COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot

[Statesman]

Aye, agreed. The brownspots and run-down parking lots in Providence need to be filled, and not just by towers. I hope we never get a Boston-esque skyline, but along with filling those spaces, we could definately use a deeper (not necessarily wider) skyline.

One of my favorite views of the Providence Skyline is coning toward the capital on Route 6 and heading north toward Boston. You dip down in your car and follow the highway left, and as you cross in front of the CC and Westin, the Westin tower moves to reveal a deep skyline with GTECH and a nice busy flow of traffic. It's very city-like.

[Cotuit]

I know quite a few politicians that are STILL spouting dragonfire over Everyone's Favorite Local Big Glass Cube across from Providence Place Mall. There is no way we're getting another characterless box in the capital. We'd see legislative action stopping it, lol.

I'd suggest that our assembly members try getting some real work done and spend less time staring out their windows.

does anyone wonder why the rumor building wasnt placed on the atwells parcels to become part of the power block. the power block location is right next door, so is there a reason TPG didn't want office space as part of the power block?

I don't understand what you mean, this project is in the heart of the Power Block, the Atwells Parcel is across the highway.

[CtownMikey]

but is the empire site considered to be part of the power block proposal?

[runawayjim]

Aye, agreed. The brownspots and run-down parking lots in Providence need to be filled, and not just by towers. I hope we never get a Boston-esque skyline, but along with filling those spaces, we could definately use a deeper (not necessarily wider) skyline.

One of my favorite views of the Providence Skyline is coning toward the capital on Route 6 and heading north toward Boston. You dip down in your car and follow the highway left, and as you cross in front of the CC and Westin, the Westin tower moves to reveal a deep skyline with GTECH and a nice busy flow of traffic. It's very city-like.

i personally hate the boston skyline. i hate that the prudential and hancock towers are just sticking up out in the middle of nowhere and then you have the financial district/downtown area. i don't like that they're not all together. i think it either needs more right around the other 2 tall ones or that they should've been built closer to everything else. they just don't fit in.

that being said... i don't think that a tall building where this is going is gonna hurt our skyline considering it's like a block or 2 from the westin, adding more density to that area, and there's more filling in the gap between the westin and the "big 3" with the waterplace towers going up (although not huge, but still adding height in an area where there's none.

i also like gtech and don't think it's a shapeless glass box. the back is nice and curved, making it fit in perfectly with waterplace park.

[Cotuit]

I don't understand the panic over skylines, people always talk about the gap in the Boston skyline, we don't live in the skyline, we live on the street.

Personally, I love the gap in the Boston skyine, it adds character. Boston and Providence are both very dense historically rich cities, much like European cities. Short of tearing down a lof of buildings both cities will have odd gaps in their skylines. I'd much rather live with the fabric we have in Providence on the ground than in a city with a perfectly shaped skyline that has no character on the ground.

[Statesman]

Hah. Yea...maybe next year will see something improtant, like a same-sex marriage bill finally make it out of committee (Drops a construction beam on House Speaker Murphy for overriding my boss this last session with regards to that bill)

[Cotuit]

but is the empire site considered to be part of the power block proposal?

The "Power Block" is really just a marketing gimmick. I'm sure when TPG coined the term they knew they were going to try to get the Public Safety Complex and build something there, so yes, it's part of the Power Block.

[CtownMikey]

ok thanks daddy

soooo uber excited about this project. have any deadline been announced besides the 2010 completion? design reviews, approvals, etc?

[Garris]

I don't understand the panic over skylines, people always talk about the gap in the Boston skyline, we don't live in the skyline, we live on the street.

I agree. How many cities can we think of with great skylines but dead, bland streetscapes? Let's see... Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, Detroit, Charlotte, etc for starters. Then there are cities with great streetscapes but bland skylines... Washington DC, Boston (in my opinion), Portland OR, San Francisco (take away the Transamerica tower, and what we know of that skyline?). Which places would you rather live in?

