Traffic Congestion and Highway Construction

[ellifyno]

Latest estimate (1/31/2015) on NCDOT Construction Progress Report is 5/22/2015 for 100% completion. They will probably announce an opening date (or delay) soon.

 

EDIT: Just saw the revised completion date of 7/20/2015. It's possible it will be open to traffic before then, with any remaining signage, final lane markings, etc. taking place at night.

 

Feels like it could open any day now, but this seems about right. The following was from an NCDOT representative at a recent meeting in Harrisburg:

 

9. When is I-485 scheduled to be complete?

 

The contractor’s current schedule is indicating June 2015. The remaining work on this project is also weather dependent. The contract completion date is July 21, 2015.

[dubone]

I think they are given until July before fines, but they may well be done in early summer.

[AuLukey]

Im wondering what the time disparity will be between "open" and "complete" if the target right now is June.  I know work continues on well after the interstate is open.  Much like the recent 85 widening, the lanes were open but the cones and workers were still there several months afterwards.  I just can't wait until it opens.  I won't even need to drive on it, but it will save me ample time in the mornings and afternoons by alleviating the traffic both by where I work and where I live tenfold.

[southslider]

Reliable sources are saying June 15

[tozmervo]

The final 5.7-mile segment of the Charlotte beltway should open in late May or early June, depending on the weather, DOT spokeswoman Jordan-Ashley Walker said.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/traffic/article16464026.html

[Eightane]

The final 5.7-mile segment of the Charlotte beltway should open in late May or early June, depending on the weather, DOT spokeswoman Jordan-Ashley Walker said.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/traffic/article16464026.html

 

Colour me shocked if they're finally accounting for weather. It seems like so many road and/or transport project openings have at times been pushed back for weather issues, as if they never take into account that it rains and/or snows and/or gets cold here. Or the estimates beforehand are generous for PR or political reasons.

[AuLukey]

Sounds about right.

 

From an update I received today on the Prosperity-Hucks area plan:

 

 

I-485:

Charlotte Outer Loop construction is scheduled for completion in the May timeframe.

[southslider]

Would be nice to open in time for the big race weekend.

[dubone]

Colour me shocked if they're finally accounting for weather. It seems like so many road and/or transport project openings have at times been pushed back for weather issues, as if they never take into account that it rains and/or snows and/or gets cold here. Or the estimates beforehand are generous for PR or political reasons.

Have you ever worked on any type of project?  Home reno?  Technology project?    Things happen during projects that are not foreseen.  Weather is the most obvious variable that is not even foreseeable, and affects road construction because of conditions for proper concrete curing.    

 

When you drive somewhere on some incredible 4 lane divided freeway through the Appalachian Mountains, there will never ever be a time when you say, "I was so disappointed that this road 1 month late and 2% over budget."   But if they pour the concrete in the wrong conditions and it deteriorates, you would say all the time "who built this terrible road" 

 

 

No one likes projects to get delivered late.  Some project manager somewhere is having a bad day when they get that news.   But a few months in the scheme of providing significant infrastructure that will serve millions over 50 years lifespan is not really a big deal.  

[tozmervo]

Wasn't this stretch of 485 also not due to be built for two or three more years anyway? The Bev administration pushed for this to start construction well ahead of the budgeted schedule.

[Eightane]

Have you ever worked on any type of project?  Home reno?  Technology project?    Things happen during projects that are not foreseen.  Weather is the most obvious variable that is not even foreseeable, and affects road construction because of conditions for proper concrete curing.    

 

When you drive somewhere on some incredible 4 lane divided freeway through the Appalachian Mountains, there will never ever be a time when you say, "I was so disappointed that this road 1 month late and 2% over budget."   But if they pour the concrete in the wrong conditions and it deteriorates, you would say all the time "who built this terrible road" 

 

 

No one likes projects to get delivered late.  Some project manager somewhere is having a bad day when they get that news.   But a few months in the scheme of providing significant infrastructure that will serve millions over 50 years lifespan is not really a big deal.  

 

True, but it's about the fact that weather is maybe the most *easy* thing to assume as a variable that can muck things up. It's almost guaranteed to be a hamper at some point, but by that same token certain things happen here with regularity, it's the nature of patterns (subfreezing nights often in winter, rain often between March/April and early August). If it gets to where four out of five road projects that DO get delayed name that issue overall - they come right out placing blame there - it leads me to wonder if contractors around here (or those they answer to) are familiar with climate patterns in this part of the country.

