Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Looking at the old Metroplan for these buildings, they were suppose to be two

29 story and 362 ft tall with 469,969 sq ft. (combined).

So if were talking about 1 single 30 story building with 450,000 sq ft to 500,00 sq ft. This either might be a new tallest or very well close to it. SunTrust Orlando is 441 ft with 654,678 sq ft of space. and only 35 stories.

World Trade Building(s)

Old World Trade Center - Two 29 story 362 ft tall 469,969 Sq ft.buildings.

New World Trade Center - 30 stories (height unknown) 450,000 - 500,000 sq ft.building.

Comparable Buildings

SunTrust Orlando - 35 Stories 441 ft. 654,678 sq ft

Park Tower Tampa - 36 Stories 460 ft.

Rivergate Tower Tampa - 31 Stories 454 ft. 515,965 sq ft

110 Tower Ft. Lauderdale - 30 Stories 410 ft. <------ My guess!

Sabadell Financial Center Miami - 31 Stories 430 ft.

Courthouse Center Miami - 30 Stories 405 ft.

I looked throw a cycle of buildings in Florida and this one gives me an idea of the height we can expect with the new World Trade Center. Again nobody knows how they are going to build it. Whether it be slim or wide we can expect to see between 375ft to 430 ft. (My honest guess)

I could be wrong though.

Edited June 16, 2012 by ThatFloridaDudeJ

[Tim3167]

The hurdle with any discussion of a new tallest remains FAA approval. The very few times there have been real proposals approaching Suntrust height the FAA has refused to approve beyond 441'.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

^^^ you think they would allow it? I think the further away you get from OE, as far as alignment, the more height space your allowed right?

[spenser1058]

Here's a project I would really like to see have, um, "legs." It probably is no-go during the remainder of Gov. Voldemort's Reign of Terror, but this would be helpful in so many ways: recreation, health, tourism, even commuting.

Bicycle lovers push for 250-mile loop linking Central Florida trails

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-16/news/os-central-florida-trails-loop-20120618_1_spring-to-spring-seminole-wekiva-trails-foundation

[IAmFloridaBorn]

You can't copy and paste full length articles, especially ones that come from pay sites (i.e. OBJ). Instead, please provide a link to the article and/or summarize/paraphrase.

-bic

[spenser1058]

I don't want to be the Negative Nelly on this, and I agree totally with praha that this site screams for development. I, do, however, like to look at the track record of any group that takes on something as complex as a Class A tower.

Some things to keep in mind:

The principal, Byron Sutton, seems to be most notable for his carrer in the military, not what he's done since.

The organization is not a developer, just a non-profit "trade association"

If you go to their website, there is precious little information about exactly what they do and the info on the proposed building still shows the Ivanhoe site.

These folks have been singing this song since, um, 1990, and not a shovelful of dirt turned yet. Also, it's fascinating that during all these years, other than periodic announcements about a new tower, we hear virtually nothing about these folks in the local community. I ask myself, why is that? Also, the Diocese's silence is interesting. If I recall correctly, they were somewhat more forthcoming on the post office project. Given this will have quite an effect on parking for the Cathedral, if this is so close to moving ahead, I'd expect soothing words for the parishioners (as a longtime member of a downtown church, I know there is nothing more scary than little old church ladies worried about where they'll park for Sunday services).

Given that less than half of all projects announced ever see the light of day, I'm voting "NO GO" on this one. If I'm wrong, I have my Panama hat ready for marinating for a meal. Meanwhile, I think other projects are much more likely.

Edited June 17, 2012 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

I don't want to be the Negative Nelly on this, and I agree totally with praha that this site screams for development. I, do, however, like to look at the track record of any group that takes on something as complex as a Class A tower.

Some things to keep in mind:

The principal, Byron Sutton, seems to be most notable for his carrer in the military, not what he's done since.

The organization is not a developer, just a non-profit "trade association"

If you go to their website, there is precious little information about exactly what they do and the info on the proposed building still shows the Ivanhoe site.

