Downtown Norfolk Progress

[varider]

Thanks for the insight guys.

But I'm going to try and get back on-topic.

Can anyone tell me why there are seven consecutive empty storefronts on Granby starting at 210 Granby Street and going to City Hall Ave? I literally counted seven unoccupied storefronts in a row on Norfolks "main drag."

What needs to change for downtown to explode with retail? Is it the # of residents? density? Please explain..

[Norfolk4Life]

In my opinion, there are a number of reasons that Downtown Norfolk is experiencing tough times.

1. Light Rail Construction - Right now there are ALOT of road closures.
2. Other Construction Projects - Belmont @ Freemason still not 100%. Wachovia still under construction.
3. Not enough residents of mixed income - most downtown residents are on the high-end of the scale. A successful downtown needs a mix of residents. US Development's apartments should dramatically help.
4. Not enough large retailers - Downtown needs a large retailer to act as an 'anchor store'

If we have more resident that live AND work downtown, we will get the large number of stores and shops that we want. Right now the majority of people downtown are commuting suburbanites who, judging by their response to the form-based code VB want, seem to think that it is physically impossible to visit a store without driving there. To give you an example: A lady came up to me for direction at MacArthur Center a few weeks ago. We were standing at the main entrance (Monticello). She asked where she could find a pharmacy. I gave her direction to the MacArthur Pharmacy on Granby (next to Subway) She told me that she didn't want to walk that far. Then she asked which way Nordstroms was, because she parked out by there in the garage. In other words, the <350 foot walk to the pharmacy was too much for her but the 1000 foot walk back to Nordstroms was OK... Keep in mind she had also most likely walked through the mall for her shopping (Around 4000 feet from end to end, adding both floors and the foot court - also assuming she never walked through a store, but rather a straight line through the mall... 4000 feet is around 4/5 of a mile.)

The more people we can get living downtown, the more that will walk. The more people walking around, the more likely a suburbanite will follow suit.

[varider]

You make a good point. The majority of people in HR don't seem to have one urban bone in their body. That walk to MacArthur Pharmacy (not that great a place, by the way, in my opinion) would take at the most two-three minutes. Why are people like that here? It kind of worries me about LR succeedng. In other areas of the country, it's cool to take transit into the "city" to shop, eat,catch a play/concert, etc. I'm not so sure the HR "culture" or "lifestyle" will make it "cool" or "hip" to take transit. But anyway, I hate the fact that the majority of the residents in downtown are of the older, richer, "majority" variety. If you could rent a sizeable apartment for say $750-$800, I think many more people would chooose downtown over other parts of the city. It's prob. the safest section of the city, has the biggest variety of restaurants and stores, movie theaters, grocery store, parks, museums, etc. I don't see why the downtown area can't be a huge, flourishing neighborhood with 10,000+ residents. Do you think that the Rockefeller type developments will bring about an increase in DT pop. and thus an increase in DT retail?

[usermel]

Advice to Va-Rider from a 36 year old who is in the music business. Nothing effects a LIFE more than living. Your still very young. I know that when your under 18 the only thing you can go by is the LIFE you have lived. That said, when young and you visit a Philly or New York and are from VA(Norfolk/Va Beach) it seems BIG and is and more exciting. Along with being behind the scenes in the music biz I ws once a rapper as well and put out 3 CD's and sold millions of records. I visited Utah to Kansas and all cities in between. Seeing the U.S and South America and the Caribean has shapped my mind to see that it isnt truly the size of the city or the night LIFE that makes it. Its YOU(me in this case hahaha)! What do I mean? LIFE is TRULY what you make it. One mans/womans trash is another mans treasure. I been to Paris and those who live there I met(some not all) hate Paris,France!

I been to London,England and Dublin,Ireland and Sweden and on and on and when talking to the locals they all wanted to be other places. If you feel leaving for a BIG city will make you full it will. WHY? The mind controls the body and controls how we feel. I myself on tour went to Philly 6-7 times and found it ok but, thats an opinion and YOURS is what matters most. Also, I found it very cultural with history etc.! Its a good city indeed. I just hope you at a young age see I was once your age and trust me. Theres no substitute for LIFE experience. What you think in your teens will change as LIFE experience changes your view of the world and traveling showed and taught me this. Everyne from a certain place takes for granted were there from. I took here for granted before I moved up North to work with Jodeci(R&B group of the 1990's) and until years later once I finally got my break I couldnt see what was good about here I once thought was bad. No,No my friend Im not trying to sell you on Norfolk/Va Beach,HAHAHAHA! Im just trying to get you to see when youve never seen $1,000,000 as I have it seems like alot of money until you make $10,000,000 and more. My point is its about LIFE experiences and when youve never been to Rome of course its exciting unless your from ROME!!!!

