some pretty weird locations that really show that its height as a department store was the late 80s-early 00s. There are locations in Tulsa, Columbus (not at the main retail center but a indoor mall), Beachwood (Cleveland metro), metro Philly (an old location that has remained profitable despite not being near King of Prussia) and other suburban locations. 

In the last 10 years, Saks has shut down stores in Denver, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Orange County, metro Chicago, and Portland.  

[CLT2014]

18 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Not to derail this too much, but I would not even hold your breath for Saks to locate here anytime soon. It's probably the least healthy of the major luxury chains left. For reference, Saks only has two locations in Texas (San Antonio and Houston). When they closed their Dallas location it was said because they wanted to focus on their most profitable locations (Houston does amazingly well). The reality is that Neiman Marcus was eating them alive because NM is a Dallas company. Saks also has some pretty weird locations that really show that its height as a department store was the late 80s-early 00s. There are locations in Tulsa, Columbus (not at the main retail center but a indoor mall), Beachwood (Cleveland metro), metro Philly (an old location that has remained profitable despite not being near King of Prussia) and other suburban locations. 

In the last 10 years, Saks has shut down stores in Denver, Pittsburgh, Dallas, Orange County, metro Chicago, and Portland.  

Yeah.... their store in Raleigh is constantly trying to clear inventory and is pretty empty of people. Wouldn't be surprised to see it go. Sad to see a once great department store so mismanaged nationwide. Sales stuff everywhere thrown around like a Macy's or TJMaxx. 

Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom at South Park never looks like these photos from the Raleigh Saks below. Certainly doesn't feel like a place where you wanna go drop $1,200 on a coat. Heck even Belk doesn't usually have stuff tossed around this bad and aisle blocked with junk.

Edited February 28, 2020 by CLT2014

[Rufus]

50 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Yeah.... their store in Raleigh is constantly trying to clear inventory and is pretty empty of people. Wouldn't be surprised to see it go. Sad to see a once great department store so mismanaged nationwide. Sales stuff everywhere thrown around like a Macy's or TJMaxx. 

Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom at South Park never looks like these photos from the Raleigh Saks below. Certainly doesn't feel like a place where you wanna go drop $1,200 on a coat. Heck even Belk doesn't usually have stuff tossed around this bad and aisle blocked with junk.

 

TBH the Raleigh store got a crap deal. They located where the mall thought growth and wealth would begin to concentrate in the city, but unfortunately it has not. They don't pay rent at the mall, and I believe their lease is up in a couple years. There had been talks of them relocating to the more profitable centers in the city, but who knows. Nordstrom only has a location in Durham, so there is talk that they might go to Raleigh too. 

The Saks in Raleigh used to be much nicer, and it still carries some high quality clothing, but the company as a whole was run into the ground. I believe the 5th Ave location accounts for more than 1/5 of the overall sales for the company.

[TheOneRJ]

1 hour ago, Rufus said:

TBH the Raleigh store got a crap deal. They located where the mall thought growth and wealth would begin to concentrate in the city, but unfortunately it has not. They don't pay rent at the mall, and I believe their lease is up in a couple years. There had been talks of them relocating to the more profitable centers in the city, but who knows. Nordstrom only has a location in Durham, so there is talk that they might go to Raleigh too. 

The Saks in Raleigh used to be much nicer, and it still carries some high quality clothing, but the company as a whole was run into the ground. I believe the 5th Ave location accounts for more than 1/5 of the overall sales for the company.

Highly unlikely Nordstrom would open a second location in the Triangle before a second location in Charlotte. Durham’s Streets at Southpoint is the area’s most affluent mall. 

[Rufus]

18 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

Highly unlikely Nordstrom would open a second location in the Triangle before a second location in Charlotte. Durham’s Streets at Southpoint is the area’s most affluent mall. 

Not to get too off-topic, but Southpoint is tied with Crabtree. And truly, there's a clear desire to stick with the mall of your respective city. I grew up in Raleigh, and most of the people I know would never go to Southpoint because it's too far away, and vice versa with friends in Durham with Crabtree. I think the health of the malls in the Triangle is better overall than Charlotte, but Charlotte has the nicest mall in the state. But that's just my opinion and not based in a scientific fact. 

[TheOneRJ]

1 hour ago, Rufus said:

Not to get too off-topic, but Southpoint is tied with Crabtree. And truly, there's a clear desire to stick with the mall of your respective city. I grew up in Raleigh, and most of the people I know would never go to Southpoint because it's too far away, and vice versa with friends in Durham with Crabtree. I think the health of the malls in the Triangle is better overall than Charlotte, but Charlotte has the nicest mall in the state. But that's just my opinion and not based in a scientific fact. 

