Downtown Projects & Developments

[hub-city]

Looks like they are starting to do some site work at the new QT at the corner of Pine and St. John. I guess they are tearing that building down. Does anyone know if they are keeping the fountain?

[Spartan]

For all these reasons, the best thing that could happen to this area is for the City to somehow acquire some of these properties, tear down the motel between E. Main and St. John, realign that segment of Pine Street to take out the bend (run it through where the motel is now), and use the space freed up where Pine is now for improved parking and access for the strip mall, Fed Ex, Chamber of Commerce, or some new development. Wishful thinking, I know!

So quick to tear things down...

Improving traffic flow is a secondary priority at best. The traffic flow at that intersection is fantastic. I've been through it at all hours of the day, even at rush hour, and even then it's still pretty good. If you want to see congested intersections then come to Charlotte.

The pedestrian accessibility at that intersection is horrible. The #1 priority must be improving the infrastructure people first, especially in the downtown area defined in the urban code. If we make the area more safe, comfortable and friendly for pedestrians we make a truly walkable environment, everything else that we want for that area will fall into place (pedestrian friendly shops and restaurants in those buildings). Again, and I cannot stress this enough, vehicular traffic is not the priority in downtown.

Because Pine Street is also SC Highway 9, SCDOT owns that road. As a result, the State could buy the parcels on the northeast and southeast corners and the intersections could be widened. At first that sounds like a bad idea- making the distance that people have to walk to get across the intersection even longer. However, a slight widening would give you the ability to create a needed, dedicated left turn lane for southbound traffic and install a large, planted median which would allow for pedestrian refuge and actually improve that area for pedestrians. By breaking up a wide intersection in to smaller chunks, it can actually be quite comfortable for pedestrians to negotiate an intersection.

Take a look at the intersection of Woodlawn Rd & South Blvd in Charlotte. This isn't perfect, but it's a good example of what I'm describing.

I'm sure this is just a misrepresentation, but aren't the parking spaces at the rear of the site going the wrong direction? The others seem to suggest one-way traffic and then the rear spaces suggest one-way traffic in the other direction. Odd.

Also, is Howard Street one way? If not, then those parking spaces are also angled the wrong direction... who is their site planner? No matter what stage in the design process you're in, those kind of details should always be correct.

Otherwise, the project looks really neat!

Howard St is two-way operation. The concept is called "Reverse-angle parking" -sometimes called "back-in angle parking." It's a relatively new concept, so not many cities have installed it yet. It's actually a much safer way to operate angled parking. No matter what parking arrangement you have, you have to back up at some point, be it before or after you park. For example, if you were to parallel park, you'd go in reverse into your space, then pull out into traffic when you leave. This is no different. When you back into a space like this, your doors open toward the sidewalk making it easier to get in and out of your car and load/unload kids; your trunk faces the sidewalk, making it easier to load goods from the market; and most importantly, when you're leaving, you pull forward into the street which makes it easier to see oncoming vehicle and bicycle traffic, making it safer for them too. Reverse-angle parking is a win-win situation for everyone.

I really like the concept of this market, and the location too. I really want that area and Cleveland Park to become the "next Hampton Heights."

[new prospect]

Because Pine Street is also SC Highway 9, SCDOT owns that road. As a result, the State could buy the parcels on the northeast and southeast corners and the intersections could be widened. At first that sounds like a bad idea- making the distance that people have to walk to get across the intersection even longer. However, a slight widening would give you the ability to create a needed, dedicated left turn lane for southbound traffic and install a large, planted median which would allow for pedestrian refuge and actually improve that area for pedestrians. By breaking up a wide intersection in to smaller chunks, it can actually be quite comfortable for pedestrians to negotiate an intersection.

Great idea! And given the number of large trucks that use Pine Street to get from the Camp Croft area and Union County (Dollar General, Disney, etc.) to I-85, maybe SCDOT will take notice.

[westsider28]

Ha! SCDOT has shown time and time again that they couldn't care less about pedestrian facilities on their roadways. Plus, they're broke.

You know how Pine changes between 3 and 2 lanes each way at East Main? Well, have it change at St. John and you can add pedestrian refuges at Pine & Main and Pine & St. John. That can be done with the current road width. There are several other possibilities, but this one is the simplest.

