Lake Nona - Medical City

[Poe Tempkin]

1 hour ago, TRENCH said:

Lake Nona could have been a walkable live-play-work place but as usual, our leaders bend for the car-centric developers. 

Keep in mind that Narcoossee runs along the eastern border of Lake Nona and is not itself Lake Nona, nor are any of the hanger-on neighborhoods across it. There's still some hope for the elements you mention depending on how the remaining development goes. Laureate Park is markedly more compact than most barrel tile-topped box house subdivisions. It could still turn out to be (relatively) good.

[WAJAS]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:59 AM, shardoon said:

The problem is that many assume that only people with left wing activism tendencies are of value as an imangineer or in a dept of creative talent. That is the misnomer here that many in the press ignore. There are many with left wing tendencies without an activism bend, moderates, and ones with right wing tendencies that would do just a fine job replacing those that chose not to move.

Look, politics aside, some simply may not want to uproot their families and move across the country and if they can get a similar job close to home, why wouldn't they stay for their family?

I can guarantee you that if Universal's counterpart to this division made an announcement that they were moving back to California, I can tell you quite a bit of their local workers would be upset and not want to move there. 

However, a fake narrative on a universal move for them not wanting to move would not be created in the press because it does not fit the media's narrative.

Please don't fall for this garbage. For the few that stay behind in California with this disney move, I would say only a very small handful are doing it for politics. Most would be staying because they simply don't want to move across the country. 

I didn't assume that.

My points were: 1) Disney's PR mismanagement and the State's response created an environment less favorable to Disney; 2) Forcing a whole workforce to move across the country, especially one full of "the best in the business" and know their value, is going to result in many not relocating, which can diminish your future product. 3) New leadership leads to new priorities. That means that Iger may have shifted the focus of those leading this move to other tasks.

Those were 3 distinct points, and I did not make a connection between the talent relocating and their beliefs or political affiliation.

Either way, I think you overestimate the amount of people who can fill those positions, maintain the company's standard, and are either already in (and looking for a job) or looking to relocate to Orlando. Either way, that's the math Disney is doing.

3 hours ago, Poe Tempkin said:

Well, it's a free country and nobody is obligated to work at a particular place of employment. They can show their true disdain by leaving the company as you've indicated some have and others will. If they have deep ties to California or are just plain disinclined to move to Florida, I don't blame them for moving on. If Disney proceeds with the move they will find alternative talent to fill the positions these folks vacate.

I mean; Yes, it is "a free country," but I wasn't arguing against that. They can leave the company. My point is Disney may have underestimated the amount of talent willing to relocate or available to switch companies. Universal Creative is building a whole new park at the moment, and the sister industry where themed design talent is frequently pulled from (film and television) are not located in Orlando.

[jrs2]

21 hours ago, WAJAS said:

I didn't assume that.

My points were: 1) Disney's PR mismanagement and the State's response created an environment less favorable to Disney; 2) Forcing a whole workforce to move across the country, especially one full of "the best in the business" and know their value, is going to result in many not relocating, which can diminish your future product. 3) New leadership leads to new priorities. That means that Iger may have shifted the focus of those leading this move to other tasks.

Those were 3 distinct points, and I did not make a connection between the talent relocating and their beliefs or political affiliation.

Either way, I think you overestimate the amount of people who can fill those positions, maintain the company's standard, and are either already in (and looking for a job) or looking to relocate to Orlando. Either way, that's the math Disney is doing.

I mean; Yes, it is "a free country," but I wasn't arguing against that. They can leave the company. My point is Disney may have underestimated the amount of talent willing to relocate or available to switch companies. Universal Creative is building a whole new park at the moment, and the sister industry where themed design talent is frequently pulled from (film and television) are not located in Orlando.

I think you give Disney way to much credit.

Disney Uncreative has fallen from grace and the fall began when they stopped being creative and started trying to market their movies by intertwining them in every ride they already had operating.  That doesn't take all that much creativity; it's rather a marketing issue.  Ditto for remaking the same movies yet again and for ruining existing franchises.  And I think this all began when they changed "It's tough to be a Bug" to Bug's Life; I think that started it all.  That's when they threw in the towel and stated that their theme parks couldn't stand on their own merit with their own themes; the Dinosaur ride too.  That's when Nemo came in to the water pavilion at Epcot, when they stuck a stupid hand on Spaceship Earth with a wand for a few years, placed a giant Sorcerer Mickey cap in front of Mann's, changed out the Alien Encounter to  Lilo & Stitch theme, and removed the glass Epcot fountain monument at front and replaced it with a granite graveyard with peoples' lithographic photos.  They also built those cheap hotel properties that look like 1950's style beach or E. Colonial Drive motels with exterior hallways.

