COMPLETE: The Old Public Safety Surface Lot

[Cotuit]

Also so now according to this latest development, plus the updated building height rank, we have 3 heights for the old public safety complex, 150', 205' and im assuming the 340'. Are we looking at multiple towers? or one building with multiple roof heights? (assuming the building height rank thread is correct)

The building height thread remained purposefully wrong to keep people guessing on the rumor. If I had removed the eariler Public Safety heights, people would have nailed it right away. It's one tower, 300+ft. probably as high as 340ft.

[damus]

The building height thread remained purposefully wrong to keep people guessing on the rumor. If I had removed the eariler Public Safety heights, people would have nailed it right away. It's one tower, 300+ft. probably as high as 340ft.

I'd say this has the potential to be as big for the city as 110 was... remember 110 grew a few floors and then added the spire for effect. The potential tenant could always request more space during the design phase and TPG would gladly build higher. Jobs will come downtown, and more people will want to go to places on Empire like Trinity for lunch or dunkin donuts or cafe le france for morning coffee. This is great news...

[Cotuit]

The potential tenant could always request more space during the design phase and TPG would gladly build higher.

It's not outside the realm of possiblity that it could go higher, I've heard the estimates raise already, but as proposed, there is already more room than the primary tenant needs and there will be speculative office space. I would venture to guess that as soft as our office market has been over the last oh, half century, and the fact that GTECH also has speculative space to fill, this project won't go too much higher. But if we see GTECH and this space fill up quickly, that is certainly good news for future office development.

Has anyone heard anything on the state of GTECHs speculative space, have they landed any tenants besides GTECH itself yet?

Jobs will come downtown, and more people will want to go to places on Empire like Trinity for lunch or dunkin donuts or cafe le france for morning coffee. This is great news...

I could see this influx of office workers driving development at the end of Broadway. The Atwells Parcel building will likely have ground floor retail, and there is existing retail space on Broadway (between Dean and the Highway) that is poorly utilized. If crossing the service roads can be improved I see no reason why workers here wouldn't venture to eastern Broadway for lunch if lunch could be had there.

[CtownMikey]

could we get a map of exactly where these places are.. im kinda lost on where the public safety building is.

[Cotuit]

I can't get GoogleMaps or LiveLocal to work properly right now, otherwise I'd post a map.

The Old Public Safety Complex is across Broadway from the Holiday Inn, if you are driving down Atwells from Federal Hill, it is right across the street from you at the traffic light at the end of the street.

[Frankie811]

As part of the sales a development agreement will be signed that requires the developer to submit plans for approval within the next six months for a 480,000 square foot office building which will include 550+/- parking spaces and 25,000 to 50,000 square feet of ground floor retail space.

So it looks like we won't see any contruction untill next Spring, at the earliest.

[dexter]

Has anyone heard anything on the state of GTECHs speculative space, have they landed any tenants besides GTECH itself yet?

Fidekity is moving their retail operation out of the mall into GTECH on the first floor of the Francis St side. Another dissapointment relative to this building.

[prudence]

a 480,000 square foot office building which will include 550+/- parking spaces and 25,000 to 50,000 square feet of ground floor retail space.

Anyone of our downtown residents care to guess where they might be buying their milk & bread in the future?

If anyone has ever been to the Shaw's Supermarket (which is fantastic) at the Prudential Center in Boston it weighs in at 40,000 square feet. I can't imagine TPG is going to try and lease a great deal of small footprint retail space at this location much past a single 5-7K restaurant.

[damus]

Anyone of our downtown residents care to guess where they might be buying their milk & bread in the future?

If anyone has ever been to the Shaw's Supermarket (which is fantastic) at the Prudential Center in Boston it weighs in at 40,000 square feet. I can't imagine TPG is going to try and lease a great deal of small footprint retail space at this location much past a single 5-7K restaurant.

