Charlotte Arts Master Plan

[cltheel.sdl]

Flippin Sweet!!! I love it all! Very modernistic, this will all add a nice touch to the uptown streetscape!

[monsoon]

Man, I hope Parks Helms knows what he's doing here. He's been a champion of uptown, but I'm not so sure of this new strategy he's devised. Hopefully this accomplishes everything instead of killing it all. I know his intentions are good, but this stalling "threat" doesn't sit well with me. If he forces his hand and delays the county vote, you can forget about any Wachovia Tower renderings for months.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356381.htm

Ahh yes. I think I mentioned earlier the county council was not going to be so quick to pass this proposal even though the NC Legislature has given them the ablility to do so. CMS has become a big boat anchor around the county council's neck and until that problem is fixed in the long term, it is going to be hard for them to get anything else done.

[uptownliving]

Some notes from what I saw and heard at the City Council meeting tonight:

-Susan Burgess was just soooo giddy about this project. She was grinning from ear to ear, and fidgeting like crazy. I really was thinking she was going to pee in her pants. The rest of the council seemed to be in favor of this project but none of them matched Burgess's enthusiasm.

-Bob Bertges stated that the yellow color of the Mint is not the final color for the museum. He also noted that the Mint's exterior will be made out of precast concrete made to look like marble. The Terra Cotta will be on the Bechtler and the rendering has changed slighty from what we have currently, they have added more glass to the exterior. He mentioned that the Afro Am building is supposed to represent Jacob's Ladder and also a quilt. He said that the building matieral will look like the building was wrapped in a quilt. The quilt of course was used a lot to communicate during the days of the Underground Railroad.

- Wachovia wants to have 4 underground tunnels from the tower to Afro-Am, Duke Energy HQ, Bechtler, and 3 Wachoiva/Green. The city only thinks 2 tunnels would be needed...so they are still working that out.

-4 of the 6 Mecklenburg towns have already approved the Car Rental Tax Interlocal Agreement.

-The Mecklenburg County Commision is scheduled to vote on the Car Rental tax in late September.

-Over Half of the $80M Endowment for the Arts has already been raised by ASC

-There will be 19 contracts that will be refered to the City Councils Economic Development Cmte for them to flesh out and bring back to the full Council for approval in September.

-They hope to have final detailed renderings for the various buildings in October.

[AuLukey]

Quick question, are all these buildings being built simultaneously (pending full approval) or will they be built in stages? Was the October date given for all renderings or just the arts project?

[uptownliving]

My understanding is that they will all be built at the same time and will be completed by the end of 2009. The October date is for the Arts Projects renderings...the Wachovia tower was hardly talked about tonight other than refering to the $800M private investment.

[monsoon]

-4 of the 5 Mecklenburg towns have already approved the Car Rental Tax Interlocal Agreement.

Just a mention there are 6 towns in Mecklenburg, Pineville, Mint Hill, Matthews, Davidson Cornelius, and Huntersville.

[dubone]

I'm a little concerned that it still only "over half the endowment". The over half number was announced many months ago. Have they raised the endowment requirements, perhaps? Or is fundraising not really continuing as rapidly.

As to Susan Burgess, I really hope Parks makes her giddy about the other uptown projects. She is one who dismisses the Landswap because she is concerned about the appearance of the city building another arena, even though they wouldn't be. But the city would be paying for the museums, which were also rejected in the referendum.

They talked about how 3rd and 2nd Wards would develop anyway, so why do they need to put money into it. Because the watch and wait approach has worked so well over the last 4 decades. But of course, poor South Tryon street is a struggling spot that is much worse off than those other parts of uptown.

I read that in the powerpoint about the 4 bridges. I wonder if they realize just how silly it is to build a bridge under First Street. I can somewhat understand the others, especially if they are employee only. But even those seem a little unnecessary.

I'm pretty disappointed that the Mint will get concrete dyed yellow, but I suppose there are some advantages to that.

I wish Bertjes would tell of some of the environmental features of the buildings, if they really are still pursuing LEED certification. Maybe they aren't at that stage yet.

[monsoon]

Confusing the issue further, city residents will be asked to approve another unrelated city improvement bond package in the November election. I wonder if residents are going to worry about being taxed to death given the upcoming CMS bond package, and the county contemplating rasing the rental tax on cars. And a lot of people who live in the city will be affected by that.

[uptownliving]

I'm a little concerned that it still only "over half the endowment". The over half number was announced many months ago. Have they raised the endowment requirements, perhaps? Or is fundraising not really continuing as rapidly.