I think the hacks working at Disney merged creativity with creative marketing and fooled their bosses when they saw the gate numbers.  That doesn't make them creative to the point where they are irreplaceable.  I think people are way too used to this and just go with the flow.  And Disney gets a pass for lifting the torch of the gay community.

Creative = the Monorail system and how each hotel property at Seven Seas integrates with it; Spaceship Earth; The Contemporary; The Land; Space Mountain and the tram that takes you through it, Cinderella's Castle with a restaurant in it, mechanical robots within several attractions, and the Disney Mickey Ears balloons within balloons- did you forget about all that?  That stuff was creative.  And all that stuff (its development) went out with the early 1980's and Disney has been riding on the coattails of that ever since.

A least Universal created two attractions for Harry Potter, one in each park, and connected them and the two parks with a themed train.  At that point, the only thing Disney had on Universal aside from it's size was Spaceship Earth (IMO), the Monorail system with adjoining hotels, and Space Mountain along with that tram, and the Water Taxi system (which Universal also has).  Universal created the parking garage layout which Disney tried to copy at Disney Springs in recent years.   The Harry Potter attraction(s) to me was the main attraction for an Orlando visitor, on par with those others I just mentioned including the newer stuff.

I argued with @spenser1058about how the gay community would laud Disney overall and undeservedly so, over Universal.   It was like UCF vs USF.  So that's how you get the backing of the gay community: partake in activism, slap some tacky rainbows on structures, and they will laud you till they're blue in the face and meanwhile you continue to put out an average product that continually gets talked up as though it's still cutting edge.  Disney also opened up those mall stores that used to have quality merchandise.

Little girls want to get their photo with a princess, but they don't know any better, so Disney expands the palette of princesses by a ton- and that's who they market to.  At least when they started it was like a World's Fair or Columbian Exposition in spirit.  At least Universal has to try harder b/c they appeal to a tougher audience- THAT'S creative.  

This post went way over.  The bottom line is that anybody in the industry can work at Disney Creative at present.  Based on what Disney has put out per above in recent decades, those employees are a dime a dozen (unless they snagged them from elsewhere and they worked on the recent Star Wars attraction at MGM).

[prahaboheme]

Bigotry is bad for business. 
Florida will not become a state like CA, NY, MA, CT etc with the radical right at the helm pushing extremist policies like Don’t Say Gay and menstrual cycles. 

It’s funny that DeSatan is so keen on stealing jobs from all those places. Is that because Florida cannot just create those jobs on its own?

This idea pushed here by a few of you that talent will just show up is laughable at best. Let allow creating the breadbasket to expand the industry. 

[Poe Tempkin]

48 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Bigotry is bad for business. 
Florida will not become a state like CA, NY, MA, CT etc with the radical right at the helm pushing extremist policies like Don’t Say Gay and menstrual cycles. 

It’s funny that DeSatan is so keen on stealing jobs from all those places. Is that because Florida cannot just create those jobs on its own?

This idea pushed here by a few of you that talent will just show up is laughable at best. Let allow creating the breadbasket to expand the industry. 

Part of the reason I want these jobs to move here is to counter that very right wing trend. In a sense I want these people to help "California my Florida". We've certainly imported enough right-wing types at lately and we need some balance.

[prahaboheme]

22 minutes ago, Poe Tempkin said:

Part of the reason I want these jobs to move here is to counter that very right wing trend. In a sense I want these people to help "California my Florida". We've certainly imported enough right-wing types at lately and we need some balance.

Of those people are moving anywhere in the south it’s likely GA. Florida will not be that place. 

[uncreativeusername]

17 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Of those people are moving anywhere in the south it’s likely GA. Florida will not be that place. 