These folks have been singing this song since, um, 1990, and not a shovelful of dirt turned yet. Also, it's fascinating that during all these years, other than periodic announcements about a new tower, we hear virtually nothing about these folks in the local community. I ask myself, why is that? Also, the Diocese's silence is interesting. If I recall correctly, they were somewhat more forthcoming on the post office project. Given this will have quite an effect on parking for the Cathedral, if this is so close to moving ahead, I'd expect soothing words for the parishioners (as a longtime member of a downtown church, I know there is nothing more scary than little old church ladies worried about where they'll park for Sunday services).

Given that less than half of all projects announced ever see the light of day, I'm voting "NO GO" on this one. If I'm wrong, I have my Panama hat ready for marinating for a meal. Meanwhile, I think other projects are much more likely.

You do have a point but look at the Dynetech Centre. They were able to partner with a reputable developer to build a mixed use tower although no one clearly understood what type of business Dynetech was in. Granted they're no longer around but you can't take away the fact that they left behind a sweet building.

[spenser1058]

You do have a point but look at the Dynetech Centre. They were able to partner with a reputable developer to build a mixed use tower although no one clearly understood what type of business Dynetech was in. Granted they're no longer around but you can't take away the fact that they left behind a sweet building.

Absolutely, I agree with you. The thing is, the developer should be announcing this as was the case with Dynetech. This reminds me more of God's Skyscraper up in Altamonte and at least we know where what cash flow they had was coming from (the souls in the telegenic pews), even if we're still waiting for full funding to fall from Heaven. When someone with a track record like Lincoln Property steps up (the folks that got Dynetech done), then I'll join the Amen chorus here.

[JFW657]

Maybe if this project gets built, it will provide the needed incentive for the owners of the building on the SW corner of the intersection to do something about this mess....

A nice sidewalk rescaping would be in order as well.

Edited June 17, 2012 by JFW657

[spenser1058]

Maybe if this project gets built, it will provide the needed incentive for the owners of the building on the SW corner of the intersection to do something about this mess....

A nice sidewalk rescaping would be in order as well.

So true! I was really surprised when they redid the tower that they left the "bomb shelter" at the corner pretty much as it was (I think they did add some narrow slits for windows). The drive-in tellers behind the building are also an eyesore.

[gibby]

Maybe if this project gets built, it will provide the needed incentive for the owners of the building on the SW corner of the intersection to do something about this mess....

A nice sidewalk rescaping would be in order as well.

This was the first thing that I thought about when I heard about this WT project.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Useful stuff. See I wasnt around 20 years ago. Well I was only 1. So this is new to me.

[spenser1058]

Useful stuff. See I wasnt around 20 years ago. Well I was only 1. So this is new to me.

Don't worry, Dude - the great thing about being 21 is your enthusiasm - it's done wonders for the boards. On the other hand, old fogies like me can point out roadblocks that you can work around. It's the best possible combination.

There are many factors as to why I don't believe downtown will go significantly vertical for many, many years.

Why not? In my opinion, there are a few major things missing right now that would cause us to go for significant vertical:

(1) We don't have anyone locally itching to build a trophy building downtown. We basically had two Fortune 500 companies: Darden and Hughes Supply. Darden chose to build a new suburban campus and the Hughes family sold Hughes Supply to Home Depot (which turned around and spun it off). The resulting company, HD Supply, still has a presence in Parramore but the corporate HQ is in Atlanta now.

(2) Downtown has too much relatively cheap space available. There is nothing preventing anyone from going to midtown or even Parramore based on current politics. If land cost isn't prohibitive and you don't have natural barriers (think most northeastern cities or, for that matter, even Miami and Tampa - Miami is hemmed in by water on the east and the Everglades on the west; Tampa is hemmed in by water and a much larger highway footprint than we are. Ironically, as we do everything possible to reduce the "psychic barrier" of crossing under I4, we're probably making tall buildings less likely. Mayor Bill was able to restrict height around Eola because of a critical mass of neighborhood activists - those mostly don't exist in midtown and Parramore (in fact, much of Parramore's powers that be have been involved in development schemes).

