Downtown Norfolk Progress

[ronsmytheiii]

I would rather let the city suddenly swoop in and take a derelict building than worry that my building will do this:

[Telmnstr]

But what a ride!!!!

[urbanlife]

Who knows how many warnings the building owners were given before the city finally came in and condemned the building which forced the tenants of the building out.

[varider]

I have never seen so much construction going on in one place as I did today in DT. It seems like every road is closed.. Sidewalk detours everywhere, Buildings being renovated/ restored, buildings being contructed, rail work being done, facade work, etc. Every block seems to be getting improved. Although it's inconvenient at the moment, when these major projects are complete and the trains are running I think downtown will be GREAT. Much more people will come DT without the road closures. I can't wait.

Details on Granby looks to be open.. I guess it's a men's store.

The Residence Inn seems to be getting a lot of business. When I rolled past this a.m, 5 or 6 people were unloading their cars. California, Florida,New York, etc. tags.

[urbanlife]

I have never seen so much construction going on in one place as I did today in DT. It seems like every road is closed.. Sidewalk detours everywhere, Buildings being renovated/ restored, buildings being contructed, rail work being done, facade work, etc. Every block seems to be getting improved. Although it's inconvenient at the moment, when these major projects are complete and the trains are running I think downtown will be GREAT. Much more people will come DT without the road closures. I can't wait.

Details on Granby looks to be open.. I guess it's a men's store.

The Residence Inn seems to be getting a lot of business. When I rolled past this a.m, 5 or 6 people were unloading their cars. California, Florida,New York, etc. tags.

Sounds like the signs of a growing city. I have always said to people who complain about the construction in downtowns, if there is no construction going on, then that means the downtown is slowly dying.

[varider]

I just read this NY Times article from back in the day on Norfolk.

I'm glad we've escaped the Tidewater Backwater image.. but I want to know what needs to happen to grow Norfolk's downtown? I have a man-love for cities, and what must be done to turn Norfolk from the mid-major city it is now, into a succesful job-plentiful metropolis? We need a stronger urban core. How do we grow?

[usermel]

Its very crazy Varider found that article he sent a link to, I have already read it about 2-3 years ago. Im a research fanatic and stummbled upon it. Any of you who see this link Varider has provided please,check it out. Its very inciteful to see what others think of our area and then it was 1999, 11 years ago. As for Varider question, I have no REAL ANSWERS myself. Im just a citizen as you are but, people like you with passion and desire change cities for the better Varider.

You spoke of leaving the area to be in a more urban city like a Philly. I cant blame you buddy. I been to Philly several times myself and other great urban centers and the way it feels there is exciting. That said, what if you were to stay here after you lived elsewere for say, 5 years or so. Came back and after you experienced most of what big cities had to offer you entered into the local scene and became a major player in the development of our urban core. This can potentially maake you a future legend here as is the man who built the Chrysler complex and museum!

I got a GREAT feeling about you Varider, I LOVE your passion for the area. This of course didnt answer your question but, I think you and other young humans like you are the people needed to fix the problem of turning our metro and city of Norfolk into the Mecca it should have been years ago when Baltimore,D.C,Boston,Philly and other older U.S cities kept growing while Norfolk just became a military town. I do know this. The military heavy local economy has played a HUGE part in the lack of urban growth. WHY? Norfolk never needed a financial core like cities normally do to survive economically. If the military abandoned here they would make more of an effort to do so.

Norfolk is a weird city because its wealth and importance cant be seen in its downtown financial center. Our city and state and metro has STRONG government influence and power. Our money is in governments and military, not downtowns and urban structure. Fortunate for us in a way. Those other cities have done terrible during the ecnomic downturn while our state and metro has done ok. Yes, we had alot lose jobs,home,cars,marriages etc.! That said, not as much as other states and metros.

You and the younger VA residents will set the tone for the urban future of Norfolk Varider!!!

[virginia pe]

I have no REAL ANSWERS myself. Im just a citizen as you are but, people like you with passion and desire change cities for the better Varider.

I got a GREAT feeling about you Varider, I LOVE your passion for the area. This of course didnt answer your question but, I think you and other young humans like you are the people needed to fix the problem of turning our metro and city of Norfolk into the Mecca it should have been years ago

You and the younger VA residents will set the tone for the urban future of Norfolk Varider!!!