Southpoint has more upscale stores than Crabtree, therefore the more affluent mall. I also think Charlotte has more “healthy” malls - SouthPark, Northlake, and Concord Mills vs Crabtree and Southpoint. Triangle Town Center and Carolina Place are just there. 

[KJHburg]

Streets at Southpoint is the most upscale and really only mall in the Durham Chapel Hill market  and Crabtree is the market dominate mall in Raleigh Wake County.  I agree that people don't go back and forth between Raleigh to shop in Durham and vice versa.  Triangle Town Center is not doing as well as Carolina Place Mall if you ask me.  Last visit there a couple of years ago TTC had lots of vacancies and my friends in NW Raleigh who works in RTP only goes to Crabtree or North Hills which is a huge draw.  Their family does not go to TTC.    

SouthPark is by FAR the best mall in the Carolinas and really the best mall between Atlanta and Northern VA aka Tysons.  Concord Mills would be the next 2nd best not because it is so upscale but the sales numbers per square foot are strong. 

Actually NC has gotten rid of so many malls more than many other states who remember these Carolina Circle in Greensboro gone, South Square Mall Durham gone, North Hills mall in Raleigh totally renovated and roof removed,  Cary Town Center is next up to be redeveloped  Eastland of course here gone,  but at the same time massive population growth and lots of new outdoor based lifestyle centers like North Hills in Raleigh and upcoming is the next  Fenton in Cary which is fantastic.  

 

[NCMike1990]

^ Don't forget Oak Hollow Mall also gone, closed in 2017. It had a short life. I remember going with my dad to the movies there a lot when I was a kid.

[SydneyCarton]

I know that I'm in the minority, but I would love to see SouthPark razed and redeveloped as a smaller, higher-end, outdoor, walkable retail venue like the Streets of Buckhead (or whatever it's called now).  That place is gorgeous, and it's apropos for the Twenty-First Century.   

The SouthPark Mall is dated, and all of those parking lots and garages are a waste of space in a very prime location.  I'd love to see several very high-end condo towers and townhomes, and a very fancy hotel (e.g., a Peninsula), together with restaurants, art galleries, public plazas, and parks, and better integration for Symphony Park.   Perhaps even some very high-end office space aimed at hedge funds, etc. would be appropriate.   With respect to retail per se, fifty high-end stores (e.g., Tiffany, Tourneau, Burberry, Thomas Pink, Jimmy Choo, Versace, Gucci, Cartier, etc.) and a much smaller Saks or Nordstrom would be great.  An arthouse cinema like Angelika in NY would be fantastic as well.

The SouthPark Mall is successful because there are many wealthy people in Charlotte who fuel the demand, and the mall is their only option for supply.   That prime site screams 1970s, and it warrants more.  Charlotte is much richer than it was when the mall was built and even when it was expanded.  One only need drive through Red Fox Trail, Foxcraft Rd., etc. and note all of the modest ranches being razed and replaced with $2.5M, 6,000 s.f. palaces to appreciate the massive influx of wealth.

SouthPark  could be and should be  the ultimate luxury retail venue of the Southeast.  But for Streets of Buckhead, Atlanta's shopping scene is lame although it offers very high-end brands.  

Edited March 2, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[kickazzz2000]

On 3/1/2020 at 4:49 PM, SydneyCarton said:

I know that I'm in the minority, but I would love to see SouthPark razed and redeveloped as a smaller, higher-end, outdoor, walkable retail venue like the Streets of Buckhead (or whatever it's called now).  That place is gorgeous, and it's apropos for the Twenty-First Century.   

The SouthPark Mall is dated, and all of those parking lots and garages are a waste of space in a very prime location.  I'd love to see several very high-end condo towers and townhomes, and a very fancy hotel (e.g., a Peninsula), together with restaurants, art galleries, public plazas, and parks, and better integration for Symphony Park.   Perhaps even some very high-end office space aimed at hedge funds, etc. would be appropriate.   With respect to retail per se, fifty high-end stores (e.g., Tiffany, Tourneau, Burberry, Thomas Pink, Jimmy Choo, Versace, Gucci, Cartier, etc.) and a much smaller Saks or Nordstrom would be great.  An arthouse cinema like Angelika in NY would be fantastic as well.

The SouthPark Mall is successful because there are many wealthy people in Charlotte who fuel the demand, and the mall is their only option for supply.   That prime site screams 1970s, and it warrants more.  Charlotte is much richer than it was when the mall was built and even when it was expanded.  One only need drive through Red Fox Trail, Foxcraft Rd., etc. and note all of the modest ranches being razed and replaced with $2.5M, 6,000 s.f. palaces to appreciate the massive influx of wealth.

SouthPark  could be and should be  the ultimate luxury retail venue of the Southeast.  But for Streets of Buckhead, Atlanta's shopping scene is lame although it offers very high-end brands.  

It's now called BUCKHEAD ATLANTA, which is quite creative.