It is nice to have both, though. There are some cities (Seattle and Portland both leap to mind) where I think those cities great street life would be enhanced even more if there were interesting things to look up at...

I'm not all that impressed by Boston's skyline. That gap is the only thing that makes it memorable at all. Take your thumb, cover the Pru and JH, and the rest of what's there in the financial district is completely forgettable... Could be Seattle, could be Cincinatti, etc etc...

GTECH has actually grown on me lately (That curving wall facing Waterplace is what did it for me, I think), but I still wish it wasn't squat and stubby.

I was actually thinking today that given all of the various angles of the streets it fronts, the park, etc that it would almost be impossible to do a "traditional" building there that could satisfy all of demands of the sidewalks and streetscape without looking strange. G-Tech can do that now because of its modern design. Whether it was the best modern design possible is another issue altogether.

- Garris

[Cotuit]

I'm not all that impressed by Boston's skyline. That gap is the only thing that makes it memorable at all. Take your thumb, cover the Pru and JH, and the rest of what's there in the financial district is completely forgettable... Could be Seattle, could be Cincinatti, etc etc...

Indeed, Boston's central skyline is rather blah, and actually has a number of rather ugly buildings. I think more important than placement in Providence is style.

[Mij]

The "Power Block" is really just a marketing gimmick. I'm sure when TPG coined the term they knew they were going to try to get the Public Safety Complex and build something there, so yes, it's part of the Power Block.

Make you wonder why the 55 attwels space wasnt used. Wonder how long before we have a rumor for that....

[CtownMikey]

thats what i was asking..

[Mij]

thats what i was asking..

Actually I should have put 55 Broadway (the old circle gas station) witch is part of the "Power Block" marketing gimmic, as opposed to the Atwells location, witch sits between Atwells and Broadway, but on the other side of 95. But I knew what you ment

[CtownMikey]

can anyone estimate how much space bcbs will actually be using?? and depending on how much extra space is left, would it affect (delay) another company.... i'm thinking citizens, from going ahead with their new hq rumor

[Recchia]

I love the Back Bay skyline in Boston. Downtown , unless you're looking at it from Logan, looks really generic. On another note, I was just there on Thursday and was reminded how massive Boston feels compared to Providence. Boston feels about 10 times bigger.

[Lone Ranger]

I love the Back Bay skyline in Boston. Downtown , unless you're looking at it from Logan, looks really generic. On another note, I was just there on Thursday and was reminded how massive Boston feels compared to Providence. Boston feels about 10 times bigger.

Exactly. Like it or not, the Back Bay is Boston's skyline. Nothing else stands out.

[brick]

I was in Montreal over the weekend and while I had been there many times before, I hadn't really thought about what I liked so much about it in terms of the way we talk around here. But much of the city (old and new) is built around streetscapes. Anyway, the point is that they have a bunch of really large buildings that don't feel large at all when you are at the base of them since they are so well integrated to the street - then you look up and you are dwarfed by them.

Anyway the point of me posting my little story here in this thread is that I saw some buildings that might be decent examples of what could go here (although these are in the 500-700 ft. range so you would have to change the scale a bit)

1250 Rene Levesque. It might be kind of hokey having one side dominated by glass and one dominated by stone but it works really well in context. You could easily dream up a couple of different facade materials to reflect looking forward by also looking back. I don't know I'm sounding hokey but you get the idea.

1501 McGill College. This one I'm putting not just because of the design (it's basically a box with a cool modern deco top), but because of the way it seems so imposing in the skyline, but at street level it is integrated to the underground city and there is outdoor dining on two sides and street level retail on the other two. It is really well integrated to the fabric of St. Catherine St. despite it's size.

Tour KPMG. It's hard to explain this one. I think the emporis pictures make it look kind of ugly. But somehow this building even though it is mostly glass has features at the bottom that make it look "old" Many will think it is a postmodern behemoth, but I thought it fit well with the surroundings. I took this picture of it with Christ Church Cathedral in the foreground. Maybe the pinkish color wouldn't need to be copied, though.

