COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot

[mental757]

so lets hope RI can be the colts for a day and land a superstar...

[Lone Ranger]

If it really is BCBS, there is going to be an awful lot of vacant space downtown.

The man raises an interesting point.

[Recchia]

If it really is BCBS, there is going to be an awful lot of vacant space downtown.

That's okay, don't we have a really low office vacancy rate?

[spanishboy]

If it really is BCBS, there is going to be an awful lot of vacant space downtown.

Can you explain this to me plz!!!

[xine]

Can you explain this to me plz!!!

Blue Cross Blue Sheild already rents a lot of office space downtown, so if they're moving into the new office building then they're not bringing new workers into the city, just shuffling their existing workers. Their current office spaces around the city that they leave will be vacant.

[Jerry2]

Can you explain this to me plz!!!

Blue Cross occupies a number of buildings already downtown. The building at the corner of Emire & Weybosset, the building @ Cathedral Square & Empire, Empire and Washington, and the god-awful ugly office building in the "Power Block" acoss from Trinity Brewhouse. If they consolidate all these offices into one, it might bode well for them, but it will leave all these spaces vacant......and whom might I suggest would be eyeing these newly vacated properties. I would guess the universities so they can sprawl and take over the entire city at this point and not contribute a penny to the tax base. However, this is my psychic intuition kicking and by no means should it be considered fact. Who knows if its actually BCBS as a prime target tenant? But I would imagine...it wouldn't be any NEW investment. However, I could be wrong.

[Garris]

so lets hope RI can be the colts for a day and land a superstar...

Kind of off topic, but some states are putting penalties into those tax breaks now, meaning if X number of jobs or revenue isn't generated by the move, the company needs to pay penalties. Other smart municipalities are putting in clauses making companies promise to stay for a given amount of time after the tax breaks end, preventing them from picking up and moving to the next town willing to give out breaks.

Regarding this project, I too hope BCBS isn't the tenent. What would they stand to gain by putting everyone in one big new building? I can't imagine it would generate any substantial savings for them.

- Garris

[KRC]

Kind of off topic, but some states are putting penalties into those tax breaks now, meaning if X number of jobs or revenue isn't generated by the move, the company needs to pay penalties. Other smart municipalities are putting in clauses making companies promise to stay for a given amount of time after the tax breaks end, preventing them from picking up and moving to the next town willing to give out breaks.

Regarding this project, I too hope BCBS isn't the tenent. What would they stand to gain by putting everyone in one big new building? I can't imagine it would generate any substantial savings for them.

- Garris

You'd be surprised. Logistics does have a tanglable expense line in any company. I am hoping it is BCBS. WE NEED CLASS A OFFICE SPACE DESPERATELY DOWNTOWN! I know of a few examples of companies that have shown interest in moving to the city but couldn't due to lack of space...and not a single one of them was a college or any type of learning institution of any kind. If it's BCBS it really couldn't be a better situation for the city. A large company stays and opens up some needed office space. Space, by the way, that has already proven itself as credible in the market. Let's not forget that even if it is BCBS, it's not like the building will be done tomorrow and they move in the day after. The move will take years, during which time the space they currently occupy will be marketed.

[Jerry2]

You'd be surprised. Logistics does have a tanglable expense line in any company. I am hoping it is BCBS. WE NEED CLASS A OFFICE SPACE DESPERATELY DOWNTOWN! I know of a few examples of companies that have shown interest in moving to the city but couldn't due to lack of space...and not a single one of them was a college or any type of learning institution of any kind. If it's BCBS it really couldn't be a better situation for the city. A large company stays and opens up some needed office space. Space, by the way, that has already proven itself as credible in the market. Let's not forget that even if it is BCBS, it's not like the building will be done tomorrow and they move in the day after. The move will take years, during which time the space they currently occupy will be marketed.

I would really like to hear some of these companies that you speak of....

[mr2448]

You'd be surprised. Logistics does have a tanglable expense line in any company. I am hoping it is BCBS. WE NEED CLASS A OFFICE SPACE DESPERATELY DOWNTOWN! I know of a few examples of companies that have shown interest in moving to the city but couldn't due to lack of space...and not a single one of them was a college or any type of learning institution of any kind. If it's BCBS it really couldn't be a better situation for the city. A large company stays and opens up some needed office space. Space, by the way, that has already proven itself as credible in the market. Let's not forget that even if it is BCBS, it's not like the building will be done tomorrow and they move in the day after. The move will take years, during which time the space they currently occupy will be marketed.

Unfortunately there has been very little business speculation building in Providence and Rhode Ilsand. Everyone needs a tenant before they build their office building. Condo's seem to be the only speculative construction here.