Several people have made similar comments on UP over the past few months - that the members of this forum should lead the way to make Norfolk what is needs to be. But is anyone really doing anything about it? Having a UP member elected as mayor or to the city council would be great, but it isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Yet there are things you can do make a difference in 2010, but it involves getting off your duff and doing something instead of posting gripes from your computer.

Here are some things you can do, starting today, to make Norfolk better:

Norfolk is having elections for city council members and for mayor on May 4. Do some research, find out who is running, and what they stand for. Pick a candidate whose views align with yours, and call their campaign office. Volunteer to work on their campaign. Most of the work is walking in neighborhoods to stick campaign literature on doorknobs or knocking on doors to ask people to vote for your candidate. It may mean going to a phone bank and making phone calls. There are other jobs to be done, but these are the ones you will most likely be asked to do. What is the payoff? Aside from the indirect payoff of helping a candidate who agrees with your views to get elected, if you work enough, you may get to know the candidate personnally. In some cases, you could get to know the candidate well enough that you can reach him directly on the phone after he is eleected to voice your views on an issure.

If you do not live in Norfolk, Virginia Beach is having city council elections in November. Also, Congressman Glenn Nye is up for reelection in the 3rd congressional district. Six republicans are vying for the nomination to run against him. Google them, go to their website, get to know what they stand for, and volunteer to help out.

If you cannot volunteer to help out in a campaign, at least find out who the candidates are, what they believe, and get out and vote. Voter turnout is abysmally low for these elections, so it doesn't take a lot of people to change the tide in a local election.

You can also volunteer to serve on one of the boards or commissions. Find out who your councilman is, ask to meet them, and let them know of your interest. You are not going to be appointed to a major, policy-setting commission, such as the planning commission, right away. You will probably be appointed to some minor board you never heard of. That's okay. The idea is to get started. Once you are one that board, work hard, get to know people, and let them get to know you. Eventually, you will have an opportunity to move up to more and more important boards. There are people serving on city councils and school boards in Hampton Roads who started by serving on a minor board that no one else wanted to serve on.

Working on a campaign or serving on a commission will not turn Norfolk into a megopolis by this fall. But it is a start. There are a lot of good opinions and enthusiasm on this site. Now I challenge you to take it to the next level.

BTW, I know of one member of UP who has done that. Last fall, he worked hard during the campaign, knocking on doors, making phone calls, etc. Now, Gov. Bob McDonnell knows him by name. He can't call the govenor directly to voice his opinion, but it's a start. He is getting to be known in political circles in Norfolk and Virginia. If a handful of UP members could do this, it could make a difference in Norfolk.

Get out, get informed, get involved.

[varider]

Thanks usermel. Actually, I really don't know if I want to leave. Today, I went to Richmond to watch our Monarchs compete in the CAA tournament (very strong ODU presence in the Richmond Coliseum this afternoon) and while I was there.. I thought, "dang... this is pretty nice, better than Norfolk..." and then when I got back to Hampton Roads, we went downtown and had dinner... and I completely changed my mind. Norfolk is great and I love the city so much. Norfolk seems much more alive and "vibrant." Richmond seems like a dead zone. Pure brick and concrete.DT Norfolk was packed this evening. MacArthur packed with shoppers, restaurants with 45 minute waits, foot traffic, taxicabs, concerts, Admirals games, etc.

But this being said.. I feel that there is much more that needs to be done here and the city needs to focus on creating an urban, walkable CENTER CITY. I don't feel like Norfolk wants to be a real city. While I was in Richmond, the whole time I was critiquing it or whatever.. I love the fact that they have a gridded street system. That really adds to the urban feel in my opinion. It's clear that Richmond has a bigger downtown.. but it seems to be just office space. Very little retail, not as much residential, etc. But Richmond FEELS more like a city. They have wide roads, yet they are pedestrian friendly. Busses run through Broad Street like every 2 minutes. Around here we always talk about "establishing a sense of place." In Richmond, I could feel what that actually means. Signs everywhere talking about Richmond.. Color-coded parking decks.. Directional signs for pedestrians, etc. I feel Norfolk could do a much better job in that aspect.

It wouldn't take much for Norfolk to become GREAT. I don't expect it to become New York, Philly, or Baltimore.. but with a little vision, Norfolk could become one the best medium sized.. almost major cities in America. All it takes is some forward-thinking leaders and a vision to become a real city. I think all of us here agree that we want a more urban Norfolk. Why don't we do anything to try and achieve this? It wouldn't take much. Encourage businesses to move downtown. Encourage residents to frequent downtown shops. What about a marketing movement trying to get people from HR to go downtown Norfolk and see what it has to offer?