Throwing in my own two cents on the matter (without spilling too much of my personal life):

I'm a musician, and a teacher in a somewhat niche methodology that isn't well established in FL. I've been on faculty at a music school in Chicago for a decade now, but my long term dream was always to return to Orlando and share what I do with my hometown. In the past few years, that has become a non-option for me as a gay man - there is no way I would return to Florida in the current environment. (And please withhold any responses telling me that I'm overreacting or that I am in fact welcome - the point is that this is how DeSantis' policies have made me feel, and regardless of whether or not you agree with me, my feelings are my feelings.) I'm actually in a bit of a personal-life crisis because I have no idea what I want to do with my career in the long term with my biggest aspiration being crushed by DeSantis' alienating policies. 

[FLClarkKent]

1 hour ago, uncreativeusername said:

Throwing in my own two cents on the matter (without spilling too much of my personal life):

I'm a musician, and a teacher in a somewhat niche methodology that isn't well established in FL. I've been on faculty at a music school in Chicago for a decade now, but my long term dream was always to return to Orlando and share what I do with my hometown. In the past few years, that has become a non-option for me as a gay man - there is no way I would return to Florida in the current environment. (And please withhold any responses telling me that I'm overreacting or that I am in fact welcome - the point is that this is how DeSantis' policies have made me feel, and regardless of whether or not you agree with me, my feelings are my feelings.) I'm actually in a bit of a personal-life crisis because I have no idea what I want to do with my career in the long term with my biggest aspiration being crushed by DeSantis' alienating policies. 

After 20 years in Florida and over a decade in Orlando, I made the decision to relocate to New England for work, in large part to the reasons you described. I turned down several local job opportunities because I did not feel Florida was a welcoming place. Just my personal opinion, so take it for what you will.

[Alleri459]

1 hour ago, uncreativeusername said:

Throwing in my own two cents on the matter (without spilling too much of my personal life):

I'm a musician, and a teacher in a somewhat niche methodology that isn't well established in FL. I've been on faculty at a music school in Chicago for a decade now, but my long term dream was always to return to Orlando and share what I do with my hometown. In the past few years, that has become a non-option for me as a gay man - there is no way I would return to Florida in the current environment. (And please withhold any responses telling me that I'm overreacting or that I am in fact welcome - the point is that this is how DeSantis' policies have made me feel, and regardless of whether or not you agree with me, my feelings are my feelings.) I'm actually in a bit of a personal-life crisis because I have no idea what I want to do with my career in the long term with my biggest aspiration being crushed by DeSantis' alienating policies. 

As a gay man myself here in Orlando, it is always interesting to see what happens in day to day life versus the constant platform the media (news, social) provides and propels figures like DeSantis and the political theater they[his team] create. It pushes perceptions, it sells and it is succeeding, unfortunately. This isn't to dismiss your feelings, or anyone else's, they're real and valid. And an elected leader going rogue is never a good thing for anyone. 

[uncreativeusername]

6 hours ago, aleonrivera said:

As a gay man myself here in Orlando, it is always interesting to see what happens in day to day life versus the constant platform the media (news, social) provides and propels figures like DeSantis and the political theater they[his team] create. It pushes perceptions, it sells and it is succeeding, unfortunately. This isn't to dismiss your feelings, or anyone else's, they're real and valid. And an elected leader going rogue is never a good thing for anyone. 

I absolutely understand that the day-to-day reality is not necessarily so stark; I grew up in Orlando after all, and have generally looked at my formative years with gratitude for the level of acceptance I experienced relative to norms of the time. In the aftermath of Pulse, I also spent a lot of time defending Orlando as a very LGBTQ+ friendly place to my friends and colleagues who seemed unsurprised that such a tragedy occurred in Florida (which was in-and-of-itself a very hurtful layer of that experience). 

But regardless of the reality on the ground at this moment, I would not feel safe living in a state that is run by a leader with an authoritarian bent who uses the LGBTQ+ community as political fodder. Determining the moment at which things backslide in such an environment is an unpredictable game of Russian roulette in which I have no interest in taking part.

Edited February 5, 2023 by uncreativeusername

[aent]

7 hours ago, uncreativeusername said:

I absolutely understand that the day-to-day reality is not necessarily so stark; I grew up in Orlando after all, and have generally looked at my formative years with gratitude for the level of acceptance I experienced relative to norms of the time. In the aftermath of Pulse, I also spent a lot of time defending Orlando as a very LGBTQ+ friendly place to my friends and colleagues who seemed unsurprised that such a tragedy occurred in Florida (which was in-and-of-itself a very hurtful layer of that experience). 