(3) No one in government is currently itching to build new space for government. Both City Hall and the Orange County Courthouse were planned with ample space for growth. Orange County Government could stand to consolidate with a new building, but does anyone see Teresa Jacobs believing a tall new tower fits her "brand?" As she said at the State of the County last week, "We're cheap and proud of it!"

There are more that I've noted before, so I won't belabor the point. The neat part is that, like Old Paris or DuPont Circle in DC, we have a great low-rise downtown that people are attracted to. I believe that we keep investing in the infrastructure like transportation, RETAIL!, education and the arts, and height will be welcome when it eventually occurs.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Don't worry, Dude - the great thing about being 21 is your enthusiasm - it's done wonders for the boards. On the other hand, old fogies like me can point out roadblocks that you can work around. It's the best possible combination.

There are many factors as to why I don't believe downtown will go significantly vertical for many, many years.

Why not? In my opinion, there are a few major things missing right now that would cause us to go for significant vertical:

(1) We don't have anyone locally itching to build a trophy building downtown. We basically had two Fortune 500 companies: Darden and Hughes Supply. Darden chose to build a new suburban campus and the Hughes family sold Hughes Supply to Home Depot (which turned around and spun it off). The resulting company, HD Supply, still has a presence in Parramore but the corporate HQ is in Atlanta now.

(2) Downtown has too much relatively cheap space available. There is nothing preventing anyone from going to midtown or even Parramore based on current politics. If land cost isn't prohibitive and you don't have natural barriers (think most northeastern cities or, for that matter, even Miami and Tampa - Miami is hemmed in by water on the east and the Everglades on the west; Tampa is hemmed in by water and a much larger highway footprint than we are. Ironically, as we do everything possible to reduce the "psychic barrier" of crossing under I4, we're probably making tall buildings less likely. Mayor Bill was able to restrict height around Eola because of a critical mass of neighborhood activists - those mostly don't exist in midtown and Parramore (in fact, much of Parramore's powers that be have been involved in development schemes).

(3) No one in government is currently itching to build new space for government. Both City Hall and the Orange County Courthouse were planned with ample space for growth. Orange County Government could stand to consolidate with a new building, but does anyone see Teresa Jacobs believing a tall new tower fits her "brand?" As she said at the State of the County last week, "We're cheap and proud of it!"

There are more that I've noted before, so I won't belabor the point. The neat part is that, like Old Paris or DuPont Circle in DC, we have a great low-rise downtown that people are attracted to. I believe that we keep investing in the infrastructure like transportation, RETAIL!, education and the arts, and height will be welcome when it eventually occurs.

Thanks man. truth is I've been browsing these forums before I was allowed to sign up. Watching City Council meetings, and everything.

I understand all of your points. I always loved downtown Orlando, but always wondered why it staggered. As I've become more interested in research I've learned why HIGH Rises come and go in waves seems like.

I'll make a bold point and say I think the Market is right, only for a well put plan though. As far as business towers. Not everybody wants low-mid rise space, for the sake of trying to have as many people on one property as possible for expansions and what not and now some companies require certain technologies you can implement in old buildings. But people look for cheap ways, thing is our leaders do nothing to try and improve this.

The county could use a new building similar to the courthouse to eliminate the sub-locations taking up precious space and that nasty county building downtown near Lake Eola.

I guess for me I'm all about utilizing space. That was my entire complaint about Steel House taking up that entire parcel instead of being vertical.

Heres my take on what I think might happen with downtown or just other events.

HIGHLY LIKELY: FEC RAIL, OBX, Sky House, Rida, Lymmo Expansions, DPAC, SunRail

LIKELY: Magic Mixed-Use Complex, World Trade Center

UNLIKELY: Creative Village

I have to agree with your post. Looking at Rida and the low development there. So I see what you mean.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I didnt copy and paste an article. I typed word for word what I read. I don't have the pay subscription but I do get to read the pay articles for free in my phone via mobile version so to the moderator who deleted my post, yeah. smh.