I have a vision for Norfolk... do you guys share this with me.. or am I alone?

We need more jobs in the center. Usermel made a good point about the fact that Norfolk doesn't NEED a strong urban core because we have 80,000 jobs at the Naval Station, etc. But in case you haven't noticed... Norfolk has not grown in population wise significantly since like 1950. We need to attract major corporations to our downtown.It's good that we have a new major office tower complete.. but we need some big business to come into town and fill that space. Then we need more office towers. I think that we really need to look at that land east of downtown as an extension of downtown Norfolk. Not a SPQ more like a DNE (Downtown Norfolk Extended) .

I LOVE NORFOLK.

[varider]

Several people have made similar comments on UP over the past few months - that the members of this forum should lead the way to make Norfolk what is needs to be. But is anyone really doing anything about it? Having a UP member elected as mayor or to the city council would be great, but it isn't likely to happen anytime soon. Yet there are things you can do make a difference in 2010, but it involves getting off your duff and doing something instead of posting gripes from your computer.

Here are some things you can do, starting today, to make Norfolk better:

Norfolk is having elections for city council members and for mayor on May 4. Do some research, find out who is running, and what they stand for. Pick a candidate whose views align with yours, and call their campaign office. Volunteer to work on their campaign. Most of the work is walking in neighborhoods to stick campaign literature on doorknobs or knocking on doors to ask people to vote for your candidate. It may mean going to a phone bank and making phone calls. There are other jobs to be done, but these are the ones you will most likely be asked to do. What is the payoff? Aside from the indirect payoff of helping a candidate who agrees with your views to get elected, if you work enough, you may get to know the candidate personnally. In some cases, you could get to know the candidate well enough that you can reach him directly on the phone after he is eleected to voice your views on an issure.

If you do not live in Norfolk, Virginia Beach is having city council elections in November. Also, Congressman Glenn Nye is up for reelection in the 3rd congressional district. Six republicans are vying for the nomination to run against him. Google them, go to their website, get to know what they stand for, and volunteer to help out.

If you cannot volunteer to help out in a campaign, at least find out who the candidates are, what they believe, and get out and vote. Voter turnout is abysmally low for these elections, so it doesn't take a lot of people to change the tide in a local election.

You can also volunteer to serve on one of the boards or commissions. Find out who your councilman is, ask to meet them, and let them know of your interest. You are not going to be appointed to a major, policy-setting commission, such as the planning commission, right away. You will probably be appointed to some minor board you never heard of. That's okay. The idea is to get started. Once you are one that board, work hard, get to know people, and let them get to know you. Eventually, you will have an opportunity to move up to more and more important boards. There are people serving on city councils and school boards in Hampton Roads who started by serving on a minor board that no one else wanted to serve on.

Working on a campaign or serving on a commission will not turn Norfolk into a megopolis by this fall. But it is a start. There are a lot of good opinions and enthusiasm on this site. Now I challenge you to take it to the next level.

BTW, I know of one member of UP who has done that. Last fall, he worked hard during the campaign, knocking on doors, making phone calls, etc. Now, Gov. Bob McDonnell knows him by name. He can't call the govenor directly to voice his opinion, but it's a start. He is getting to be known in political circles in Norfolk and Virginia. If a handful of UP members could do this, it could make a difference in Norfolk.

Get out, get informed, get involved.

I'd love to be mayor of Norfolk.

[Norfolk4Life]

I'd love to be mayor of Norfolk.

me too. we should come up with our own list of UP members in each of the norfolk wards and run for a UP council.

[usermel]

Hey Varider, your right about the reason for the urban center not being the metros focus is the high amount of military jobs/government jobs!!! Also, about Richmond and its more city feel. Richmond is a more historical city nationwide anyway. Was the capital city of the confederacy as well as just as important of a place as New York and Philly and also Boston when the US was becoming a country. Was the most important southern city to be exact! Virginia as a state when we really think about it is a diverse place. You have the rolling hills and mountains to the west to the capital an urban downtown of Richmond in the middle. You have the urban sprawl and growth of Northern VA and its giant metro feel and high per capita income(highest in the US most years, havent seen this years numbers )! Then you have a star of a city in Roanoke that shines in the west as the only metro or city over 100,000 in the western part of the state. Last but, not least is the Norfolk/Va Beach metro and its wonderful peninsula(Hampton/Newport News/Williamsburg) to the north plenty of waterways and a oceanfront that attracts many.