And I think the current no-left-turn onto E. Main from southbound Pine should remain. You can just turn left at St. John for thru-traffic, and then right on E. Main if you want to go anywhere on that tiny stretch of Main between St. John & Pine. We don't need unnecessary thru-traffic on that part of E. Main (that stretch should be road-dieted w/on-street parking anyway).

Edited February 20, 2012 by westsider28

[Sparkleman]

I was speaking with a local small business owner the other day and he had a few nuggets to offer as far as what all was going on behind the scenes in downtown Spartanburg.

1) The city is really looking to try and get a big company to relocate off the interstates to downtown. Right now the word is they are really pushing hard for CH2M (Lockwood Greene). The problem is where to put them. Either incentives have to be given for new construction similar to QS/1 or there is talk of renovating the Montgomery Bldg. To be renovating that thing would be a hugh undertaking and the cost would be out of this world. For starters the building doesn't even have central air, but thats a discussion for another day.

2) Look for OTO Hotels to move into the old Extended Stay Hotels building. The ESH name is already off the building and has been replaced with "One Morgan Place". GDJ owns the building and is having it being renovated and updated. The word is the building is very dear to him. Most of the OTO guys should like this as most were ESH guys before GDJ sold it off. Look for GDJ's newest venture American Credit Acceptance to move in where OTO was or maybe not, see below.

3) The Bell Hill building that used to house WJB Video (GDJ's old franchise of Blockbuster Video) and now houses a ton of employees for ACA is being worked on as well. I passed by today and it looks like some sort of new construction is taking place adjacent to the main building. I didn't get close enough to see, but will check it out later.

GDJ is only is his mid 60's so look for him to really step up and drive Spartanburg's downtown growth (if he can) even more so than he already has.

4) The old Frank Hall tire building across from Papa Sams has been partially torn down. I had heard the Hub City Coop grocery was going in there but cannot confirm if that is still the case.

Has anyone else heard any of this stuff?

[roads-scholar]

I was speaking with a local small business owner the other day and he had a few nuggets to offer as far as what all was going on behind the scenes in downtown Spartanburg.

1) The city is really looking to try and get a big company to relocate off the interstates to downtown. Right now the word is they are really pushing hard for CH2M (Lockwood Greene). The problem is where to put them. Either incentives have to be given for new construction similar to QS/1 or there is talk of renovating the Montgomery Bldg. To be renovating that thing would be a hugh undertaking and the cost would be out of this world. For starters the building doesn't even have central air, but thats a discussion for another day.

In my opinion, GDJ is the only guy with the bucks, the vision, and the moxie to pull off a successful Montgomery Building renovation.

2) Look for OTO Hotels to move into the old Extended Stay Hotels building. The ESH name is already off the building and has been replaced with "One Morgan Place". GDJ owns the building and is having it being renovated and updated. The word is the building is very dear to him. Most of the OTO guys should like this as most were ESH guys before GDJ sold it off. Look for GDJ's newest venture American Credit Acceptance to move in where OTO was or maybe not, see below.

3) The Bell Hill building that used to house WJB Video (GDJ's old franchise of Blockbuster Video) and now houses a ton of employees for ACA is being worked on as well. I passed by today and it looks like some sort of new construction is taking place adjacent to the main building. I didn't get close enough to see, but will check it out later.

GDJ is only is his mid 60's so look for him to really step up and drive Spartanburg's downtown growth (if he can) even more so than he already has.

4) The old Frank Hall tire building across from Papa Sams has been partially torn down. I had heard the Hub City Coop grocery was going in there but cannot confirm if that is still the case.

Has anyone else heard any of this stuff?

Edited April 3, 2012 by roads-scholar

[westsider28]

Great article today about the revitalization efforts on the Northside. Check out the article for details, but here are a few highlights:

The City and community partners have formed the Northside Development Corp. to purchase many abandoned homes. Crimes reported in the area have dropped 40% in the past 5 years due in part to the "weed & seed" program. Cleveland Elementary will be re-branded The Cleveland Academy of Leadership and work toward improving academics and instilling community pride in students. In mid-April, organizers will announce a partnership with Atlanta-based non-profit Purpose Built Communities to begin master planning.

Good stuff. I hope the effort continues building momentum.

[spartanburgh]

Thats great news Sparkleman!!! I think that Downtown would be getting close to the critcial mass necessary to drive more regional shops/restaurants etc. If a couple more large white collar employers would locate in the CBD. In other words development would beginto drive development and we would see some of the other missing pieces start to fall into place. Thanks for the update!!