But regardless of the reality on the ground at this moment, I would not feel safe living in a state that is run by a leader with an authoritarian bent who uses the LGBTQ+ community as political fodder. Determining the moment at which things backslide in such an environment is an unpredictable game of Russian roulette in which I have no interest in taking part.

I also live in Florida as a gay man, and DeSantis is a reason I'm staying put. He's made me feel free and more comfortable expressing myself, without worrying about violent reactions from those who have different opinions. Florida has been much more accepting of me and my ideas then other places I've had to work, including places like California. The media portrays DeSantis and Florida way differently then reality. I definitely feel DeSantis supports my personal choices more then these other places you've mentioned, and I don't feel I'm being used as a political pawn. I would not feel safe in a state where we did not have a free speech absolutist as governor, that is the most necessary thing for me to feel safe.

[jack]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:27 PM, aent said:

I also live in Florida as a gay man, and DeSantis is a reason I'm staying put. He's made me feel free and more comfortable expressing myself, without worrying about violent reactions from those who have different opinions. Florida has been much more accepting of me and my ideas then other places I've had to work, including places like California. The media portrays DeSantis and Florida way differently then reality. I definitely feel DeSantis supports my personal choices more then these other places you've mentioned, and I don't feel I'm being used as a political pawn. I would not feel safe in a state where we did not have a free speech absolutist as governor, that is the most necessary thing for me to feel safe.

What governor is that? The guy that keeps getting sued on 1st amendment grounds? 

DeSantis is horrible on the 1st amendment. He might be the worst governor in the nation when it comes to freedom of speech (or Newsome). And the idea that they both could be frontrunners in 2024 tells you a lot about our country. 

[jrs2]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:30 PM, uncreativeusername said:

I absolutely understand that the day-to-day reality is not necessarily so stark; I grew up in Orlando after all, and have generally looked at my formative years with gratitude for the level of acceptance I experienced relative to norms of the time. In the aftermath of Pulse, I also spent a lot of time defending Orlando as a very LGBTQ+ friendly place to my friends and colleagues who seemed unsurprised that such a tragedy occurred in Florida (which was in-and-of-itself a very hurtful layer of that experience). 

But regardless of the reality on the ground at this moment, I would not feel safe living in a state that is run by a leader with an authoritarian bent who uses the LGBTQ+ community as political fodder. Determining the moment at which things backslide in such an environment is an unpredictable game of Russian roulette in which I have no interest in taking part.

My friend, you have got to be kidding me.

PULSE:

First of all, there is no need to defend Florida or Orlando to your gay friends because of the Pulse incident, or, at least there wouldn't have be a reason to feel the need to defend it if our leaders and MSM called it for what it was.  They pushed the "hate crime" narrative and ignored the half dozen calls the shooter made into the local news stations pledging allegiance to ISIS prior to the incident.  I know this because one of the local anchors told me so.  And they had his Facebook as well.  Yet Obama, the MSM,  and that ilk decided to push this as a hate crime because the FBI and other agencies were influenced not to acknowledge that this was in fact a terrorism incident.  The guy even cased WDW and decided it was to tough to pull off.  

Florida did not create the culture that drove this extremist Arabic Muslim to commit that crime on Pulse; his ISIS allegiance did.  But the way everyone refers to Pulse, they leave it so nebulous so that the uninformed assumes it was a white male, probably Christian, gun owner that did this, when it was in actuality an Arabic extremist Muslim with his Arabic extremist Muslim wife as his accomplice.  And there are way more Muslims that live in Democrat controlled Michigan (Dearborn to be precise) compared to Florida, so it ain't a Florida thing as you opine; and it isn't the product of a Florida anti-gay culture.

So if you've got a bone to pick about Pulse, then get on a flight to the Middle East and Libya specifically and plead your case to a culture that would hang you in a public square if they ever found out about your gay lifestyle. . And that's where your analysis should end on the Pulse issue.  And then talk to your local leaders and ask them why they feel the need to keep pushing hate and intolerance narratives just to have political relevance.

DESANTIS:

Do you have a kid?

As for being gay, nobody is offended by gays ala their lifestyle; so the more power to you.  I'm eagerly awaiting the reopening of PH downtown.  Hello?  But the moment you become a groomer and start interfering with someone else's parental rights and authority, that's when the kid gloves come off and a "DeSantis" steps in, whether it's for political gain or not.  Because at the end of the day gays have no right to interfere with another's parental rights. PERIOD.  For that matter NOBODY has the right to interfere with another's parental rights, straight or gay.  