Much Love Fellow Member,

And I hope you enjoy Philly or New York or D.C or were you decide to move as an adult

Usermel

[varider]

I think the main thing is people like things they aren't used too. I know A LOT of people from NYC that move to Norfolk and Virginia Beach because it's too hectic up north. Me, being from the medium sized city like Hampton Roads, am attracted to the big, hectic Northeastern cities. But I also love HR. Anyway, may I ask what your rap name is?

[usermel]

VaRider I agree with your take on the prices downtown. If the prices for good apartments were more affordable it could help the downtown as a whole. The issue downtown Norfolk has is class. There are haves and have nots. Most of those who can afford to live there like me dont because its not diverse enough meaning, other than eateries and some gyms and night spots weres the appeal. You made a great point about the shopping in Philly compared to Norfolk and its true. Your very young but, Im not and remember when Granby Street was were my folks took me for some of my school clothes. Also, there used to be a movie theatre on Granby and on and on and on!!!

Downtowns problems as I stated on several topics about Norfolk are directly related to city leadership. As in anything in LIFE you look to the/our leaders. Its to much of an old guard mindset here and trust me theres alot of old money here that likes it as it is here,they don't want the change. This area hasnt changed in attitude since I was a child. Yes, a few more skyscrapers and there not over 30 stories(Norfolk's downtown) so they havent changed the skyline drastically. And now they have light rail which may or may not work here because people in our area with cars love them(those without cars will use it the most of course). Its not like light rail is like a subway system etc. and goes everywhere locally. Just not a city(Norfolk) that has ever had a BIG things leader in place and trust this. Politics is BIG business and all politicians are brought to a degree, not crooked but, they owe someone a favor if not many favors and that effects decisions city leaders make as well.

Varider your waaayyy younger than me and may never see this area change unless we get a former mayor/newcomer of a BIG city to move here and change things or maybe a local who just has a magnifying personality that changes the city of Norfolk. Charlotte is always a great example of a sleepy town with potential into a city that has come into its own. Like one member said its(Charlotte) a BIG Va Beach and to him and thats a good thing because our biggest city in the metro is Va Beach, I'll take a Bigger Va Beach over what we have now,hahahahah,and that skyline, WOW,impressive! Charlotte no matter how they did it, they did!!! L.G.N.M

Edited January 18, 2010 by usermel

[brikkman]

I think the main thing is people like things they aren't used too. I know A LOT of people from NYC that move to Norfolk and Virginia Beach because it's too hectic up north. Me, being from the medium sized city like Hampton Roads, am attracted to the big, hectic Northeastern cities. But I also love HR. Anyway, may I ask what your rap name is?

Nothing wrong with that, you deserve what you need in life. Just remember, you will not be the same person you are in 5 years (regardless of what you may think now). I remember when I had the same ideas and dreams, then my son was born my junior year in college and I decided to make a power move after graduation and be near him. I do not regret that decision, I love HR. I just think the culture is a little unfair to younger professional and you can definitely see that the area is geared towards the military and older people. Makes it hard for a young person to want to stay or live. I must say, big cities do not excite me like some people do (now that I am 30). People will tell you a lot, how cities are different, how this one is better than that one, how many things there are to do. But the cold reality about cities is the general make up is the same. Remember that no matter what anyone tells you, hell it is what makes a city, if not it would be called something else. Tall buildings, more than average amount of people, different places to eat, theater, movies, mass transit, blah blah blah…..Norfolk has a small representation of that, key word “small”.

[brikkman]

VaRider I agree with your take on the prices downtown. If the prices for good apartments were more affordable it could help the downtown as a whole. The issue downtown Norfolk has is class. There are haves and have nots. Most of those who can afford to live there like me dont because its not diverse enough meaning, other than eateries and some gyms and night spots weres the appeal. You made a great point about the shopping in Philly compared to Norfolk and its true. Your very young but, Im not and remember when Granby Street was were my folks took me for some of my school clothes. Also, there used to be a movie theatre on Granby and on and on and on!!!