Edited April 7, 2012 by spartanburgh

[westsider28]

The City will be announcing "significant" new sustainability initiatives this Friday at 10 AM in front of the former ESA building (now One Morgan Square). The timing makes sense with Earth Day this weekend. No idea what these initiatives may consist of. There's a Facebook event page about the announcement.

[Spartan]

Wow, CH2M/Lockwood Greene relocating downtown would be a major coup for downtown. It would be great to have a large, stable company like that locate there.

I'm also digging the rename of ESA to "One Morgan Square." I'm still not a huge fan of that building from an urban design standpoint, but at least it's name is an improvement... one that can stand the test of time.

[westsider28]

City Council just voted to close the TK Gregg Center and put the operating cost savings into a capital fund to build a new recreation center on the Northside within five years. There was some opposition (Linda Dogan & Robert Reeder voted against the plan), but building a new center allows the City to pursue avenues of funding that would be unavailable for just renovating the old center.

Also, Council approved relocating a renovated Southern Railway caboose to the Hub City Railroad Museum (Magnolia Depot). It should be moved there in about 6 weeks. I think that's really cool and something that will definitely attract more visitors.

Herald-Journal article

[Sparkleman]

Wow, CH2M/Lockwood Greene relocating downtown would be a major coup for downtown. It would be great to have a large, stable company like that locate there.

I'm also digging the rename of ESA to "One Morgan Square." I'm still not a huge fan of that building from an urban design standpoint, but at least it's name is an improvement... one that can stand the test of time.

That building is GDJ's pride and glory. He and my Dad go to the same church and he was telling my Dad in Sunday school how glad he was to be able to reobtain it. He said he put everything into it that he loved and loved about Spartanburg. He said that they are going to renovate parts of it and fill it back up in the near future.

Have you ever been it it Spartan? It is truly amazing and like night and day compared to the piece of crap ESH works out of now in Charlotte.

[Spartan]

I haven't been in it, but I would expect no less from Mr. Johnson. He definitely worked to make sure that building was the highest quality. If we could just get him to understand a little more about urban form, then his buildings would be very close to perfect, IMO.

[Sparkleman]

Well we can't be choosey. My wife and I were just talking about GDJ last night and really if not for him, we would be on the decline and not the rise with Milliken gone. We really need to start thinking about the future because after George is gone, who will take the lead? Jimmy Gibbs has poured a lot of dough in the city also, but he is about the same age as GDJ.

[roads-scholar]

Well we can't be choosey. My wife and I were just talking about GDJ last night and really if not for him, we would be on the decline and not the rise with Milliken gone. We really need to start thinking about the future because after George is gone, who will take the lead? Jimmy Gibbs has poured a lot of dough in the city also, but he is about the same age as GDJ.

Agree. These men are great benefactors to the city. Let's not quibble over design; at least they are doing something.

[Spartan]

Here we go folks. QT is going to build a gas station at the corner of Pine and St. John.

Herald-Journal article

And get this, they submitted site plans (and got them approved) in May of last year, which is before the Urban Code took effect on July 1. They didn't even own the property yet at that point, oddly. So basically, QT can do whatever they please there. So, in addition to the inevitable traffic nightmare, the gas station will be typical suburban fare (oh yeah, but with nicer landscaping).

Why do they want to build so close to downtown anyway? Are there any other cities that have a QT right downtown? Is there anyway for the City to stop them from building here? I can't say I'm too fond of QT. I feel like they're oversaturating the market here, as well.

Well, that's enough venting for now. Words cannot express my displeasure with this development.

Prior to this thread I had never heard of a QT gas station, and quite frankly I never thought I would have anything else to say on this topic. I recently went to a QT to see why people are making such a big deal about it, and I have to say that for a gas station I'm pretty impressed. It is a very European approach to a gas station. They have fresh food of good quality and selection, decent coffee choices, and some outdoor seating. I bought a fruit cup that was better than the same kind that I buy at the grocery store.

In terms of urban form as these stations relate to our downtown core they are terrible. But it occurs to me that they could serve to fill a public need too. As most of you know, one of Spartanburg's primary challenges is the poverty in some of the in-town neighborhoods. Grocery stores have gone out of business in those areas over the years, leaving many people who do not own cars with out access to fresh food. Those people often rely on convenience stores for that purpose. The QT's in and around downtown could help address some of those needs since they provide a far better and healthier selection than any other gas station.