Id say patience is the key. Norfolks metro has been getting fat of doughnuts for years!! What I mean is the military is easy money/jobs and economically has padded the damage done via the economic downturn! How do we get a more financially based downtown in a metro fat of the fruits of government contracts? One year at a time. One Wells Fargo at a time.

Also, Norfolks population drop and not increasing since the 1950's peak(over 300,000) is decieving! Why? Most who leave Norfolk did when jobs took them away to the suburbs of Va Beach/Chesapeake! I remember as a kid Chesapeake was still VERY country and now its becoming a smaller twin of Va BEach due to spill over. My point, ex Norfolk residents have moved to the suburbs so we didnt lose most that left the city to other places. Look at our metro areas population and that tells the population truth. Va Beach has slowed in population growth as well the last 10 years or so. Norfolk will be fine. Once light rail is complete and companies abroad and in the US see whats going on here it will attract more businesses here. Its going to be a crawl before we walk growth we will see in Norfolks financial center. Norfolk never needed it and still doesnt need it. Hopefully before we NEED a more business based economy locally we will have already diversified enough and transfrmed into a metro that depends on job creation and stop eating so many military doughnuts. HAHAHAHAHA! Sometimes I forget how fortunate this area and state is. Great economy compared to bigger states(Michigan for one) and we have room for growth. L.G.N.M

[varider]

Hey Varider, your right about the reason for the urban center not being the metros focus is the high amount of military jobs/government jobs!!! Also, about Richmond and its more city feel. Richmond is a more historical city nationwide anyway. Was the capital city of the confederacy as well as just as important of a place as New York and Philly and also Boston when the US was becoming a country. Was the most important southern city to be exact! Virginia as a state when we really think about it is a diverse place. You have the rolling hills and mountains to the west to the capital an urban downtown of Richmond in the middle. You have the urban sprawl and growth of Northern VA and its giant metro feel and high per capita income(highest in the US most years, havent seen this years numbers )! Then you have a star of a city in Roanoke that shines in the west as the only metro or city over 100,000 in the western part of the state. Last but, not least is the Norfolk/Va Beach metro and its wonderful peninsula(Hampton/Newport News/Williamsburg) to the north plenty of waterways and a oceanfront that attracts many.

Id say patience is the key. Norfolks metro has been getting fat of doughnuts for years!! What I mean is the military is easy money/jobs and economically has padded the damage done via the economic downturn! How do we get a more financially based downtown in a metro fat of the fruits of government contracts? One year at a time. One Wells Fargo at a time.

Also, Norfolks population drop and not increasing since the 1950's peak(over 300,000) is decieving! Why? Most who leave Norfolk did when jobs took them away to the suburbs of Va Beach/Chesapeake! I remember as a kid Chesapeake was still VERY country and now its becoming a smaller twin of Va BEach due to spill over. My point, ex Norfolk residents have moved to the suburbs so we didnt lose most that left the city to other places. Look at our metro areas population and that tells the population truth. Va Beach has slowed in population growth as well the last 10 years or so. Norfolk will be fine. Once light rail is complete and companies abroad and in the US see whats going on here it will attract more businesses here. Its going to be a crawl before we walk growth we will see in Norfolks financial center. Norfolk never needed it and still doesnt need it. Hopefully before we NEED a more business based economy locally we will have already diversified enough and transfrmed into a metro that depends on job creation and stop eating so many military doughnuts. HAHAHAHAHA! Sometimes I forget how fortunate this area and state is. Great economy compared to bigger states(Michigan for one) and we have room for growth. L.G.N.M

