Retail Downtown

[mgreven]

This is the problem when a certain few take it upon themselves to decide for the rest of us what downtown needs and doesn't need.

[winjer]

This is the problem when a certain few take it upon themselves to decide for the rest of us what downtown needs and doesn't need.

[GRDadof3]

AMEN! That's why I wonder how else we can make our voices heard and let them know that not everyone thinks like them... It's their thinking that makes me worry that we'll never have the downtown that I (we?) envision someday. It sounds like they're thinking that downtown should be like a small town downtown of yesteryear, not like the "big-city" downtown that that many of us aspire to and hope for.

[Rizzo]

How well are some locally owned businesses doing out in the suburban malls?

[Veloise]

...

Plus a quote you'll love...

I guess the developer of Cherry Street Landing thinks it costs $39 to park...

[AlexPKeaton]

She also is worried that chains may displace local equivalents

[Mark Miller]

I talked with Sharon Evoy and she is definitely of the opinion that chain stores would hurt some of the potential character of downtown neighborhoods. She says that chains often have specifications for their buildings that can conflict with the existing architecture that we all love. She also is worried that chains may displace local equivalents, and water down the character of our unique downtown. But she does acknowledge the density and credibility arguments and made it clear that the Downtown Alliance will take all comers.

[torgo]

The chains, if they absolutely have to locate somewhere, will adhere to standards....provided that these standards are in place and that they are fair and equitable and spelled out. The question of what those things are can be flushed out in the public process.

[Explorer55]

Lakewood, Colorado (major, "inner-ring" suburb of Denver) has created a downtown where there wasn't one before. Knocked down a dying mall to do it. The retail is currently a mix of chain and locally-owned. The developers have made a point of supporting local retail or other unique stores and businesses. It hasn't always worked (some have not lasted long), but others seem to be doing well.

If you want to read more, go here: http://www.belmarcolorado.com/index_flash.php

[EGR-ARCHI]

I have worked with a good many national chains over the years, and although many do have developed prototypes for suburban settings. Most are willing to drastically change or simple start from scratch when it comes to a downtown, dense urban setting. A good local example would be CVS. They have prototypes that they use for there suburban stores, but take a look at there store in Eastown, on the corner of Lakeside and Wealthy. You will see a building which attempts to be sensative to its urban setting, and helps to maintain a streetscape.

[tracer1138]

Exactly. I have told numerous times that most developers, small and large, aren't too terrible concerned about the standards. They just want clear, standards that will make the process as painless as possible.

[markrumsey]

Having attended way too many conferences that have analyzed this issue from fiscal to social angles it really has little to do with what anyone wants to see happen versus what our actual market will support. The Local First movement is not only about supporting local business but it is about trying to shift consumer preference to local products and services. This effort is, and will continue to have some success but will by no means represent the entire market base. Great retail urban centers around the country are successful because they reflect the desires of consumers in their retail make-up. The current state of our consumer preference includes national chain retailers, so to create a destination shopping district without them would be impossible. However, the potential of creating a locally owned retail sector that draws from the local population is possible but maybe not to the scale some would desire.

I see one of the biggest errors in retail in the city, inclusive of downtown and neighborhood business districts, is a misunderstanding of the potential market. Too often local residents are disregarded as a viable market. If you look at the demographics you will find a huge unmet retail need in our city, unfortunately we are not getting entrepreneurs that understand how to fill this market.

[Explorer55]

I have worked with a good many national chains over the years, and although many do have developed prototypes for suburban settings. Most are willing to drastically change or simple start from scratch when it comes to a downtown, dense urban setting. A good local example would be CVS. They have prototypes that they use for there suburban stores, but take a look at there store in Eastown, on the corner of Lakeside and Wealthy. You will see a building which attempts to be sensative to its urban setting, and helps to maintain a streetscape.

[GRDadof3]

I just read my hard copy of the Business Journal's Street Talk, and I'm speechless. No wonder Deb Lambers left downtown GR. The Business Journal's last sentence on this leaves one thing missing: despite whether we have a GAP or Apple downtown now to even worry about, the mere fact that the people who are the biggest players in downtown retail are essentially BOYCOTTING national retailers speaks volumes. And I don't think the use of BOYCOTTING is too strong of a word. I ask again: how is that retail strategy working for you guys? I'd give it a generous D-.

Seriously, what "character" of downtown retail are they protecting? There's nothing to protect. It's dead.

[MJLO]

I must have stepped into this conversation to late, I don't understand what you mean Jeff.