Stop acting like the innocent victim.  The Parental Rights Act was a REACTION to what gays and liberals were doing in schools to other peoples' kids.  And the MSM coined the term "Don't Say Gay," not DeSantis or any other republican or conservative or moderate.  "Political fodder?" Look no further than your own Party.  But that's what they do; they keep pushing until someone pushes back and then we have WWIII and liberal propaganda machine.  Gays are not being rejected by straights as your Party would have you believe- but they will push that narrative because they're not getting their way in schools.

What you should be doing is going to your liberal leaders and imploring them to stop interfering with others' parental rights. Period.  Then we could all just get along.

But please, no more victim cards.

14 hours ago, jack said:

What governor is that? The guy that keeps getting sued on 1st amendment grounds? 

DeSantis is horrible on the 1st amendment. He might be the worst governor in the nation when it comes to freedom of speech (or Newsome). And the idea that they both could be frontrunners in 2024 tells you a lot about our country. 

tell me you're not referring to the Parental Rights Act and the thing with UF's Board telling liberal teachers to stick to the curriculum and check their politics at the door.  

On 2/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, aleonrivera said:

As a gay man myself here in Orlando, it is always interesting to see what happens in day to day life versus the constant platform the media (news, social) provides and propels figures like DeSantis and the political theater they[his team] create. It pushes perceptions, it sells and it is succeeding, unfortunately. This isn't to dismiss your feelings, or anyone else's, they're real and valid. And an elected leader going rogue is never a good thing for anyone. 

I think the gay community needs to have an honest conversation on what started this whole DeSantis thing in the first place.

[uncreativeusername]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I think the gay community needs to have an honest conversation on what started this whole DeSantis thing in the first place.

The fact that you believe this is EXACLTY the reason I don't feel safe or welcome in Florida. 

For all the talk about the media distorting what DeSantis is doing, the way conservative media has convinced America of this fake threat against children is an extreme homophobic backslide.

Do I have kids? I am an educator dedicating my life to kids, so yes, I have 50 of my own "kids" and I care about them all deeply, and I wholly resent any implication otherwise. Child abuse is DISGUSTING, grooming is DISGUSTING, all of these things are DISGUSTING. But they are not "gay" problems, and it is absurd that this is becoming a remotely mainstream belief. And nobody is claiming parents shouldn't have the right to raise their children how they please. This is precisely what I mean when I say the LGBTQ+ community is being used as political fodder. Creating false enemies and scapegoats to divide a society is straight out of the authoritarian playbook. 

I have been extremely upset by some of the blatantly homophobic things that have been said on these boards in the past year; there has been an obvious uptick with the environment DeSantis and extremist conservatives have recently fostered. I've been on these boards since 2005 (and was a lurker before that), and I had to step away for several months last fall because I was so upset by a string of several unrelated homophobic conversations I saw in these threads. Maybe I was wrong to try and come back.

[ucfpatriot18]

I rarely comment on here, but this post from JRS2 is completely unacceptable.  It’s also absolutely offensive that you allude to gay people “grooming” children.   Shame on you.     
This isn’t Twitter and I expect more from this forum group.  

[uncreativeusername]

16 minutes ago, ucfpatriot18 said:

I rarely comment on here, but this post from JRS2 is completely unacceptable.  It’s also absolutely offensive that you allude to gay people “grooming” children.   Shame on you.     
This isn’t Twitter and I expect more from this forum group.  

THANK YOU, @ucfpatriot18. It's flat out hate speech.

(I really am deeply appreciative of your response. Part of the reason I took a break from the boards last fall was not just because of the homophobic comments I saw, but the lack of anyone stepping in to challenge them. I thought our community was better than this.) 

Edited February 6, 2023 by uncreativeusername

[jrs2]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:48 PM, prahaboheme said:

Bigotry is bad for business. 
Florida will not become a state like CA, NY, MA, CT etc with the radical right at the helm pushing extremist policies like Don’t Say Gay and menstrual cycles. 

It’s funny that DeSatan is so keen on stealing jobs from all those places. Is that because Florida cannot just create those jobs on its own?