Yeah, I know about the white flight or whatever.. And I am amazed when I think that at one point Norfolk had 308,000 residents in 53 sq. miles. I know those people who left are still in Hampton Roads.. whether Chesapeake, VB, Suffolk, etc. I think Norfolk has almost as many jobs as it does residents. It's sad to think that many of those who work in downtown Norfolk live in other cities. What needs to happen so that people feel comfortable living in Norfolk? I live in Chesapeake now {worse city in America}, about 8 miles from downtown Norfolk and would die to be able to live in Norfolk. Sure it has crime, sure it has crackheads, sure it has beggars.. but it's a great city. Norfolk needs a complete revitalization of every single public housing development in the city. First, the developments are way too low density. I don't know if this is politically correct, but why should jobless, lazy, idlers be able to live right next to downtown Norfolk?I really think the projects need to be torn down, and rebuilt in a high-density fashion.. maybe somewhere on the Southside of Norfolk. 10 floors tall. New York style. I'm so tired of seeing two story project strips all over the place with clothes-lines and high grass. This would open up a plethora of land to create mixed-use,walkable developments, maybe connected by streetcar. You would still have your suburban neighborhoods like Larchmont, Colonial Place, Suburban Acres, etc. but the urban core would be as urban as it gets. 5-7 floor apartments/condos/retail/office, wide sidewalks, bus lanes/streetcar lanes, etc. The bad thing is ... this dream of mine will probably never happen.

[Brent]

Hey Varaider, I'm glad that you enjoyed your tip here (Richmond). I saw your review in the Richmond section last night and from that have a pretty good idea where you went on your tour (which was a pretty good one, I'm glad that you were able to cover so many blocks, BTW, on your trip did you cross the Capital grounds making your way to Main from Broad?). Downtown may have seemed dead in that section because you never left the government center and central business district. Downtown is quite large (which is good and bad.. There can be a lot of office buildings between points A and B. It isn't as compact as Norfolk so you can feel kind of far away from things depending on where you are, unlike Norfolk witch is that perfect size for strolling, seeing and doing. You were never in any residential areas, though you were not far from them. Downtown Richmond does have more residents than downtown Norfolk (from 2005 census data downtown Richmond had 6,286 residents in 3,580 housing units and many more were added over the past 5 years and just this year 1,200 new housing units will be delivered. Norfolk has 2,500 housing units with 1,000 more planned) Here are the links...

http://www.venturerichmond.com/mediacenter/downtownprofile.html

http://www.downtownnorfolk.org/business/indicators

Norfolk is a fantastic city. I always enjoy visiting it and think that it does a better job of establishing a sense of place than Richmond does (at the city government level anyway...you know the signs, sidewalks and landscaping stuff you guys do a way better job of that than we do, I think that Richmond has a very strong identity with regards to food, art and music but that is all done on the individual level). Like you, I always think that I'm missing out on something when I visit other places but am always so happy to be home and find so much more to like about my city than the cities that I’ve just visited. But I can see really great things happening in Norfolk that make me all kinds of jealous. When the trains start rolling down your streets and all of those new office workers and residents move in you will see that Norfolk has arrived.

[varider]

Hey Varaider, I'm glad that you enjoyed your tip here (Richmond). I saw your review in the Richmond section last night and from that have a pretty good idea where you went on your tour (which was a pretty good one, I'm glad that you were able to cover so many blocks, BTW, on your trip did you cross the Capital grounds making your way to Main from Broad?). Downtown may have seemed dead in that section because you never left the government center and central business district. Downtown is quite large (which is good and bad.. There can be a lot of office buildings between points A and B. It isn't as compact as Norfolk so you can feel kind of far away from things depending on where you are, unlike Norfolk witch is that perfect size for strolling, seeing and doing. You were never in any residential areas, though you were not far from them. Downtown Richmond does have more residents than downtown Norfolk (from 2005 census data downtown Richmond had 6,286 residents in 3,580 housing units and many more were added over the past 5 years and just this year 1,200 new housing units will be delivered. Norfolk has 2,500 housing units with 1,000 more planned) Here are the links...

http://www.ventureri...ownprofile.html

http://www.downtownn...ness/indicators

Norfolk is a fantastic city. I always enjoy visiting it and think that it does a better job of establishing a sense of place than Richmond does (at the city government level anyway...you know the signs, sidewalks and landscaping stuff you guys do a way better job of that than we do, I think that Richmond has a very strong identity with regards to food, art and music but that is all done on the individual level). Like you, I always think that I'm missing out on something when I visit other places but am always so happy to be home and find so much more to like about my city than the cities that I’ve just visited. But I can see really great things happening in Norfolk that make me all kinds of jealous. When the trains start rolling down your streets and all of those new office workers and residents move in you will see that Norfolk has arrived.