 

It's not a question of if delays are understandable, of course they are; it's a question of if the time tables they provide in the first place are realistic. There's something to be said for not 'trying too hard' for good publicity by swiftness if you don't allot for extra wait in case the trends move a little out of place or surprise you. Tack another two or three months onto the end-timeframe by default and see if a great portion of news reports about openings pushed back don't vanish.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Eightane

[Spartan]

Wasn't this stretch of 485 also not due to be built for two or three more years anyway? The Bev administration pushed for this to start construction well ahead of the budgeted schedule.

 

That's right. Other thing to consider are 1) the project schedules more than account for this type of delay, and 2) this project is design-build so any unreasonable or significantly long delays hurt the contractor's bottom line big time and still save the state money in the long run.

 

The thing that never made sense to me is that they committed to the original December date so far in advance and really stuck to it until the last second.

[jednc]

You should always under promise and over deliver. Road contractors never seem to get that.

[tozmervo]

Under promising looses the job.

[Eightane]

Ah yeah, there's the clincher of the real world. If they didn't all strive to underbid each other (or if they ALL chose to tack on that extra) this would be feasible.

[jednc]

Under promising looses the job.

Right. But over promising should come with some consequences. Instead, they just blame the weather and then people on message boards try to justify the excuse.

 

edit: just to be clear, I'm just adding my response to your post because that's where it would fit. I completely agree with your point.

Edited March 31, 2015 by jednc

[cowboy_wilhelm]

I believe the torrential rains during the late spring/early summer of 2013 had a significant impact on the schedule. If I recall correctly, the I-85 widening to Concord got delayed around that time and never caught up.

[elrodvt]

Apologies if this was discussed prior but I've never lived anywhere with so little enforcement of the HOV lanes. I don't drive that much since I work at home but when I do I constantly see abuse and it appears to be getting worse since I first noticed it. Kind of makes them useless.

[ah59396]

Apologies if this was discussed prior but I've never lived anywhere with so little enforcement of the HOV lanes. I don't drive that much since I work at home but when I do I constantly see abuse and it appears to be getting worse since I first noticed it. Kind of makes them useless.

 

 

Agree.  It's very frustrating to watch 1 guy in a truck in the HOV lane blast by a state trooper with no recourse at all.  And I see it often on my commute up 77 everyday.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article17721551.html

 

The decision makes sense in light of the regulatory hurdles in order to use these as carpool lanes.  

 

While it is a shame that it was not fully considered to immediately do the HOV lane (or was it, but not budgeted for?).   But it makes perfect sense to me to wait the few years for Express Toll lanes given the risk of simply shifting the bottleneck of a general purpose lane. 

 

In my mind it is the same as lining up at a McDonalds.  Just because there is "pavement" between those queues doesn't mean you should use it, because it makes the process to get to the next step even slower.    There will always be a bottleneck because freeway-commuting is a very inefficient and expensive transportation design.   But express toll lanes are far better at managing the flow to prevent piling up at the end than the general lane people might think they want. 

[dcharlotte]

You can't expect three heavily traveled lanes to merge down to two lanes seamlessly, just like you can't expect four lanes to merge down to two. I hate how the Charlotte Observer clearly states that this would 'ease traffic' when there is no indication it would. It would only cause more of a bottleneck, which would move traffic through this area slower, causing more traffic at the end of the bottleneck. 

 

If you don't want to sit in traffic on I-485, then don't live an area that requires you to commute to your suburban job on the corridor. If the schools, quality of life, etc, etc are all as good as you say, then that's the price of living in this area - learn to cope. 

[15895]

Yeah. I hate 77 Northbound when it goes from 4 lanes to 2.

Because so many people try to ride out the end of the ending lanes before getting over which causes traffic to grind to a halt

[southslider]

Getting over closer to a lane's end when done like a zipper (every other car) is proven to cause less of a backup than everyone getting in a queue well before lanes merge.

[tozmervo]

Yeah - I remember seeing some traffic study a while back that said basically that. The problem is one of physical capacity, if everyone "pre-merges" you end up with 2 lanes backed up 5 miles, but if people wait to merge and use the lanes until they end, you end up with a backup of much less length. 

[elrodvt]

plus there is zero enforcement of HOV lanes in Charlotte.

Yeah - I remember seeing some traffic study a while back that said basically that. The problem is one of physical capacity, if everyone "pre-merges" you end up with 2 lanes backed up 5 miles, but if people wait to merge and use the lanes until they end, you end up with a backup of much less length. 

and more gunshots. ;-)