Place Montreal Trust

I know none of these are perfect but there are elements in them that I would think fit Providence and especially fit a tower sitting essentially by itself like E@B.

(I also like the R2D2 building, although that is mentioned in another thread)

[runawayjim]

I was in Montreal over the weekend and while I had been there many times before, I hadn't really thought about what I liked so much about it in terms of the way we talk around here. But much of the city (old and new) is built around streetscapes. Anyway, the point is that they have a bunch of really large buildings that don't feel large at all when you are at the base of them since they are so well integrated to the street - then you look up and you are dwarfed by them.

Anyway the point of me posting my little story here in this thread is that I saw some buildings that might be decent examples of what could go here (although these are in the 500-700 ft. range so you would have to change the scale a bit)

1250 Rene Levesque. It might be kind of hokey having one side dominated by glass and one dominated by stone but it works really well in context. You could easily dream up a couple of different facade materials to reflect looking forward by also looking back. I don't know I'm sounding hokey but you get the idea.

1501 McGill College. This one I'm putting not just because of the design (it's basically a box with a cool modern deco top), but because of the way it seems so imposing in the skyline, but at street level it is integrated to the underground city and there is outdoor dining on two sides and street level retail on the other two. It is really well integrated to the fabric of St. Catherine St. despite it's size.

Tour KPMG. It's hard to explain this one. I think the emporis pictures make it look kind of ugly. But somehow this building even though it is mostly glass has features at the bottom that make it look "old" Many will think it is a postmodern behemoth, but I thought it fit well with the surroundings. I took this picture of it with Christ Church Cathedral in the foreground. Maybe the pinkish color wouldn't need to be copied, though.

Place Montreal Trust

I know none of these are perfect but there are elements in them that I would think fit Providence and especially fit a tower sitting essentially by itself like E@B.

(I also like the R2D2 building, although that is mentioned in another thread)

i think that first one was mentioned before, at lesat i've seen it linked somewhere on UP. i like that one and the last one. the last one might actually make the BCBS building look like it fits in a bit better. it's similarly colored.

[Griswald]

i think that first one was mentioned before, at lesat i've seen it linked somewhere on UP. i like that one and the last one. the last one might actually make the BCBS building look like it fits in a bit better. it's similarly colored.

That may be true, but I really don't like the idea of two cliche postmodern corporate designs like that - there are so many new office buildings that try to do the same thing - mix glass and brick or glass and stone - thinking that it's an imaginative way to combine new technology and old materials.... but it's been done way too much, it's almost like cookie-cutter design. 'Do you want the brick box with the curved glass wall, or the curved granite wall with the glass curtainwall?'

I think we can do better with a prominent downtown site like this one, the designs I'm talking about above are more commonly found in office parks along 95 (Cranston, Warwick, Dedham, Newton, etc). I think we need a "destination architecture" design, something that will bring people from out of town to come see. Hire someone like Santiago Calatrava to design the tower.....

[brick]

I think we can do better with a prominent downtown site like this one, the designs I'm talking about above are more commonly found in office parks along 95 (Cranston, Warwick, Dedham, Newton, etc). I think we need a "destination architecture" design, something that will bring people from out of town to come see. Hire someone like Santiago Calatrava to design the tower.....

I would like a Calatrava as much as anyone, but as I posted the last time I mentioned him, to get a Calatrava high rise you would need a developer who was a huge benefactor for the city. His only high rises have been extremely high end (like starting at $6 MM up to $15 MM) residences. Providence can't support that and I don't think anyone is going to put the money into building a Calatrava just for office space. It is not easy to construct his style. Frankly I would rather a Calatrava bridge or low-rise (say if the city cuilt a new transit hub) than a Calatrava high-rise anyway.

Providence doesn't need a landmark tower, I don't think. There is obviously a difference between need and want. But I would rather get a building which is part of the urban fabric and works within context and at the ground level, and is also economically viable than have a 300 foot piece of, essentially, poorly utilized sculpture. Maybe if Providence were hosting a World's Fair we could get something like that.