I've been to a Star market, which is owned by the same company as Shaws I think, with multiple levels in Boston. It would be nice to see that kind of stuff come along downcity... For milk and bread, I never buy that at the supermarket. Milk prices are almost 2 dollars lower per gallon at gas stations, and I have my own special place where I get all the bread I want for free...

[provid]

The only problem is most people live/work on the otherside of downtown. I would much rather have a spot near dressbarn or 110.

[prudence]

The only problem is most people live/work on the otherside of downtown. I would much rather have a spot near dressbarn or 110.

The problem is a user like that wants new, and large, floorplate retail space which is understandably hard to find in an older downtown. That's why it will happen on an edge of downtown and not in the financial district (as it probably should).

Plus, if you can't walk the three or four blocks to this site you might want to rethink living in a downtown!

[Lone Ranger]

The only problem is most people live/work on the otherside of downtown. I would much rather have a spot near dressbarn or 110.

Isn't there a grocery store planned for the 110 project too?

[damus]

also.. if the "power block" is ever fully built along with the metrolofts and the "atwells parcel" rumor there will be demand on that side of downtown, possibly more than what there will be on the other side of downtown...

[CtownMikey]

hey if we're discussing this in the first place then it can't be that bad

[Garris]

Great news, and great postings. A thanks as usual to Thom.

An office building on the Public Safety complex is perfect, and just what is needed to jump start that part of downtown. I really hope they are able to keep some of the facade, which would be incredibly cool.

For those who have been (rightly) concerned about the lack of office development downtown, this, along with the G-Tech speculative space and proposed 190-200 Dyer should ease the mind. That's a generous amount of proposed commercial building for any downtown of Providence's size.

This site would also be a great place for the a hypothetical supermarket. While 110 will, if I recall, have a more gourmet market in the Arcade, this site is perfect for a full service market, as it has good accessibility to the following buildings/neighborhoods:

- Downcity (yes, walk the 2-3 blocks! I used to walk 8 in Manhattan for the same)

- RISD/J&W dorms (students will walk anywhere)

- Broadway/West End

- Federal Hill

- Future Greene townhomes

- Current RP and Cathedral Sq residences

- Eastern end of Broad/Weybosset Hill

Makes sense to me!

- Garris

[CtownMikey]

google earth has a check mark box to have buildings become 3d but unfortunately not for PVD ... my question is does anyone feel that the skyline would look weird? we already have a row of skyscrapers( our big 3 ), then we'll have the powerblock (westins, hilton addition, and this rumored site is across from the hilton?) so it would be like another row of skyscrapers... just not as tall.

and I'm not sure where on earth the dyer site is

[damus]

and I'm not sure where on earth the dyer site is

Memorial Boulevard gives way to Dyer as you enter the parking lot district south of the financial district

[CtownMikey]

haha a new map needs to be made for me with these new projects highlighted

[CtownMikey]

for now you can go to projo.com ---> http://www.projo.com/multimedia/?ln and check out the 3d map on the "living the high life" media story.

I love this "rumor" project but wish it was close to the CBD core

[Garris]

... my question is does anyone feel that the skyline would look weird? we already have a row of skyscrapers( our big 3 ), then we'll have the powerblock (westins, hilton addition, and this rumored site is across from the hilton?) so it would be like another row of skyscrapers... just not as tall.

Will the skyline be changed? Doing photos as I do, I've thought a lot about this, and my answer is:

Yes and no...

The big three (soon to be the big four) will unquestionably remain the focal point of our skyline for quite some time. There won't be much more opportunity to add to this core cluster, though, unless someone wants to:

1 - Knock down more viable historic buildings in that area, which is unlikely to happen

2 - Build height at the current CVS/Bank building area near Kennedy Plaza and knock this down (this has potential)

3 - The ProJo decides to do something with its garage area (unlikely)

4 - Expand the core height South, into the "parking district" (I like this idea a lot, but for some reason, the wacko India Point/Fox Point and JD groups seem to be against height here )

The current proposals and building will certainly widen and scatter our skyline quite a bit, but I don't think they'll take away from the visibility and impact of the big 4.