Yes, I crossed the Capital grounds headed towards Broad St. And I forgot to mention something else. There was a block on Broad St. heading east I believe.. that was packed with activity.. mainly black people selling stuff and some Africans talking about nonsense basically.. It looked like Brooklyn, NY for about two seconds.. then it was back to regular Broad. What is that about? LOL. You all have a bigger downtown , but I was kind of disappointed in the lack of ground-floor retail. But both cities need work in that aspect. I passed "the National" which reminded me of the NorVa. The Coliseum reminded me of Scope. I saw the Federal Courthouse.. which looks much nicer than our Fed. Courthouse.

&& I'm glad to see an outsider's view on Norfolk. Both cities have their strengths and weaknesses. Richmond's strength is the large corporate base and the street- grid allowing for easier travel mixed with having the largest university in the state downtown and being right off the most travelled interstate in America. I think your weakness is the lack of retail/restaurants. Norfolk's strengths are being on the water, pro sports, and a lot of space for retail to be successful.

Both cities are great and they are probably the two best cities inVA

[Brent]

I agree with you. Norfolk is a wonderful city. Virginia is lucky to have some of the best cities around. Roanoke, Alexandria, Portsmouth, Norfolk and Richmond are some of the most charming and cultural cities around. Virginia has an embarrassing wealth of nice cities. We put our neighbors to shame.

[varider]

I agree with you. Norfolk is a wonderful city. Virginia is lucky to have some of the best cities around. Roanoke, Alexandria, Portsmouth, Norfolk and Richmond are some of the most charming and cultural cities around. Virginia has an embarrassing wealth of nice cities. We put our neighbors to shame.

Ha, don't forget Va Beach.. I know, I know.. big suburb lacking culture..

[usermel]

I feel you VaRider, Norfolk PJ's are an issue. You must remember that your only 18 so to you and your generation its before your time and hard to understand why the PJ's are as they are. The PJ's were done after urban renewal and as you know Norfolk was the 1st city to take advantage of this! At the time, remember, at the time it was historical and agreed that what they were doing would improve Norfolk. Back in the 1950's and early 1960's the PJ's looked different and were new. Now when we view them it looks like a place were the poor live to close to the financial center. Thats not the fault of the dwellers of Tidewater Park,Youngs etc.!

The plan is an outdated one that houses them there. Look at the empty plaza were Popeyes and McDonalds resides! The plaza was a great idea as well when it was useful. Times and technology have made Norfolks decisions in the 1950's seem dumb but, with respect to those leaders at the time it was ground breaking and considered the best idea at the time for the cities low income folks. All my family come from there. I now am doing very well but, without Diggs Prk were I was brn and Youngs/Tidewater/Oakleaf etc.! I would have never made it. They need to develop a plan though to rid of those projects now, I AGREE VARIDER 10,000%! Its going to take time and money to come up with a plan to do so. Maybe a government grant but, the funds arent there in the local governments budget to do so. It may take what they got in the 1950's from the government to fix the issue.

The downtown would be a much better place with those PJ's gone because it could expand downtown. Previous to these PJ's downtown spread out that far. The PJ's shrunk the downtown space for sure. Norfolk made some mistakes based on looking back but, when they made the decisions they seemed like the right thing to do. This time better planning will be needed, lets just hope the city of Norfolk gets it!!! L.G.N.M

[brikkman]

I feel you VaRider, Norfolk PJ's are an issue. You must remember that your only 18 so to you and your generation its before your time and hard to understand why the PJ's are as they are. The PJ's were done after urban renewal and as you know Norfolk was the 1st city to take advantage of this! At the time, remember, at the time it was historical and agreed that what they were doing would improve Norfolk. Back in the 1950's and early 1960's the PJ's looked different and were new. Now when we view them it looks like a place were the poor live to close to the financial center. Thats not the fault of the dwellers of Tidewater Park,Youngs etc.!

The plan is an outdated one that houses them there. Look at the empty plaza were Popeyes and McDonalds resides! The plaza was a great idea as well when it was useful. Times and technology have made Norfolks decisions in the 1950's seem dumb but, with respect to those leaders at the time it was ground breaking and considered the best idea at the time for the cities low income folks. All my family come from there. I now am doing very well but, without Diggs Prk were I was brn and Youngs/Tidewater/Oakleaf etc.! I would have never made it. They need to develop a plan though to rid of those projects now, I AGREE VARIDER 10,000%! Its going to take time and money to come up with a plan to do so. Maybe a government grant but, the funds arent there in the local governments budget to do so. It may take what they got in the 1950's from the government to fix the issue.