There have been rumors in the past 10 years that companies were willing to move into down city, but there was no office space available. They were looking for upwards of 100,000 sq ft. The only building with that type of space built has been the Foundry, but it was unimproved space. The time line to improve it was 6-8 months. These companies were looking to move in within 2-3 months.

The city needs to have available vacant space. Class A space is currently filled to the 92% level. I think we could easily handle 2-3 buildings that have in total 750,000-1,000,000 sq. ft of available class A space. This is in addition to G-Tech's new building. More space would lower some pricing, but it would entice movement down city and then pricing would climb again.

Providence ranks a poor 5th or 6th when it comes to business office space in New England cities. Boston, Cambridge, Hartford , Stamford and possibly New Haven all rank above Providence. Office buildings would give the city true "Power Blocks"!

Mark

[mental757]

I too see a BCBS consolidation as a mixed bag of sorts, but overall a positive move. The vacated space is good space and could be used to attract a few smaller (but new to RI/PVD) companies. Assuming the vacated spaces would be pretty much 'move-in' condition is a plus too - RI would be able to move quickly to attract new tenants. At the end of the day, we all get an awesome new building and continued investment in the city we love so much...

[KRC]

I would really like to hear some of these companies that you speak of....

Mine is one (I've been working on this project since 2001.). Two very large national law firms have been looking for years. There are a couple of Boston financial firms that have been interested in a move if space can be provided. The problem is not interest, but availability of space. I'm not talking about filling office space the size of Midtown Manhattan. We're only talking about a total of a 7% increase in total downtown space (Again, we're talking Class A here.). You may remember when Edwards & Angell backed out of their potential move to the building that was supposed to go where Gtech is, they nixed plans for several smaller firms eyeing One Financial Plaza as their new home. If you can, attend a Providence Foundation or BBB meeting sometime. I think you'd find it enlightening.

[KRC]

I too see a BCBS consolidation as a mixed bag of sorts, but overall a positive move. The vacated space is good space and could be used to attract a few smaller (but new to RI/PVD) companies. Assuming the vacated spaces would be pretty much 'move-in' condition is a plus too - RI would be able to move quickly to attract new tenants. At the end of the day, we all get an awesome new building and continued investment in the city we love so much...

Amen, Brother!

[mental757]

Mine is one (I've been working on this project since 2001.). Two very large national law firms have been looking for years. There are a couple of Boston financial firms that have been interested in a move if space can be provided. The problem is not interest, but availability of space. I'm not talking about filling office space the size of Midtown Manhattan. We're only talking about a total of a 7% increase in total downtown space (Again, we're talking Class A here.). You may remember when Edwards & Angell backed out of their potential move to the building that was supposed to go where Gtech is, they nixed plans for several smaller firms eyeing One Financial Plaza as their new home. If you can, attend a Providence Foundation or BBB meeting sometime. I think you'd find it enlightening.

so, in your opinion, will this new building effect/attract some of these companies either directly or indirectly by creating new class A space?

[damus]

Mine is one (I've been working on this project since 2001.). Two very large national law firms have been looking for years. There are a couple of Boston financial firms that have been interested in a move if space can be provided. The problem is not interest, but availability of space. I'm not talking about filling office space the size of Midtown Manhattan. We're only talking about a total of a 7% increase in total downtown space (Again, we're talking Class A here.). You may remember when Edwards & Angell backed out of their potential move to the building that was supposed to go where Gtech is, they nixed plans for several smaller firms eyeing One Financial Plaza as their new home. If you can, attend a Providence Foundation or BBB meeting sometime. I think you'd find it enlightening.

If there are so many firms that are waiting for the right opportunity to move into Providence, why aren't there that many office buildings going up? I know from experience as a security guard that several floors in the Fleet Center and 1 Financial were empty. E&A owns/leases the 21st floor of 1 Financial and, as far as I know, still use it to this day for storage with most of the floor going to waste. Last time I was there, the 22nd and 23rd floors of 1 Financial were vacant because a firm outgrew that space and moved to the Citizens building. I think E&A might have been considering moving into the 22nd floor, leaving me scratching my head as to why they just didn't decide to take the 23rd and extend their inter-floor stairway or at least reserve that option for the future. There was a lot of space in the Fleet Center that was vacant.

I'm no expert by any means, but I don't understand the huge demand for space if entire floors in two of Providence's premier buildings are/were vacant.

[Cotuit]

Last time I was there, the 22nd and 23rd floors of 1 Financial were vacant

Not anymore...

