winjer

For fun, I've updated my imagined streetcar/BRT route map! The dark green line is the proposed first segment.

I like this argument. This is one way (in addition to, say, their consummate connection to the neighborhood) the homeless (and other irritating personalities for that matter) add "character"--not so much via their presence, which can be a bit of a pain but is rarely dangerous, but in the way they scare off some other elements which, to me, are irritating and undesirable in their own right: rich pricks, hicks, boring chains, expensive condos, $10 martini bars, etc. That'll be the fate of South Ionia, which is fine, because the more's the merrier for downtown as a whole, but for South Division let's keep some grit. I also know some wonderful, neighborhood-enriching, not-so-good-at-making-money characters who are able to live there (in subsidized apartments) only due to Dwelling Place's vision for the neighborhood as a multi-income jungle/paradise.

Hey, is it possible to have a cigarette at ANY of these places? You would think if there's 10 coffee shops at least one would have a smoking section. I'm guessing the answer is no, so I'll be sticking with Common Ground.

Seattle builds a streetcar: The Seattle line will share road lanes with automobiles, except at the lake, where the tracks go inside the park instead of on congested Valley Street. Streetcars will have priority to cross at traffic signals. But if the streetcars are spaced 15 minutes apart, and mingle with traffic, people might as well walk, skeptics say. Licata faults the city for not emulating Tacoma, where the streetcar runs in its own median right of way. In Seattle, supporters got political traction by proposing the cheaper in-street design.http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/loca...reetcar21m.html

I was recently in downtown Ypsilanti and they still have this sh*t, pardon my French, covering up the fa

It ends in a very industrial area next to the former Butterworth dump, (future city park). It turns north and terminates on Butterworth.

Knape has an interesting point to make on his blog: Now I know, GrDad is right and buses aren't streetcars (the bit about the motion of buses is spot on), but it is interesting that we have this actual operating program that approximates a 3-line system--a completely free system, no less--and we don't even realize it or advertise it as such. Or does that actually show how right GrDad is?

I think we're basically on the same page here. Perhaps a rule of thumb should be something like: stay on the street when there is a business center within 1 mile. Try to find a high-speed dedicated ROW when the distance to the next business center is more than 1 mile. Still the nicer option in my opinion is the dedicated bus/streetcar lane. This would mean getting serious about public transport--i.e. making car traffic worse so that the public transit can be better.

If we're talking commuter rail I can see what you're saying--use the expressway median. But I'm still thinking streetcars running through urban areas here--they need to be visible, accessible, and should go right in front of businesses...so they pretty much have to be in the existing roads, don't you think? In residential areas it's a different story...but where do you find the ROWs anyway? What if we had dedicated bus/streetcar lanes? I know a lot of these roads seems to be going to 1 lane in either direction, anyways, just for the sake of traffic calming. (Plainfield and Fulton east of Fuller, for example.) I assume the streetcars will be flipping lights too, which would help. Nobody's expecting them to go faster than a car in traffic...but they have to be able to compete. Another thing...how do the stops for these things work? Are they on medians right in the middle of the road?

OK, I've revised the route as GRDad suggested: Here's an even more ambitious zoom-out:

I see that both directions sometimes combine into the same track. I guess that's a cost saving measure for routes that aren't going to see a lot of cars all at once. The isolated corridor thing works well for areas dominated by other infrastructure as opposed to destinations...you want to get through there as quickly as possible. But I would argue that you wouldn't want that elsewhere--the whole idea is to put the businesses, traffic, people, and streetcars all in the same glorious urban landscape. I see that the South Gibbs extension turns into what looks like a standard single rail and then abruptly ends, but it looks like there's some development right at the terminus, in what looks like a former industrial area next to the river. Woohoo, this is fun. Can someone please give my map to the Rapid big-wigs.

Yikes, those are some large radius turns. I see that the track changes to the outer lane every time it makes a turn. That's probably why opposite-bound tracks are a couple of blocks apart, eh? I was in Toronto last summer and the tracks there don't do that, instead they make a horrible scrape/screech noise at every turn. You seriously think the whole thing is about to derail for the first 5 times you hear it.

Might there be an argument for avoiding loops (i.e., instead, squashing loops into lines) so that folks can always plan on going in either direction without having to remember which road is which way? Pearl would work well as a replacement for Monroe Ctr. in that 'Monroe Ctr.-S. Division' line....but having it on Monroe Ctr would be 'picture perfect' don't you think? If the streetcar can flip lights it might actually speed up traffic on that road...well on the other hand it might be too cramped for tracks in both directions, considering its a one-way right now and I wouldn't want to lose any parking there.... OK, let's make it 'Pearl-S. Division'! I can hear the robot (or conductor?) voice now: "Transfer to ... Wealthy-Eastown"... sounds nice, doesn't it!

I've thought a little bit about the proposed streetcar route. I think it makes a lot of sense as an start, and if/when the promised economic returns materialize, several additional lines suggest themselves. I came up with the following system, which connects the heart of downtown with all of the important surrounding neighborhoods. It could be done in phases, gradually replacing inner-city bus lines. Take a look and let me know what you think:

Division would be a great choice. As far as having only 1 driving lane...the city has already been doing this to several other major roads. Four lanes are converted into bike lanes+regular lanes+center turn lane. this has happened on Fulton east of Carlton and Plainfield north of Creston neighborhood. It's a traffic calming measure!