COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot

[Cotuit]

The company is not getting tax concessions from the city.

[mental757]

back to the height - is the 22 stories on top of the 522 car parking garage?? If it is - we could indeed see this building get close to the 340 feet Cotuit has posted...

[basachs]

Another thing I noticed from the Projo article was the fact that the Fogarty Building is now "will be developed soon" instead of "developed into a hotel" like the first report. Must have been some old copy., cut and paste will get you everytime!

[RLucas83]

The scale looks a little off in those renderings. The existing Hilton has 12-14 floors, and this building would have 22. The tan shaded Hilton addition appears to be double the existing Hilton height, meaning 24-28 floors, which would mean taller than the Empire, when the Empire appears double that of the Hilton addition... So either the Empire looks overstated, or the surrounding buildings are very understated (shrunk). Itd be nice if the Hilton tower (24-28 floors) plan gets resurected!

[Griswald]

"The mayor said he has asked developers to create a design for the building that is consistent with the surrounding area." - Projo article

OK....so what does that mean? We have a neo-classic library, a soon to be renovated early 70s civic center, a re-skinned 60s hotel, a postmodern cliche (Blue Cross), some typical historic Providence commercial buildings and a brutalist/modernist concrete & brick highrise apartment complex.

So how about creating a design that is consistent with the TIMES, and expresses the technology and construction methods & materials of today. I think that would be consistent for the area. Just take a look at those renderings from the London forum - that city has plenty of great historic architecture, and now they are designing buildings that showcase current technology and aesthetics.

[AriPVD]

I was told by the Mayor's office that this design is merely conceptual, intended to show appropriate size and scale and by no means a detailed design reflecting massing, etc.

[Mij]

My thought

1) The building will be a little smaller then the new westin tower. Does this create a second skyline, or just a cluster of larger buildings?

2) I wonder what will become of the current bc/bs building should they become the tenent. We know at this point that the fogety building is not being developed into a hotel, it makes me wonder what kind of job a hotel developer could do with the current bc/bs (main building accross from convention center).

3) If a developer were to come and redesing the current building, would a retail level along the skirt of the building give it an appeal to pull foot traffic away from the mall during conventions and into LaSalle Sq. and on,

4)The only concern that I would have is with that idea, would be a status quo with office space rather then adding to it.

5) just kinda finishing my ramble, I've been reading alot about banks such as the Scottland Yard Group (Citiznes) Selling off all of the branch locations then leasing them back from the buyer. I see BC/BS doing the same with their current portfolio of properties. What I wonder is since TPG has such a large foot print in the power block area does this alomost gaurentee them that property, and if so, will the old circle gas station land ever become anything more then pavement?

[mr2448]

back to the height - is the 22 stories on top of the 522 car parking garage?? If it is - we could indeed see this building get close to the 340 feet Cotuit has posted...

There is a difference on ceiling heights between office and hotel buildings. Hotel floors tend to run 2-3 less in height than office buildings. Add this height to the parking garage (any of it underground?) and usually a high ceiling 1st and/or second floor, we could indeed see 340 feet. Also, it will be located at the beginning of Westminister Hill adding another 30-40 feet to its placement on the Providence skyline.

Mark

[CtownMikey]

do tenants usually claim space before it is built... and if so, and the space gets "claimed" before construction even starts, could they go higher?

[Garris]

My thought

1) The building will be a little smaller then the new westin tower. Does this create a second skyline, or just a cluster of larger buildings?

I'd bet neither... I just think it'll continue, along with Sierra Suites, Grants Block, etc to continue to fill out the skyline and just make things appear denser... Especially with 110 going up, nothing will distract from what the "center" of town is for some time, if ever...

2) I wonder what will become of the current bc/bs building should they become the tenent. We know at this point that the fogety building is not being developed into a hotel, it makes me wonder what kind of job a hotel developer could do with the current bc/bs (main building accross from convention center).

3) If a developer were to come and redesing the current building, would a retail level along the skirt of the building give it an appeal to pull foot traffic away from the mall during conventions and into LaSalle Sq. and on,

I've been wondering about the BCBS building myself. I asked in another thread who owns it... I'd love to see a wintergarden added to the West end of the building and the base designed for some ground level retail. A hotel in the BCBS building is an interesting idea if indeed BCBS is the occupant of the Empire...

...will the old circle gas station land ever become anything more then pavement?

My guess is probably not , at least not until the next boom cycle of Providence building... Then again, if the power block is fantastically successful, who knows?

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

maybe when we change the zoning ordinance and the comp plan so that you get penalized for surface parking will it become anything.

[Garris]

maybe when we change the zoning ordinance and the comp plan so that you get penalized for surface parking will it become anything.

Is this legally and practically possible? I'd love to see that happen.