[Cotuit]

I would like a Calatrava as much as anyone, but as I posted the last time I mentioned him, to get a Calatrava high rise you would need a developer who was a huge benefactor for the city. His only high rises have been extremely high end (like starting at $6 MM up to $15 MM) residences. Providence can't support that and I don't think anyone is going to put the money into building a Calatrava just for office space. It is not easy to construct his style.

Does Providence really have the architectural reputation that people say it does? I mean would a starchitect recognize Providence and perhaps want to leave his/her mark on the city so to speak?

Frankly I would rather a Calatrava bridge

Like at the old 195 crossing.

Providence doesn't need a landmark tower, I don't think. There is obviously a difference between need and want. But I would rather get a building which is part of the urban fabric and works within context and at the ground level, and is also economically viable than have a 300 foot piece of, essentially, poorly utilized sculpture.

Yes, I agree. I rather fear the starchitects and worry that we would get form over function. Really the tower could be a turd for all I care, as long as the groundfloor streetscape is done right.

[runawayjim]

I would like a Calatrava as much as anyone, but as I posted the last time I mentioned him, to get a Calatrava high rise you would need a developer who was a huge benefactor for the city. His only high rises have been extremely high end (like starting at $6 MM up to $15 MM) residences. Providence can't support that and I don't think anyone is going to put the money into building a Calatrava just for office space. It is not easy to construct his style. Frankly I would rather a Calatrava bridge or low-rise (say if the city cuilt a new transit hub) than a Calatrava high-rise anyway.

Providence doesn't need a landmark tower, I don't think. There is obviously a difference between need and want. But I would rather get a building which is part of the urban fabric and works within context and at the ground level, and is also economically viable than have a 300 foot piece of, essentially, poorly utilized sculpture. Maybe if Providence were hosting a World's Fair we could get something like that.

the ground level should be the current building with something new built up from it if you ask me. the current building isn't that ugly and it's got some nice historic features. they might have to do something about all the garage doors, unless they become entrances to a parking garage.

and we already have a landmark tower if you ask me... the superman building.

[Cotuit]

That may be true, but I really don't like the idea of two cliche postmodern corporate designs like that - there are so many new office buildings that try to do the same thing - mix glass and brick or glass and stone - thinking that it's an imaginative way to combine new technology and old materials.... but it's been done way too much, it's almost like cookie-cutter design. 'Do you want the brick box with the curved glass wall, or the curved granite wall with the glass curtainwall?'

I totally hear what you are saying here, but you also just described OneTen. Personally, I feel OneTen (at least on paper, we'll see how it looks in reality) has pulled off the mixed stone and glass curtain wall cliche very well and will become Providence's signature tower (in addition to the Superman Building). I'd be interested to hear what you think about OneTen and if you indeed like it, why you think its able to pull off the cliche better than others.

Not to harsh on anyone's taste, but I think most of what people have held up as ideals in this thread are terrible! I'm still liking the blue glass box sketch of the actual proposal beyond anything else. Its at the least inoffensive in its simplicity.

[Recchia]

I'll throw in my two favorites from Chicago, 225 Wacker and 333 West Wacker:

333 West Wacker

225 Wacker

I think I'd like 225 Wacker better for this spot, though it might look kind of dull in the sky with the Superman building being the closest tower to it.

And like Cotuit said, in the end, if the relationship with the street is right, then who cares what the tower looks like.

[runawayjim]

I'll throw in my two favorites from Chicago, 225 Wacker and 333 West Wacker:

333 West Wacker

225 Wacker

I think I'd like 225 Wacker better for this spot, though it might look kind of dull in the sky with the Superman building being the closest tower to it.

And like Cotuit said, in the end, if the relationship with the street is right, then who cares what the tower looks like.

i like 333 better. i think we need more modern architecture... but even as cotuit said, the original render isn't bad and won't be bad if it's placed on top of the current building.