Here's how I think things will shake out (Garris' Guide to Photographing the Future Skyline):

View from the South:

- 110 will change things the most here by adding extra height. Big 4 will still be the dominent image.

- Looking left, the Westin will be joined by Westin II, but this won't change the skyline much since it's in a bit of a dip.

- Public Safety tower (and Metrolofts, Atwell's site, shortened Hilton tower) will be even more leftward from the core than even the Westin appears now, so this will give the visual impression of a bigger city core in terms of surface area (a good thing) but not detract from the impact of the Core 4 from the RIH or I-95 vantagepoint. The center of the city will still be indisputable...

View from the North (the biggest change):

- Waterplace will change this dramatically. The Core 4 will still be the focal point, but Waterplace will be front and center and fill in the gap between this and Citizen's, allowing Citizen's to finally be included in skyline shots without looking wierd...

- From a North perspective, the Westin is already waaay right and out of frame with all but the widest of lenses, so this will continue to be the case with the announced Western developments...

View from the West:

- Hardest to photograph, this view will be changed by everything proposed, as most Western views compress all the buildings from the Core 4, to Westin into the same visual space

- Westin II and Public Safety will probably look like the biggest buildings in the city from this angle, as Westin I from this viewpoint already challenges the existing big three in this respect

- Even the shorter Hilton tower will have undue prominence from this perspective

- The overall impact won't be great, but the image will be very different...

View from the East:

- Whether from the iconic Prospect Park view or from East Providence, this view will be the least changed

- Waterplace will change this view most, balancing out the Core 4

- The Western Developments will again add visual length and depth to the skyline, but not change the overall impact

There you go. I'm happy at all these developments, and wouldn't worry about "skyline management" at all. As a dense, older city, we just don't have the luxury of, say, a newer and spread out Minneapolis to zone our buildings from tallest in the core to smallest at the fringe like they do... We'll probably end up looking more like Boston or Hartford than a Minneapolis or Seattle...

- Garris

[provid]

Its its not about the distance but where I would rather see an urban store. I think more Westminster becasue it lines up better with 110, Waterplace, Westin, Peerless, those working downtown and it simply just feels like the urban downcity. Perhaps my problem is that side of downtown never felt, well downtown.

[damus]

Will the skyline be changed? Doing photos as I do, I've thought a lot about this, and my answer is:

Yes and no...

The big three (soon to be the big four) will unquestionably remain the focal point of our skyline for quite some time. There won't be much more opportunity to add to this core cluster, though, unless someone wants to:

1 - Knock down more viable historic buildings in that area, which is unlikely to happen

2 - Build height at the current CVS/Bank building area near Kennedy Plaza and knock this down (this has potential)

3 - The ProJo decides to do something with its garage area (unlikely)

4 - Expand the core height South, into the "parking district" (I like this idea a lot, but for some reason, the wacko India Point/Fox Point and JD groups seem to be against height here )

Good post... but what about the parking lots (I think it's "Bliss" parking... funny and sad at the same time) by Tommy's Place that are still in the Financial District? why can't anything go in there?

[CtownMikey]

ahhh suki suki... this is all very exciting, it even feels like last February!

[Cotuit]

- Looking left, the Westin will be joined by Westin II, but this won't change the skyline much since it's in a bit of a dip.

The Westin is out of the way and in a dip, but the new tower will be taller and closer. I'm very eager to see how it impacts from say, the Point Street Bridge, or Richmond Street near Davol Square.

[dgreco]

The Westin is out of the way and in a dip, but the new tower will be taller and closer. I'm very eager to see how it impacts from say, the Point Street Bridge, or Richmond Street near Davol Square.

If you take pictures from Prospect Park, on the right of Roger, you get a lot of the westin, and it already looks like a huge building, so when Westin II is added I think it might look like the biggest building in providence from that side of Prospect Park, but at the same time, if you are on the left of Roger, you can't even see the westin.