Fundraising hasn't officially begun yet...they will have the kickoff to the Endowment Campaign in October. Most of what has been raised so far is from BofA, Wachovia, and Duke Energy. The President of ASC stated last night he felt the $80M goal won't be hard for the ASC to reach.

[cinco]

As to Susan Burgess, I really hope Parks makes her giddy about the other uptown projects. She is one who dismisses the Landswap because she is concerned about the appearance of the city building another arena, even though they wouldn't be. But the city would be paying for the museums, which were also rejected in the referendum.

or she might be concerned that this landswap is pretty intricate and maybe she is just being cautious... if thats the case - i'm sure some here will agree with her.

as far as the arts package being compared to the original arts package that was bundled with the basketball arena referendum... is that a fair comparison? i don't know... i'm asking. i mean, while one would think that it was the arena (shinn) that was what killed that deal - it could be argued otherwise. though the components of the original arts package are not the same as the wachovia package... what is the cities cost? is it the same or more? i know on the original arts package there wasn't the huge corporate contribution, and i can't remember how the proposed cost would have been payed for.... was it a car rental tax?

[dubone]

Fundraising hasn't officially begun yet...they will have the kickoff to the Endowment Campaign in October. Most of what has been raised so far is from BofA, Wachovia, and Duke Energy. The President of ASC stated last night he felt the $80M goal won't be hard for the ASC to reach.

Good. I am a little sensitive about that after reading that they wanted to charge the higher amount of car tax and use the extra money for operations. That, to me, is contrary to the original compromise, and was a little sleazy.

I agree with you that all they have to do is try, and people will fund an endowment.

The funny thing (ironic funny) is that if they raise an $80m endowment for these little arts buildings, they will have almost double the endowment of UNCC (US News lists UNCC's endowment at 42,096,124...could that possibly be right?).

[dubone]

or she might be concerned that this landswap is pretty intricate and maybe she is just being cautious... if thats the case - i'm sure some here will agree with her.

as far as the arts package being compared to the original arts package that was bundled with the basketball arena referendum... is that a fair comparison? i don't know... i'm asking. i mean, while one would think that it was the arena (shinn) that was what killed that deal - it could be argued otherwise. though the components of the original arts package are not the same as the wachovia package... what is the cities cost? is it the same or more? i know on the original arts package there wasn't the huge corporate contribution, and i can't remember how the proposed cost would have been payed for.... was it a car rental tax?

No, it isn't fair. The new arts plan is worlds different than the original plan. But the new baseball plan is now mostly privately funded. And the arena was even different in how it was funded and the contracts on how the city would be protected from future greed.

I REALLY don't want to get into an arena debate. But if Turner and Burgess can use wording evoking the arena debaucle when it comes to the baseball++ plan, then it would at least be consistent to think the same for arts. At least baseball is now privately funded, except for some street-paint and sidewalks which the city would do no matter where they put baseball. The arts is now funded by a controversial tax on an unrelated industry. Yet, it deservedly gets lots of leadership respect. I'm just curious why the baseball+park+ward-revitalization effort does not get similar respect.

[monsoon]

I seem to remember they originally tied an arts package to the arena deal that got voted down by the public and that corresponding arts package died. It's interesting now, the county is requesting the current arts deal be tied to a baseball stadium. There might be more to this than what immediately comes to mind.

[atlrvr]

I'm just curious why the baseball+park+ward-revitalization effort does not get similar respect.

Because you left out two key words......"minor league"

[dubone]

Sorry. Baseball+park+minor league ward-revitalization.

[cinco]

Sorry. Baseball+park+minor league ward-revitalization.

^that's pretty funny.

well, i do think atlrvr is probably correct... but, moreover i think the voting public is still jaded by their democratic voice being trampled on (there was alot of that going on around 2000). IMO, i think the voting public begrudges the sports aspect of the old referendum and not the arts package that was attached. which brings me to the question - was the original, 8 acre, third ward park approved by public referendum? also, would the knights owners be paying for the uptown land to build their ballpark on? i'm not trying to get into a park/ballpark debate... but i would like to fully understand the recent political posturing - which is NOW effecting the timetable of the new arts plan.

[monsoon]

was the original, 8 acre, third ward park approved by public referendum?

It was, and specifically that referendum said that it would not include funding for baseball.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The funny thing (ironic funny) is that if they raise an $80m endowment for these little arts buildings, they will have almost double the endowment of UNCC (US News lists UNCC's endowment at 42,096,124...could that possibly be right?).

