COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot

[BJE]

I'll throw in my two favorites from Chicago, 225 Wacker and 333 West Wacker:

333 West Wacker

225 Wacker

I think I'd like 225 Wacker better for this spot, though it might look kind of dull in the sky with the Superman building being the closest tower to it.

And like Cotuit said, in the end, if the relationship with the street is right, then who cares what the tower looks like.

In what manner does 333 Wacker appraoch the street? It's always a tipoff when these photos crop out the intersection with the ground plane that the building has zero relationship with its site and the city around it.

I don't have a big problem with Modern architecture except that it has historically ignored context and been mostly an exercise in abstract form-making instead of tangible place-making. That said, I think Providence could definitely benefit from some contemporary design that is well-detailed at street level; the city already plenty of Postmodern "brick and stone" buildings. GTech is a good try but maybe just a little too nondescript on the facades that face the streets (I like the side that faces Waterplace, though).

For example, Hartford 21, by CBT Architects of Boston, is a good building that has both detail and interest at street level and a simple tower above, and is clearly an up-to-the-minute building rendered in today's materials. Sure, the tower's a little bland, but it looks fine from a distance; similarly, the street level may not be to everyone's taste, but it puts up a good street wall and is carefully detailed. It's not a landmark building, but it is a strong contributing building to a CBD that is trying to transform itself from an office park into something more truly urban.

Here's CBT's website, and I am in no way affiliated with them, although I did apply for a job there when I got out of college (I didn't get the job, obviously). http://www.cbtarchitects.com/main.html

BJE

[Lone Ranger]

Now, see, I say about this site what some people said about Parcel 12: with the site's proximity to the highway, and with the city's ambitions for LaSalle Square and the Proc plans for the PowerBlock, this is a location that just screams for a signature project, IMO. To be honest, I wouldn't mind the building as depicted in the news broadcast, if only it were being built somewhere else -- say, the parking lot next to Citizens. But here, I'd like a little more pizzazz.

FWIW, I like the H21 design, too. But corporate towers seem to be a case where beauty depends strongly upon the eye of the beholder. And that's only in those instances where there's something to be said for originality or a flair for the distinctive. So many corporate towers are are downright ugly, and so many of them are simply bland.

Although I continue to hope for the best, I can't admit that I have high hopes for this building, judging by all the buildings where BCBS currently resides downtown, sorry to say.

[Cotuit]

From Sabin Street

From Fountain Street

[brick]

That's not horrendous, although it is kind of ambiguous with how it will relate to the street.

[runawayjim]

i think they should put the glass building on top of the current building.

[RLucas83]

Those renderings dont look too bad, they seem to have several design features to get rid of the "box" look.

I disagree with putting the glass on top of the current building as you have two totally different styles. It'd look like those early renderings of the Masonic Temple hotel plans where they had the glass part on top that just looked hiddeous.

[Cotuit]

i think they should put the glass building on top of the current building.

I like that in theory, and it is what Duany proposed when he did his last charrette here, but I see a few problems with that.

First is simply scale, maybe if the current building was 6 or 8 stories tall it would look OK with a tower popping out of it, but I think it will be bit weird to see such a large tower coming out of such a short building. It could work if they did a significant setback from the LaSalle Square face (which may drive the building height higher, which wouldn't be bad). Also, the building doesn't fill the lot, so you'd have a corner of the building with this historic base, and the rest with either a facsimile of that base, or something modern.

I'm also concerns about the structural integrity of the current building. From a short distance it looks OK, if a bit dirty. But up close you can see the facade is riddled with cracks and pits. I'm not sure what the facade is made of, somesort of stone? I don't know if those cracks and pits could be filled in such a way that they would dissappear, or if you would always see those scars.

It is also unclear if that cracking and pitting is indicitive of some structural flaw with the way the facade is attached to the building. I'm assuming it's not a stone building, but rather a steel frame with a stone facade (I could be wrong). If the cracking and pitting is a result of some failure in the way the facade is attached to the frame, removing all the stone and fixing that attachment could prove to be prohibitively expensive.

[Lone Ranger]

Those renderings dont look too bad,

Those rendering also carefully avoid showing the building from the long sides, which will be entirely the issue as they will be the most prominent view of the building from the highway and LasSalle Square as well as from Downcity. Going back to the Ch12 renderings -- which, I thought, were supposed to be purely conceptual, what happened to that? -- you can see where the real trouble lies:

It's just a very long, very blue, very boring facade. If they would only excise some of the width on this tower and add the space back in height, I'd probably like the damn thing.

[mental757]

well, perhaps it's BLUE for a reason...

[Lone Ranger]

Well no kidding, but it's not the color that's the issue, it's the shape.

[mental757]

I see your point - maybe I'm just feeling more like 'a beggar can't be a chooser' with this one - I just want it to get build ASAP and get some commercial/corporate infusion into the city...

[runawayjim]

I see your point - maybe I'm just feeling more like 'a beggar can't be a chooser' with this one - I just want it to get build ASAP and get some commercial/corporate infusion into the city...

i think the article said it wouldn't go up until like 2010...

[Magellan98]

i think the article said it wouldn't go up until like 2010...

I think that is the completion date.

[mental757]

right - complete in 2010 - not too soon IMHO...

[Claremorris]

notice that you can see size of what the new Hilton addition will look like from these renderings.....pretty decent

[runawayjim]

right - complete in 2010 - not too soon IMHO...

now going along with the works that's been done on the current buildings... wouldn't that put the start date in 2007-2008?