Downtowns problems as I stated on several topics about Norfolk are directly related to city leadership. As in anything in LIFE you look to the/our leaders. Its to much of an old guard mindset here and trust me theres alot of old money here that likes it as it is here,they don't want the change. This area hasnt changed in attitude since I was a child. Yes, a few more skyscrapers and there not over 30 stories(Norfolk's downtown) so they havent changed the skyline drastically. And now they have light rail which may or may not work here because people in our area with cars love them(those without cars will use it the most of course). Its not like light rail is like a subway system etc. and goes everywhere locally. Just not a city(Norfolk) that has ever had a BIG things leader in place and trust this. Politics is BIG business and all politicians are brought to a degree, not crooked but, they owe someone a favor if not many favors and that effects decisions city leaders make as well.

Varider your waaayyy younger than me and may never see this area change unless we get a former mayor/newcomer of a BIG city to move here and change things or maybe a local who just has a magnifying personality that changes the city of Norfolk. Charlotte is always a great example of a sleepy town with potential into a city that has come into its own. Like one member said its(Charlotte) a BIG Va Beach and to him and thats a good thing because our biggest city in the metro is Va Beach, I'll take a Bigger Va Beach over what we have now,hahahahah,and that skyline, WOW,impressive! Charlotte no matter how they did it, they did!!! L.G.N.M

I will just add to this. And regardless of where you live, you are going to want great and bigger better things for your home town, especially if you grew up with pride in your heart. I tell this story all the time. When I was in college, we had a large jersey and New York base and all of them talked the same crap about how down here is slow, blah blah blah. A lot of those kids have had the same friends all their life and didn't know how to make friends that weren't from that area. Made them look weird to me, but hey what did I know. But here is what I found funnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyy. Because I kept hearing people say I"m from the borough blah blah. I decided to ask a group of them what did "Borough" mean. Everytime they described it, it sounded like a "neighborhood". So I use to say, hell we have that back home, LOL. Needles to say, I never got a legit answer. I finally looked it up one day back in 2004/5 and got the definition of it. I found it sad that they did not know what it meant, but they threw the word around because not too many other places in America use the term anymore. And that world/setup is the only reason why NY is considered the biggest city in the US..........Hell and shopping, so what, the internet made that vantage point invalid IMO.

[urbanlife]

I will just add to this. And regardless of where you live, you are going to want great and bigger better things for your home town, especially if you grew up with pride in your heart. I tell this story all the time. When I was in college, we had a large jersey and New York base and all of them talked the same crap about how down here is slow, blah blah blah. A lot of those kids have had the same friends all their life and didn't know how to make friends that weren't from that area. Made them look weird to me, but hey what did I know. But here is what I found funnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyy. Because I kept hearing people say I"m from the borough blah blah. I decided to ask a group of them what did "Borough" mean. Everytime they described it, it sounded like a "neighborhood". So I use to say, hell we have that back home, LOL. Needles to say, I never got a legit answer. I finally looked it up one day back in 2004/5 and got the definition of it. I found it sad that they did not know what it meant, but they threw the word around because not too many other places in America use the term anymore. And that world/setup is the only reason why NY is considered the biggest city in the US..........Hell and shopping, so what, the internet made that vantage point invalid IMO.

My visit to manhattan this past year, I learned that most of manhattan and probably the other surrounding parts of the city are nothing more than very dense neighborhoods...it is definitely a big city of neighborhoods...which is what every city should be like. Could you imagine having everything you needed where you lived be no more than a 20 minute walk away? Or having to walk 10 minutes to get to a transit stop and hop of a 5-15 minute train ride to get you close to work everyday? That was always what bothered me most about suburban neighborhood developments is that they try so hard to strip away all of those luxuries that should come with living in a neighborhood.

Ocean Lakes in VB is a great example of what is wrong with suburban development...imagine with how big that area is, including Red Mill into this as well, what it would of been like if the development had created a central core for retail and restaurants, then smaller spots for retail to be spread throughout. Then have apartments and town houses mixed into were the retail is, with the surrounding area being filled with mostly single family homes...then having the roads create primary destinations by leading to these pocket retail spots and a central core. People in those neighborhoods would never leave their own neighborhood except to go to work.

[varider]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/conn-firm-will-design-norfolks-new-50-million-library#primary_tabs

Newman Architects from New Haven, Conn., an award-winning firm, will design the city's $50 million downtown Slover Library.

Preliminary renderings released today by Newman show a glass atrium building connecting the Seaboard Building, where the downtown library has been moved, to the new library addition.

The top floor of the addition will offer sweeping views of downtown and the harbor.

Jane Batten, widow of media mogul and philanthropist Frank Batten Sr., will play an active role in helping the 18-month design process, including sitting in on focus groups. Frank Batten donated $20 million to the project shortly before his death last year.