[GRDadof3]

I must have stepped into this conversation to late, I don't understand what you mean Jeff.

[torgo]

If I wanted to go to the Gap, and I emphasize if, I would go to the mall,

[Veloise]

...

If you don't want chains in a traditional downtown, why do the downtown areas with the most people and best shopping have national retailers in them? Yeah, no one wants that. That's why all those people are there shopping.

Seriously though, I don't think anyone is advocating filling every spot around downtown with crap you find at the mall. But what if a large national retailer filled a slot? Is she seriously telling me that it would ruin the character of downtown? What would get ruined? What planet is are these people on?

She's right, downtown GR will never be a retail experience like you see in other locations, especially when you exclude every multi-million dollar company who might want to set up shop here. This is absurd.

[Yankee Fan]

If you don't want chains in a traditional downtown, why do the downtown areas with the most people and best shopping have national retailers in them? Yeah, no one wants that. That's why all those people are there shopping.

Seriously though, I don't think anyone is advocating filling every spot around downtown with crap you find at the mall. But what if a large national retailer filled a slot? Is she seriously telling me that it would ruin the character of downtown? What would get ruined? What planet is are these people on?

She's right, downtown GR will never be a retail experience like you see in other locations, especially when you exclude every multi-million dollar company who might want to set up shop here. This is absurd.

[joeDowntown]

With people like this in key positions, I'm surprised we're experiencing any growth. Downtown retail is barely breathing. I can't believe they would draw a line in the sand with ANY retail operation at this point. Let alone retailers that you see in cities that do have vibrant retail downtown.

I cannot believe Kayem Dunn, the CHAIR of the DDA would make such statements. She's not only thumbing her nose at national retail, she's waving her middle finger.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

Has anyone contacted these people yet to express our displeasure? Active participation in this is the only way to get it solved. And trust me, it is a PROBLEM that needs to be solved. As someone mentioned in the Comerica discussion, passive participation in Grand Rapids' revitalization will result in massive failure, with all of the hard economic realities at work in Michigan putting pressure on Grand Rapids. If we don't swim hard upstream, we're sunk. Don't get lulled into the false belief that Healthcare Hill and River House will come to downtown's rescue, like so many other people seem to think.

For one thing, I would say that to get a GAP in downtown GR is not a valid argument because that's not what anyone (or very few) are talking about. GAP's only set up single stores in downtown areas with extremely strong demographics, like Lincoln Park in Chicago. In fact, they may not be even doing that anymore, and just concentrating on following the herd to the lifestyle centers. So GAP (or a "GAP-like store) is out anyway and shouldn't even be considered, even though Kayem Dunn has decided to insult them anyway.

Apple on the other hand would be a good store to try and lure to downtown. Apple might be satisfied with their early results at Woodland, because frankly that store is always packed. Who is Apple going to put out of business? They could easily fit into a myriad of first floor spots like 50 Louis, Rock Kauffman's old place or Monroe Center, without ruining the "character" of those buildings. Or they could build new on Ionia or move into the ground floor of 240 Ionia or the Fulton/Division project.

Coldstone Creamery, another strong possibility. They'd be a great tenant in the ground floor of the Kendall Bldg. Who are they going to hurt? How about a CVS, Walgreens or Rite Aid for just basic necessities? They would not only serve downtown residents, they'd serve visitors, workers and students too. How about a Chico's or Talbots? I don't see them putting Little Bohemia out of business.

And lastly, what about a Meijer downtown?

[suydam]

With people like this in key positions, I'm surprised we're experiencing any growth. Downtown retail is barely breathing. I can't believe they would draw a line in the sand with ANY retail operation at this point. Let alone retailers that you see in cities that do have vibrant retail downtown.

I cannot believe Kayem Dunn, the CHAIR of the DDA would make such statements. She's not only thumbing her nose at national retail, she's waving her middle finger.

Joe

[ccbarnes]

Has anyone contacted these people yet to express our displeasure? Active participation in this is the only way to get it solved.

[GRDadof3]

Does anyone have e-mail addresses of these people?

Also, who would it be best to complain to? Other than 'everyone'!!!

List them and we'll get some action here....

[Veloise]

...

It also might not hurt to get Jay Fowler's input on this:

Jay Fowler

Grand Rapids DDA Executive Director

...

It goes without saying, but be constructive and offer good ideas, and don't just go on a rant (like about the Keep it a Secret campaign). Don't be surprised if they ask you to get involved, and GET INVOLVED.

Jeff