What can we do in the planning and zoning process that's about to happen to encourage people to develop their lots? What's possible?

- Garris

[jencoleslaw]

Is this legally and practically possible? I'd love to see that happen.

What can we do in the planning and zoning process that's about to happen to encourage people to develop their lots? What's possible?

- Garris

you make it costly for them NOT to develop or sell. when it costs more to sit on property than it does to market or develop it, we'll find there's a lot fewer surface parking lots and empty buildings all of a sudden. Surface lots and vacant buildings and lots can be taxed at a different rate for starters, as an "underutilization" of property. We can use eminent domain if necessary, especially if we need things like schools or public buildings. (i am not in favor of taking land and then handing it over to a private entity)

it means getting lots of people in on it because you need state legislation, i think, to change how the city collects $ in taxes, but frankly i'd like to see someone like joe pavalino go up to the state house and justify his parking lots in downtown providence.

[Lone Ranger]

I was told by the Mayor's office that this design is merely conceptual, intended to show appropriate size and scale and by no means a detailed design reflecting massing, etc.

Well that's something to be thankful for.

I hate slabs. If you need that much floor space, go upwards. Proportion is everything -- well, almost everything. OK, well it's important.

[Cotuit]

will the old circle gas station land ever become anything more then pavement?

My guess is probably not , at least not until the next boom cycle of Providence building... Then again, if the power block is fantastically successful, who knows?

I think it behooves TPG to develop that block. A high end hotel (the Hilton) can only be so high end with a surface lot in front of it. TPG is banking thier reputation on the Power Block, they want to be able to show it off nationally. They are working to bring business to Providence to fill it. When they bring clients from other cities to Providence to see all of their success, they will not want that black eye sitting in the middle of it all.

I wouldn't be surprised to see it go another year, or even two without a solid proposal, but they are going to need to build something there eventually. If E@B proves successful, they'll put an office tower there. If the big three Downtown and MetroLofts prove successful, we'll see a new proposal for residential there, or we'll see a mix.

[damus]

I wouldn't be surprised to see it go another year, or even two without a solid proposal, but they are going to need to build something there eventually. If E@B proves successful, they'll put an office tower there. If the big three Downtown and MetroLofts prove successful, we'll see a new proposal for residential there, or we'll see a mix.

New tallest, perhaps? It'd really give Providence a boost in profile to have two large clusters like that. It's important that there's walkability, but the wow factor does help.

[runawayjim]

New tallest, perhaps? It'd really give Providence in profile to have two large clusters like that. It's important that there's walkability, but the wow factor does help.

i think a new tallest would look odd there... it's already up on a hill giving it a taller look to begin with. but something in the 25-300 foot range wouldn't be bad. you at least haev to make the people living in oneten feel special for living in the new tallest for a while before you take that away from them.

[Lone Ranger]

i think a new tallest would look odd there... it's already up on a hill giving it a taller look to begin with. but something in the 25-300 foot range wouldn't be bad. you at least haev to make the people living in oneten feel special for living in the new tallest for a while before you take that away from them.

110 would still have the views.

[CtownMikey]

http://www.procgroup.com/featured-projects...t-broadway.html

[CtownMikey]

""TPG's downtown properties also include the Fogarty Building at 111 Fountain Street, The Westin Providence Hotel and The Residences at The Westin Providence, currently under construction, and the Holiday Inn, which is being converted to a Hilton Hotel and recently won the Hilton Hotel's best conversion award.""

the hilton must be reallllly nice

[Cotuit]

the Holiday Inn, which is being converted to a Hilton Hotel and recently won the Hilton Hotel's best conversion award.

That's weird, word on the street is that the Hilton wasn't happy with the Holiday Inn, rumors were flying about the building not getting the brand. Rumors are funny.

[basachs]

""TPG's downtown properties also include the Fogarty Building at 111 Fountain Street, The Westin Providence Hotel and The Residences at The Westin Providence, currently under construction, and the Holiday Inn, which is being converted to a Hilton Hotel and recently won the Hilton Hotel's best conversion award.""

the hilton must be reallllly nice

Ha! They aint winning it for the outside thats for sure, so the inside must be super. Having never been in the Holiday Inn, I cant compare though.

[Griswald]

I think TPG made up that award.

[basachs]

I think TPG made up that award.

I am sure it is on really high quality paper stock though. Complete with a gold sticker.

[DaveRPI]

There is a difference on ceiling heights between office and hotel buildings. Hotel floors tend to run 2-3 less in height than office buildings. Add this height to the parking garage (any of it underground?) and usually a high ceiling 1st and/or second floor, we could indeed see 340 feet. Also, it will be located at the beginning of Westminister Hill adding another 30-40 feet to its placement on the Providence skyline.

Mark

weybosset hill