Since they did that I'll basically re-sum up what the thing was for posters who didn't see it.

The guy for Orlando World Trade basically says he has tenants in place. The height is unknown and they are purchasing that lot from Diorce Of Orlando (probably spelled wrong). They will go before the city council next month to get approval on the project.

Also, Sky House Orlando is supposed to be voted by the city council today expecting approval.

[Pete C]

Are there any updates about Clean the World's new 10-story headqurters in Parramore that was announced in January?

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/print-edition/2011/12/30/clean-the-world-plans-12m-10-story.html

[jack]

There is too much excess space for the next five years to demand a new building. Unless you have a single tenant that wants a trophy building, it is not going to happen.

[JFW657]

Are there any updates about Clean the World's new 10-story headqurters in Parramore that was announced in January?

http://www.bizjourna...m-10-story.html

I've been looking, but nothing yet.

I'm guessing maybe Baker Barrios might be the architiect because they are known for doing pro-bono work for charitable organizations like CTW.

Orlando architects build goodwill with tireless charity work

....at the groundbreaking ceremony for Second Harvest Food Bank's new distribution center this week, the co-founder of the architectural firm donating its design for the 100,000-square-foot project stood anonymously in the back, confessing he hoped not to be called to the podium.

"Please don't do the pat-on-the-back stuff," Tim Baker said later. "We really don't do it for the publicity."

As co-founders of the Orlando architectural firm Baker Barrios, Tim Baker and Carlos Barrios have been almost silent partners with the nonprofit community since they went into business in 1993. Yet only in the past year did they even bother to tally their charitable contributions for anyone outside their auditors, and then they did so reluctantly.

At the moment, they're working pro bono on two major community projects: the food bank's new $15 million headquarters and a new 250-bed men's facility at Orlando's Coalition for the Homeless. Together, the projects represent about $400,000 worth of work.

And that doesn't include the work Baker Barrios does pro bono for local churches or the donations the company makes from the firm's coffers or the private bank accounts of its founders.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-31/features/os-architects-for-good-20120531_1_architectural-firm-baker-barrios-largest-food-bank

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Anyone know if SkyHouse was approved Monday?

[Jernigan]

It wasn't on the agenda.

On a related note - does anyone know where the DDB agendas and minutes are posted online?

[smileguy]

On a related note - does anyone know where the DDB agendas and minutes are posted online?

I don't know, other than in the consent agenda for the following City Council meeting... The DDB is really inconsistent about when they post things online, including their quarterly reports.

[klstorey]

Church Street Station is listed once again with a local group of agents and tons of new plans are in the works there. I got a tour of the complex and got some insight on the future of this iconic local landmark. I just posted Part 1 of the entry, covering Cheyenne, Club Paris, Bumby Arcade, and the Train depot itself. The new focus will be more on larger, recognizable brands. The new tenants will be less nightclub focused and instead will be open for lunch and dinner with late nights shifting to more of the club/lounge scene. This means that the area will be more active during the day. Also the tarp over the road is put on hold for now and the 'From Motown to Otown' show has been canned.

The best thing is that this new team is excited about the buildings themselves meaning that the buildings are part of the selling point itself. This will hopefully translate into businesses, like Ceviche, that celebrate the architecture instead of hiding it (like Club Paris and Bliss tried to do).

Picture This: Inside Church Street Station (Part 1 of 2-The Southern Block)

Tomorrow I'll cover the north block including an inside look into the now closed Bliss space and the Exchange. And I'll share some more of what I learned about new retail moving coming to the complex.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

It wasn't on the agenda.

On a related note - does anyone know where the DDB agendas and minutes are posted online?

Damn I'd like to know the status of this project. It's on the downtown development listings on downtownorlando.com. I guess it was already approved.

[Jernigan]

Sky house went before the ARB yesterday - it will probably be in the next city council meeting now that it has made its rounds.

[Jernigan]

Er - ARB is today

Also on the agenda. A courtesy review (final review will be next month) for 899 N Orange - 6 story / 245 unit apt building with 11500 sf of retail and a 400 spot garage