Mellon signs lease for Financial Plaza in Providence [Providence Business News]

[KRC]

If there are so many firms that are waiting for the right opportunity to move into Providence, why aren't there that many office buildings going up? I know from experience as a security guard that several floors in the Fleet Center and 1 Financial were empty. E&A owns/leases the 21st floor of 1 Financial and, as far as I know, still use it to this day for storage with most of the floor going to waste. Last time I was there, the 22nd and 23rd floors of 1 Financial were vacant because a firm outgrew that space and moved to the Citizens building. I think E&A might have been considering moving into the 22nd floor, leaving me scratching my head as to why they just didn't decide to take the 23rd and extend their inter-floor stairway or at least reserve that option for the future. There was a lot of space in the Fleet Center that was vacant.

I'm no expert by any means, but I don't understand the huge demand for space if entire floors in two of Providence's premier buildings are/were vacant.

There are no large vacant spaces. One or two vacant floors means there are one or two vacant floors. That's hardly a shoppers market. If I'm a company looking for 60,000 sq. ft. of space, I want some options here. That is not available in Providence and has not been available in many, many years. The current vacancy rate in Providence is less than 5%...much less than 5%. If I'm a company and I want to take advantage of some of the tax benefits of locating in RI and I want an urban/financial district location, I want to see some space to move into. There is none. Most companies are not in the business of owning property so building their own is not an option. We've been good at getting people to notice the city, but after that we have nothing to offer.

I am itching to give names here, but to be honest there are so many trolls on these boards that I'm a bit afraid to give any information. That's why my posts are random and I almost never give specifics. I have suggested that if anyone really cares about the topic and wants to find out facts to go to some meetings and look into the situtation. You'd be pleasantly surprised at the level of interest in the city. Nothing is a given of course, but someone needs to break the catch 22 we're in here. If this rumor is BCBS I, for one, am very confident that the landlords of the vacated space will not have much difficulty filling in the majority of their space in the two years or so it would take for a move to happen.

[KRC]

so, in your opinion, will this new building effect/attract some of these companies either directly or indirectly by creating new class A space?

Yes, I do. Office building seems to follow the same type of synergy patterns as hotels. Clusters can and do work for a rather large segment of the market. Not all companies want to be in a suburban location. I'm not saying that we are in a position to fill 5 million sq. feet here, but 500,000 in a two year span? Yeah, we are. I look forward to watching the city and current owners rise to the challenge.

[MikeR]

The current vacancy rate in Providence is less than 5%...much less than 5%.

Is the 5% figure just for Class A or for the vacancy percentage in gereral? Does anyone know the breakdown of vacancy space (Class A,B,C)?

[Cotuit]

Is the 5% figure just for Class A or for the vacancy percentage in gereral? Does anyone know the breakdown of vacancy space (Class A,B,C)?

I think it's all, and like most statistics, the exact numbers seem to depend on who is doing the counting. I pulled these numbers for another thread a while back:

I found an archived Providence Business News article that said our vacancy rate was up to 8.6% in 2004 (from 7.3% in 2003). This was a July 2005 article, I'm not sure where it's at now. Some office space has been converted to residential, but we've also had a bit of office space come online, and GTECH will add more. The vacancy problem in Providence is most accute for Class A space.

Although, here's another article from the Real Estate Journal that says our vacancies dropped at the end of '04.

This article says Providence's (and Portland, ME) vacancy rates were 4.2% in 2005. Don't know how we would have swung so far from 8.6% in one year. We had a large building downtown become RISD dorms, but I think that came out of the office market in '03.

[mental757]

Yes, I do. Office building seems to follow the same type of synergy patterns as hotels. Clusters can and do work for a rather large segment of the market. Not all companies want to be in a suburban location. I'm not saying that we are in a position to fill 5 million sq. feet here, but 500,000 in a two year span? Yeah, we are. I look forward to watching the city and current owners rise to the challenge.

Sounds good to me. So maybe this new building will house a large tenant or two with even more spec space (as Cotuit mentioned) which would be grabbed fairly quickly. In the even of the potential tenant being BCBS or even a differant RI/PVD company, the space they vacate should be re-marketing and used to attract even more business in relatively short order - that eases my concerns!

[CtownMikey]

if the vacancy rate has been so low, why hasn't new office space been pushed to be built faster than any other project in the city?? It seems rather important

[AriPVD]

Press conference today at 10:30am.

[Cotuit]

Press conference today at 10:30am.

I was walking through LaSalle Square this morning wishing that everything would just get going already, the Dunk, the renovations of the square, the calming of Fountain Street, the Public Safety site, 111 Fountain Street...

And I saw a tent being set up.

[mental757]

Press conference today at 10:30am.

OK, any of you downtown workers/dwellers going???

We need up to date reports ASAP!