This idea pushed here by a few of you that talent will just show up is laughable at best. Let allow creating the breadbasket to expand the industry. 

Let's just call it by it's official name, "The Parental Rights Act," and what it's designed to do and/or curtail.

Job Creation: Even when Lawton Chiles and Crist were governors, Florida was not then in the historic epicenter of industry and never was, like the NE and midwest have been.  Florida isn't even Texas, with the homegrown industry of petroleum.  But Florida did pay money to Burnham out of liberal CA to move here, they did for a minute, and they in turn took a dump on the state  

Talent?  So I was at a major liberal event recently at Full Sail and I was shocked that they told me that dozens of grads were currently being nominated for the Grammys.  EA has been farting out software for the better part of two and a half decades (and I think they've grown a bit too).

As for Disney?  You read my Lake Nona thread post (and I thank you for that).  Respect.  But if the out of state talent pool (the liberal out of state talent pool, that is) is offended by DeSantis and doesn't want to move to Florida, then there's a lot more going on (upstairs) of a more clinical nature.  I mean, did people ever say no to a scholarship to Harvard or Duke or any other fru-fru college because their reputation didn't comport with your (or my) lifestyle or political views?  No.  But if it is going on now, and if people are that sensitive, then Florida (and the local work force)  is better off without them; that causes way too many HR issues anyway.  

[jrs2]

43 minutes ago, uncreativeusername said:

The fact that you believe this is EXACLTY the reason I don't feel safe or welcome in Florida. 

For all the talk about the media distorting what DeSantis is doing, the way conservative media has convinced America of this fake threat against children is an extreme homophobic backslide.

Do I have kids? I am an educator dedicating my life to kids, so yes, I have 50 of my own "kids" and I care about them all deeply, and I wholly resent any implication otherwise. Child abuse is DISGUSTING, grooming is DISGUSTING, all of these things are DISGUSTING. But they are not "gay" problems, and it is absurd that this is becoming a remotely mainstream belief. And nobody is claiming parents shouldn't have the right to raise their children how they please. This is precisely what I mean when I say the LGBTQ+ community is being used as political fodder. Creating false enemies and scapegoats to divide a society is straight out of the authoritarian playbook. 

I have been extremely upset by some of the blatantly homophobic things that have been said on these boards in the past year; there has been an obvious uptick with the environment DeSantis and extremist conservatives have recently fostered. I've been on these boards since 2005 (and was a lurker before that), and I had to step away for several months last fall because I was so upset by a string of several unrelated homophobic conversations I saw in these threads. Maybe I was wrong to try and come back.

You've been upset?  Join the club.

if you are an educator then thank you for your service, as it is a very important job.  Yes, there are generalities being made- on both sides.  But, somebody is grooming; just because it isn't you (well, it isn't because you don't live in Florida) doesn't mean it isn't going on.  It may not be gays, but it's definitely liberals.  You don't like being blamed for grooming any more than a legal gun owner is looked badly upon because some thug shot someone with a gun.

And you guys really misuse and abuse the term "homophobia" and take it too far.  First of all, a phobia is a fear of something; like "xenophobe."  "Homophobe" should not be used when someone disagrees with things that some gays do or support but otherwise likes them; that is not homophobia.  I hate the rainbow on the Bandshell.  Is that homophobic or do I hate it b/c I have good taste?  Sometimes I feel straights are called homophobes just for being straight (you must hate gays otherwise you'd be gay).  I've heard that too.  Whatever.

But when Disney speaks out against the Parental Rights Act on behalf of its gay employees, you have to ask yourself why that Act was made in the first place.  Telling an outsider to stay away from your kid's brain is not homophobic.  There is no law or societal norm that says parents have to accept someone (liberal or gay or both) preaching to little Timmy or Jenny about those issues just so that they don't offend someone if they complain, because they may feel that their lifestyle is being rejected, hence use of the term "homophobia" in retaliation.  Really?    

I don't see anyone asking these core questions.  I only hear complaints.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, ucfpatriot18 said:

I rarely comment on here, but this post from JRS2 is completely unacceptable.  It’s also absolutely offensive that you allude to gay people “grooming” children.   Shame on you.     
This isn’t Twitter and I expect more from this forum group.  