Renderings of the $50 million, Samuel L. Slover Library in downtown Norfolk by Newman Architects of New Haven, Conn. Made possible by a $20 million donation from Frank Batten Sr., the 108,000 square foot library will open in about 3 years. (handout from Newman Architects of New Haven, Conn)

This library is going to be awesome!!

[urbanlife]

The exterior shots of the new library are okay, not sure it will be that noticed, but it wont stand out in a bad way either...but those interior renderings look absolutely amazing. This is really going to be a great building, especially from the inside.

[Norfolk4Life]

i always like the real people photoshopped into a rendering....

[usermel]

Gonna look great, finally some good news!!! L.G.N.M

[ronsmytheiii]

I just hope they keep faithful to the current library, it is amazing example of neo-classical design:

Much better than the Kirn:

Edited January 20, 2010 by ronsmytheiii

[mistermetaj]

I just hope they keep faithful to the current library, it is amazing example of neo-classical design:

Much better than the Kirn

Couldn't agree with you more. The current library is the most beautiful building in Norfolk by far.

The Kirn was an abomination and looked like trash inside and out.

[brikkman]

My visit to manhattan this past year, I learned that most of manhattan and probably the other surrounding parts of the city are nothing more than very dense neighborhoods...it is definitely a big city of neighborhoods...which is what every city should be like. Could you imagine having everything you needed where you lived be no more than a 20 minute walk away? Or having to walk 10 minutes to get to a transit stop and hop of a 5-15 minute train ride to get you close to work everyday? That was always what bothered me most about suburban neighborhood developments is that they try so hard to strip away all of those luxuries that should come with living in a neighborhood.

Ocean Lakes in VB is a great example of what is wrong with suburban development...imagine with how big that area is, including Red Mill into this as well, what it would of been like if the development had created a central core for retail and restaurants, then smaller spots for retail to be spread throughout. Then have apartments and town houses mixed into were the retail is, with the surrounding area being filled with mostly single family homes...then having the roads create primary destinations by leading to these pocket retail spots and a central core. People in those neighborhoods would never leave their own neighborhood except to go to work.

You are exactly right. When you come back, you will notice in those same developments, they have added small retail in front of the subdivision. I guess that is the city way of realizing what they did in an effort to correct it.

[brikkman]

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/01/conn-firm-will-design-norfolks-new-50-million-library#primary_tabs

This library is going to be awesome!!

Hot DAMN!!!!

Now that's something I can get behind. Looks very classy and not cookie-cutter for a change.

[Norfolk4Life]

too bad they cant put a restaurant or cafe in the building on the right to share an outdoor eating spot in the little plaza.

[vaceltic]

It is really cool that the exterior of the neo-classical building will now be part of the interior. Glass walkways connecting the new building to the old through its windows. Brilliant!

[urbanlife]

It is really cool that the exterior of the neo-classical building will now be part of the interior. Glass walkways connecting the new building to the old through its windows. Brilliant!

This has to be the best element about this building's interior. I always love it when an exterior of a building is showcased as an interior.

[Glassoul]

The exterior shots of the new library are okay, not sure it will be that noticed, but it wont stand out in a bad way either...but those interior renderings look absolutely amazing. This is really going to be a great building, especially from the inside.

The exterior image above is wrong.

[Norfolk4Life]

what is wrong about it?

[vaceltic]

The exterior image above is wrong.

I think what Glassoul is saying is the exterior rendering was a concept drawing done by UDA as part of their urban design consulting with the City of Norfolk. They are NOT architects or engineers that produce the final design. The exterior will look different than that but the architects will build upon the concept.

[urbanlife]

But judging the interior renderings, it is easy to say that the exterior image from UDA is probably pretty close. The middle glass area is probably the only major thing that will be improved upon with the architects...and judging from the interior rendering, the exterior will probably match the beauty of the space. I am guessing the addition to the building will probably stay pretty close to matching the original building to create a form of balance on the exterior so that it doesnt feel like a new, and completely different building has been attached to such a beautiful old building.

I am actually really excited about this addition, this will be some great architecture for the city, and from the looks of it, I would love to see this architecture firm doing more work in Norfolk...and the rest of Hampton Roads, of course.

Also judging by the interior renderings, the new addition will be about 4 stories tall....now if only a talented architecture firm could design the light rail stop at the old Kirn site.

Edited January 22, 2010 by urbanlife

[varider]

Out of curiousity.. how do you all feel about Freemason St. and the little two story single-family homes that line the street all the way to St. Paul's?

I really don't like it and think it would fit in more in Park Place. Freemason would be better if it were lined with 5 or 6 floor apartment buildings and ground floor retail.