The downtown would be a much better place with those PJ's gone because it could expand downtown. Previous to these PJ's downtown spread out that far. The PJ's shrunk the downtown space for sure. Norfolk made some mistakes based on looking back but, when they made the decisions they seemed like the right thing to do. This time better planning will be needed, lets just hope the city of Norfolk gets it!!! L.G.N.M

Between a rock and a hard spot. its a shame, no such thing should take a hold of a city's progress like that. The city has to commit to a notion that these plans of pj's are outdated and hurts the city from many perspectives. Without that committment, there is no point of changing. I question what NHRA does every day, I question the council intentions all the time. Its like they do not know they exist and to what level. I believe lack of progress in that area is due do the harm it will create for the rest of the city. If they moved them, they believe they will affect other parts of the city and the citizens will complain. So they just keep them there. The well off do not mind sticking these types in the corner as long as they do not have to deal with them.

Edited March 8, 2010 by brikkman

[usermel]

When in Downtown I think of when Norfolk was spread out more as a downtown and imagine it like that now without the slums of Norfolks past. What will be great for Norfolk is moving the citizens in the Downtown PJ's to another location(will probably need government help) and then plan out what to do with the new downtown building space. I say go with the attitude of expanding the financial center. Maybe add some residential things for more residents as well. Mostly add financial center space to expand the downtowns size like Richmonds is!!!! L.G.N.M

[varider]

When in Downtown I think of when Norfolk was spread out more as a downtown and imagine it like that now without the slums of Norfolks past. What will be great for Norfolk is moving the citizens in the Downtown PJ's to another location(will probably need government help) and then plan out what to do with the new downtown building space. I say go with the attitude of expanding the financial center. Maybe add some residential things for more residents as well. Mostly add financial center space to expand the downtowns size like Richmonds is!!!! L.G.N.M

I agree. The area east of downtown needs to be looked at as an extension of the Central Business District. Not as a redeveloped public housing inclusive Freemason-like neighborhood.

[usermel]

Yeah, totally agree with you. Imagine all that as a part of downtown,WOW!!!!! Only can imagine how it was when up Church Street was a part of the downtown and those PJ's!!! Norfolk has to its credit attempted change for the better. I guess I can be disappointed to much with the city because unlike other cities they've at least tried here. I think we will get it right. The downtown is losing space so soon those PJ's will have to be addressed for more land use for the financial district!! L.G.N.M

[brikkman]

Yeah, totally agree with you. Imagine all that as a part of downtown,WOW!!!!! Only can imagine how it was when up Church Street was a part of the downtown and those PJ's!!! Norfolk has to its credit attempted change for the better. I guess I can be disappointed to much with the city because unlike other cities they've at least tried here. I think we will get it right. The downtown is losing space so soon those PJ's will have to be addressed for more land use for the financial district!! L.G.N.M

All though church st. is better than what it was, I do not like what they did with it, AT ALL. I was born 5 minutes walk from church st. off A avenue.

[usermel]

WOW, 5 minutes away! Cool! Church Street is filled with History,LOTS! Black history and more importantly NORFOLKS GREAT HISTORY! Its forgotten how important Church Street used to be!!!! Man, there are no time machines(I Think,HAHAHAHA!) but, if there were I would love to see the Norfolk of the times when Church Street was alive. Now its dead. I remember when some of the older buildings were still up going to a pool room with my real dad(was raised by my aunt and uncle/ward of the state) and watching him play pool. All the colorful people who walked and lived in the area on Church Street and other parts of Norfolk are gone. CHurch was like our 125th street and its sad we lost the history with the lost of the life of that street. The name exist but, the businesses and people are gone.

Its still got issues they didnt address though but, LOVE the small memories I have of Church Street! The old pictures of Church Street always get me emotional!!! L.G.N.M

[varider]

http://insidebiz.com/news/real-estate-industry-optimistic-about-2010

A further breakdown shows that suburban Peninsula office properties had the highest vacancy rate at 17.6 percent followed by suburban office properties on the Southside with 14.2 percent. Downtown Norfolk office properties recorded the lowest rate of 10.9 percent

This report leads me to be optimistic on the future of urban developments in the city center.