What are you talking about?   You slam a governor and you slam an Act, but we ignore the host allegations that led to the Act in the first place?  You have got to be kidding me.   And what of all the First Amendment "suits" that were filed as a result of it?  Were they filed without merit by teachers and whomever?  You talk as though there isn't a conflict between parents, teachers and DeSantis.  The Act was passed for the reasons it was passed, and at the college level the UF teachers union expressed discontent for the new Board telling them to stick to the curriculum or they would be held liable to suit (per the new state legislation).  Maybe you should look into the truth of those allegations instead of slamming people who comment on it.  And maybe your attention should be focused on disavowing the people doing this stuff; not the people commenting on it.  You guys just continuously refuse to keep it real.  Amazing.

[FLClarkKent]

1 minute ago, jrs2 said:

What are you talking about?   You slam a governor and you slam an Act, but we ignore the host allegations that led to the Act in the first place?  You have got to be kidding me.   And what of all the First Amendment "suits" that were filed as a result of it?  Were they filed without merit by teachers and whomever?  You talk as though there isn't a conflict between parents, teachers and DeSantis.  The Act was passed for the reasons it was passed, and at the college level the UF teachers union expressed discontent for the new Board telling them to stick to the curriculum or they would be held liable to suit (per the new state legislation).  Maybe you should look into the truth of those allegations instead of slamming people who comment on it.  And maybe your attention should be focused on disavowing the people doing this stuff; not the people commenting on it.  You guys just continuously refuse to keep it real.  Amazing.

Doubt I’ll change anyone’s mind in an online forum, but here goes:

The “groomer” language is one of the oldest, and most dangerous, tropes levied against members of the LGBTQ community. Usually against gay men. Why is it dangerous? Aside from it not being true (children are far more likely to be abused by a heterosexual, and often a relative), it’s designed to dehumanize. Gays aren’t people, they’re dangerous predators out for your kids, so the trope goes. I grew up in the Deep South and I’ve heard variations of this all my life. I had thought we had moved past this, particularly in a state like Florida, which is a wonderfully diverse place. But to see this trope being wielded again, by a governor no less, is very disheartening.

Also, the legislation in question was so broadly written (by design), that it could apply to almost anything. There wasn’t a real problem to solve, it was just another battle in the culture war. Which makes it all just sadder.

[F-L-A]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

You've been upset?  Join the club.

if you are an educator then thank you for your service, as it is a very important job.  Yes, there are generalities being made- on both sides.  But, somebody is grooming; just because it isn't you (well, it isn't because you don't live in Florida) doesn't mean it isn't going on.  It may not be gays, but it's definitely liberals. 

Tell us more about these "definitely liberal" "groomers" of yours.  

I'm thinking it's not "definitely liberals" or gays who groom & abuse children, but I am convinced that you're definitely a homophobe who's been drinking way too much of the alt-right Kool-Aid. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by F-L-A

[jrs2]

47 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Doubt I’ll change anyone’s mind in an online forum, but here goes:

The “groomer” language is one of the oldest, and most dangerous, tropes levied against members of the LGBTQ community. Usually against gay men. Why is it dangerous? Aside from it not being true (children are far more likely to be abused by a heterosexual, and often a relative), it’s designed to dehumanize. Gays aren’t people, they’re dangerous predators out for your kids, so the trope goes. I grew up in the Deep South and I’ve heard variations of this all my life. I had thought we had moved past this, particularly in a state like Florida, which is a wonderfully diverse place. But to see this trope being wielded again, by a governor no less, is very disheartening.

Also, the legislation in question was so broadly written (by design), that it could apply to almost anything. There wasn’t a real problem to solve, it was just another battle in the culture war. Which makes it all just sadder.

thank you for that.  I wasn't aware of the history, and it is important to factor in.  And with that in mind, yeah, I agree with you on those points.  

that being said, there is transgenderism being taught in schools.  Nobody accused the gay community of sexual abuse of minors.  the only things that I've seen are what I posted on, mind you, in response to people vilifying DeSantis- and your post explains it- vilifying him for making a problem where there wasn't one.  Are you sure about that though, that its not a real problem to solve?  What is your data on that?  That's like saying that a complaining parent is complaining because they are an unreasonable homophobe.  Or, that there aren't any complaints.  Do you write them all off because of how they vote, or did he just make it all up?   I know for a fact how at the college and professional school level (not just at UF) professors preach all this liberalism and the recent "woke" culture and students are fed up with it.  And its no secret that the left tries to get them early on as well, on a variety of issues. 