They got it wrong. The UNC Charlotte endowment is currently at $100m. That's 4th among the public colleges of NC.

[eastsider]

^that's pretty funny.

well, i do think atlrvr is probably correct... but, moreover i think the voting public is still jaded by their democratic voice being trampled on (there was alot of that going on around 2000). IMO, i think the voting public begrudges the sports aspect of the old referendum and not the arts package that was attached. which brings me to the question - was the original, 8 acre, third ward park approved by public referendum? also, would the knights owners be paying for the uptown land to build their ballpark on? i'm not trying to get into a park/ballpark debate... but i would like to fully understand the recent political posturing - which is NOW effecting the timetable of the new arts plan.

No, the 8-acre park was not part of the arena referendum, that was the proposed location for the arena. When the referendum failed, the county came in and purchased the land, which the city was no happy about.

The Knights would not be paying for the land but for the construction of the ballpark. The property comes from the land swap deal, which imo is a small price to pay for a top notch baseball stadium in uptown, even if it is minor league.

[dubone]

Thanks. I thought that couldn't be right. It is still fits under the category of irony that the handful of museums will have only 20m less endownment than a major UNC-system school. Hopefully it will inspire Mr Dubois to make a major push.

I want to see UNCC aiming high, like half a billion in endowment funds by 2010 or something.

As for the referendum on the park, it was only in the bond referendum that those bonds wouldn't fund baseball (which they won't), and would go for parks throughout the county. There was no stipulation on any park site, even though it was generally assumed that it would have to go on the 8 acre site, as the better site was unavailable at the time.

[monsoon]

As for the referendum on the park, it was only in the bond referendum that those bonds wouldn't fund baseball (which they won't), and would go for parks throughout the county. There was no stipulation on any park site, even though it was generally assumed that it would have to go on the 8 acre site, as the better site was unavailable at the time.

That is because the Knights tried to get a baseball stadium put up there at that time, and the only way the county thought a bond package would be passed, which allowed them to purchase the 8 acre site, was to make it clear there would be no baseball involved. While the bond package did not specifically exclude what could happen to it in the future, I think it jades the public trust in supporting bond packages when the government turns around and uses them for purposes they were not intended for.

[cinco]

It was, and specifically that referendum said that it would not include funding for baseball.

if thats the case, then mrs. burgess is doing her elected job by opposing the landswap... IMO. whether or not the swap is a good thing for center city is beside the point.... for all we know susan burgess may personally like the idea of AAA baseball in center city, but when she lays down to bed - she gets falshes of lynn wheeler in her mind.

unfortunately, i don't think the public is going to react the same way about this landswap deal... thus giving parks helms the upper hand politically. i say unfortunately, because it's unfortunate that the public have become apathetic to being screwed.

[dubone]

Um, that isn't what happened. I watched that very meeting when the baseball provision was added to the bonds. It was because a Mr. Bill James didn't want Parks Helms to sneakily use the park bonds to pay for a baseball stadium. If it was to keep baseball from that land forever, they would have added that wording.

If the wording doesn't say it, then that is not part of the contract. It is the reason that lawyers write fancy words in contracts, and why you can't just say it really meant something else.

That referrendum accomplished what Bill James wanted, which is that those county park bonds were off limits for paying for a baseball stadium. Once it passed, the Knights realized that unequivocably, there were no funds for a publicly funded baseball stadium. So they hired new people, and went to work in finding private investors. They have found them. All they are needing, now, is a lease to land uptown.

We can't extrapolate whatever we want from referendum results. Like, Mecklenburg county residents never want another school built in the county again, just because they voted down the last bond package for schools.

Also, in a republican democracy, there are times when things change, and other avenues are explored. In the case of the arena/baseball/arts, it no longee needed the new tax that was originally being sought from the state. So, it was reworked.

[cinco]

wow. after reading all these posts - i stand by my earlier assertion that the landswap is very intricate and politically requires caution.

regardless, it "gets my goat" that this topic is even being discussed here. a week ago we were having a party in this thread with the released renderings... then comes parks helms... OL' BUZZ KILL.

[dubone]

I love the Jacob's Ladder and Quilt imagery of the African-American Cultural Center. It evokes the symbols of the struggle to overcome the unfair blockades that the democratic processes put up against them. The referendum tried to keep them down, where they could only be free in their rickety old church. But now they are free. Free to seek new shelter and glory on the richest street in the city.

Okay, maybe slavery doesn't parallel too well with an odd-year unbinding referendum.

We can go back to the party now .