[Sparkleman]

Prior to this thread I had never heard of a QT gas station, and quite frankly I never thought I would have anything else to say on this topic. I recently went to a QT to see why people are making such a big deal about it, and I have to say that for a gas station I'm pretty impressed. It is a very European approach to a gas station. They have fresh food of good quality and selection, decent coffee choices, and some outdoor seating. I bought a fruit cup that was better than the same kind that I buy at the grocery store.

In terms of urban form as these stations relate to our downtown core they are terrible. But it occurs to me that they could serve to fill a public need too. As most of you know, one of Spartanburg's primary challenges is the poverty in some of the in-town neighborhoods. Grocery stores have gone out of business in those areas over the years, leaving many people who do not own cars with out access to fresh food. Those people often rely on convenience stores for that purpose. The QT's in and around downtown could help address some of those needs since they provide a far better and healthier selection than any other gas station.

Are the prices comparable to a grocery store or more to C-stores where the mark up is insane.

[roads-scholar]

Prior to this thread I had never heard of a QT gas station, and quite frankly I never thought I would have anything else to say on this topic. I recently went to a QT to see why people are making such a big deal about it, and I have to say that for a gas station I'm pretty impressed. It is a very European approach to a gas station. They have fresh food of good quality and selection, decent coffee choices, and some outdoor seating. I bought a fruit cup that was better than the same kind that I buy at the grocery store.

In terms of urban form as these stations relate to our downtown core they are terrible. But it occurs to me that they could serve to fill a public need too. As most of you know, one of Spartanburg's primary challenges is the poverty in some of the in-town neighborhoods. Grocery stores have gone out of business in those areas over the years, leaving many people who do not own cars with out access to fresh food. Those people often rely on convenience stores for that purpose. The QT's in and around downtown could help address some of those needs since they provide a far better and healthier selection than any other gas station.

Check out QT's recently opened store on West Main. It replaced an abandoned car dealership that was an awful eyesore. Its a huge improvement!

Personally I'm delighted that a retailer is putting up outlets in the city. Sure, I'd love to see an attractive office building at the corner of North Pine and St. John but the bottom line is it ain't going to happen, at least anytime soon.

[Spartan]

Are the prices comparable to a grocery store or more to C-stores where the mark up is insane.

I recall thinking the prices were reasonable. Probably a little more than grocery stores, but that's the nature of that type of business.

[hub-city]

I've switched to their gas and my car loves it! Nice modern stores and very helpful. Have you tried the touch screen coffe/expresso counter. I love pushing buttons.

[vicupstate]

I went to the new QT on Wade Hampton in Greenville and it was easily the most impressive Convenience store I have been in. Very courteous staff too. They are opening a location on the edge of DT Greenville and I am much happier about that now that I see what they have to offer.

[gman430]

This is good to see: http://www2.wspa.com/news/2012/jun/22/city-wants-revamp-west-main-street-downtown-sparta-ar-4023715/

[westsider28]

I like the idea, but I'm disappointed that no on-street parking seems to be included in the plan. Patrons of RJ Rockers, Main Street Pub, and Cribbs currently park in the grass and sidewalk on W Main, so the parking is needed. The city always points to ample parking in decks as an "excuse" to not put in street parking, but few people use the decks (I do). You really need to have both options (see: Greenville, Asheville, Columbia, Charleston, Raleigh, etc).

On-street parking--beyond adding parking nearby--also has the advantage of creating a buffer between the sidewalk and road, which both slows vehicular traffic and makes pedestrians feel more comfortable. I really think on-street parking should be included; all they have to do is re-stripe the road. They do NOT need a landscaped median there. That's more appropriate for a large thoroughfare, not a low-speed urban street.

Herald-Journal article

Edited June 23, 2012 by westsider28

[westsider28]

So, I e-mailed someone with the city about this streetscaping project. Apparently, this section of West Main is SCDOT maintained, so angled parking is a no-go. However, they are including 7 parallel parking spaces in the project. The H-J article did not make this clear. Here is a rendering they sent me:

This project should have a big positive impact on that stretch of West Main (aesthetically, if nothing else).

[Spartan]

Wow, thanks for the sleuthing westsider!

That street design is really the best we could ask for.