[glassandsteel]

I seriously hope I'm not coming off as an anti-modernist but I still think this design is a big disappointment. I posted once (when I first started coming here) that the thing that killed me about some designs that are called "modern" (but lack any real distinction minus the glass) is that it looks like anybody that can hold a ruler straight could have drawn it. This falls into that category. There are a million little things that you could throw into this to give it some character. Anything to seperate it from everything else. I'm still hoping that they come to us with something invigorating. Have it come in in grades, use another material in addition to glass, some interesting cuts and angles into the shape, an interesting night-time lighting scheme, some detail! If our sense of place is one of our greatest assets then what sort of sense does it make to have a generic skyline? BTW, what do you think this will look like at night?

[runawayjim]

I seriously hope I'm not coming off as an anti-modernist but I still think this design is a big disappointment. I posted once (when I first started coming here) that the thing that killed me about some designs that are called "modern" (but lack any real distinction minus the glass) is that it looks like anybody that can hold a ruler straight could have drawn it. This falls into that category. There are a million little things that you could throw into this to give it some character. Anything to seperate it from everything else. I'm still hoping that they come to us with something invigorating. Have it come in in grades, use another material in addition to glass, some interesting cuts and angles into the shape, an interesting night-time lighting scheme, some detail! If our sense of place is one of our greatest assets then what sort of sense does it make to have a generic skyline? BTW, what do you think this will look like at night?

considering how rough these sketches are, i'm going to guess it'll have a bit more in the final draft of it than just straight boring lines... i like the newer look that cotuit posted better than the originals, but it's still very rought looking.

[CtownMikey]

From Sabin Street

From Fountain Street

i love the building... but this render does not match the height of the video snapshots that cotuit posted... and it doesnt look as tall as the westin.. I am guessing this render is the incorrect one as far as height goes

[Frankie811]

Dosen't it bother anyone that this building is facing North & South instead of East & West.? It's looks like it is turning it's back on the whole city. Let downcity see the main facade of this building, not just it's side. And why is it going to take almost 4 years to build? Toxic waste clean-up + demolition? And why is the garage to be built 1st?

[Lone Ranger]

I seriously hope I'm not coming off as an anti-modernist but I still think this design is a big disappointment. I posted once (when I first started coming here) that the thing that killed me about some designs that are called "modern" (but lack any real distinction minus the glass) is that it looks like anybody that can hold a ruler straight could have drawn it. This falls into that category. There are a million little things that you could throw into this to give it some character. Anything to seperate it from everything else. I'm still hoping that they come to us with something invigorating. Have it come in in grades, use another material in addition to glass, some interesting cuts and angles into the shape, an interesting night-time lighting scheme, some detail! If our sense of place is one of our greatest assets then what sort of sense does it make to have a generic skyline?

Exactly. Well said, on all counts.

BTW, what do you think this will look like at night?

Actually, because of the blue, I would probably be happier with this building at night than I would during the day. Yeah, I kinda think it could look all right, especially if that visor thing on top were lit up brightly, as I imagine it would be.

[Garris]

I seriously hope I'm not coming off as an anti-modernist but I still think this design is a big disappointment... There are a million little things that you could throw into this to give it some character. Anything to seperate it from everything...

I think a big problem in issues like these (and not just for Providence, but for all modern architecture) is that, as far as I know, there is no regional modern architecture? What is contemporary, modern New England architecture. What is contemporary, modern Mid-Atlantic or Northwestern architecture?

What is modern, contemporary Providence architecture? What is unique to us in a fully mainstream fashion that says "Providence" and nothing else?

What can Empire be that doesn't blandly, banally, and in theme-park like fashion reinterpret the designs of the past yet is still contextual to the buildings around it?

Ideally, something that reflects the needs of the structure and the realities of the area where it's being constructed, but nods to what is already there. I have been hoping that just one of the proposed structures would develop a new design language for Providence, but none has yet stepped up.

G-Tech is fully modern and responds to the needs of its footprint, but is in no way unique. 110 is contextual even to the point of preserving an old facade, and while it's a splendid example of its style, it too can't be called unique either.

I thought the original RISD Chase Center had the best shot of creating a new language for Providence. Respectful to its surroundings in materials, incredibly responsive in its design to the needs of the school and the museum, and appropriate for its space, it nevertheless had the potential to contemporarily move the needle forward.

We'll see about the current version, though....

- Garris

[Lone Ranger]

Well, upon some reflection, I want to propose my own wish-skyscraper for Cotuit to hate. If I had my way, I think I'd like something similar to the concept of Philadelphia's 2 Liberty Place, greatly scaled down of course. I'd want it similar in shape at the top, but with clean lines on the sides and, in general, a sleeker, glassier (less 80's) look.

The one on the right in both pics. It's the cut gemstone look I like here, as with Cira Center and, to a lesser extent, Boston's current proposal for the South Station Tower.

Again, the design isn't all that complicated. But BCBS gives us this glass block, as if a touch of imagination were an unnecessary imposition.

[Baines]

i love the building... but this render does not match the height of the video snapshots that cotuit posted... and it doesnt look as tall as the westin.. I am guessing this render is the incorrect one as far as height goes

Well, you're visual assessment is accurate. TPG has the building designed for 310 feet - almost the identical height of the Textron Tower (which I wish they would light!).

Now take Textron and place it on LaSalle Sq and you have the building (with the added 30 feet or so of ground level difference) with the appearance of a 340 foot building. Very nice.

As to all the glass, by hope is that the final look will blend some stone/concrete into the structure.

[mental757]

Is the seagull a requirment as well???