You are applying an older concept but writing off the current issue as though it is based on a prejudice, unfounded by current facts or data.  I don't fault you for that but  you actually cleared up a point for me which is why the gay community is in such an uproar- they assume it is all unfounded.  They think that there was no fire to the smoke that led to the Act.  I get it.

[jrs2]

12 minutes ago, F-L-A said:

Tell us more about these "definitely liberal" "groomers" of yours.  

Bruh, I don't care about your list of 46.  Who made that list, the National Meme Union of Liberal Counter-Argument Conservative Haters?  

This isn't a competition.  

The point is you guys just want to discuss the crux of YOUR narrative.  DeSantis is ruining the state b/c of his alienating policies.  Oh, so he's alienating groomers.  Got it. And that's a...bad thing?  

Okay, so these Republicans are child molesters.  So if any of them are elementary school teachers, then the Act covers them too.  Still a bad thing?

All that being said, teachers are still preaching sex changes to minors, regardless of which aisle they're on politically.

[Poe Tempkin]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

As for being gay, nobody is offended by gays ala their lifestyle; so the more power to you.  I'm eagerly awaiting the reopening of PH downtown.  Hello?  But the moment you become a groomer and start interfering with someone else's parental rights and authority, that's when the kid gloves come off and a "DeSantis" steps in, whether it's for political gain or not.  Because at the end of the day gays have no right to interfere with another's parental rights. PERIOD.  For that matter NOBODY has the right to interfere with another's parental rights, straight or gay.  

Stop acting like the innocent victim.  The Parental Rights Act was a REACTION to what gays and liberals were doing in schools to other peoples' kids.  And the MSM coined the term "Don't Say Gay," not DeSantis or any other republican or conservative or moderate.  "Political fodder?" Look no further than your own Party.  But that's what they do; they keep pushing until someone pushes back and then we have WWIII and liberal propaganda machine.  Gays are not being rejected by straights as your Party would have you believe- but they will push that narrative because they're not getting their way in schools.

Just what is the gays' "lifestyle" in your view? Mere existence?

Seriously, your post reflects the totally unhinged nature of the MAGA-perverted Republican party. An educator does not "become a groomer" through simple acknowledgement of the existence of LBGTQ people. Nor do gay or transgender parents or the parents of a gay or transgender students interfere with some inalienable right of other parents to be bigoted when they participate in public life, to include in public schools. But that's what this is really about. MAGA types have had enough of stewing in their hatred and tolerating others. Consequently, they love a "Big Daddy DeSantis" to come in and tell all the nasty gays to pack their "lifestyle" back into the closet where it belongs. That's the real REACTION.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Poe Tempkin

[WAJAS]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

thank you for that.  I wasn't aware of the history, and it is important to factor in.  And with that in mind, yeah, I agree with you on those points.  

that being said, there is transgenderism being taught in schools.  Nobody accused the gay community of sexual abuse of minors.  the only things that I've seen are what I posted on, mind you, in response to people vilifying DeSantis- and your post explains it- vilifying him for making a problem where there wasn't one.  Are you sure about that though, that its not a real problem to solve?  What is your data on that?  That's like saying that a complaining parent is complaining because they are an unreasonable homophobe.  Or, that there aren't any complaints.  Do you write them all off because of how they vote, or did he just make it all up?   I know for a fact how at the college and professional school level (not just at UF) professors preach all this liberalism and the recent "woke" culture and students are fed up with it.  And its no secret that the left tries to get them early on as well, on a variety of issues. 

You are applying an older concept but writing off the current issue as though it is based on a prejudice, unfounded by current facts or data.  I don't fault you for that but  you actually cleared up a point for me which is why the gay community is in such an uproar- they assume it is all unfounded.  They think that there was no fire to the smoke that led to the Act.  I get it.

I'm trying to understand your argument.

What do you consider "transgenderism being taught in schools?"

What do you mean by "woke?"

What fire are you referring to? That caused this act to be required.

What does this act do against child molesters that previous ones didn't? I thought child molestation was illegal for a while now. On that, what do you mean by "sexual abuse of minors" in this context?

Lastly, are you okay with co-opting phrases and coining terms within this context? You seem to use them for your position (Groomer, woke, MSM, , but call others out for using their own (Don't Say Gay