210 Trade | EpiCentre

[AuLukey]

Well, at least we'll have a really large underground parking deck.

[abirkla]

I am wondering if this party is willing to respond to these comments which no doubt are not as enjoyable to read as the comments that were being posted back in May.

Yes I still enjoy reading the postings although rumors tend to get out of control. 210 Trade enjoyed one of the best sales efforts rivialed only by what happened in southern Florida a few years ago. We are selling a top quality product for a fantastic price in a one of a kind location. Currently we are about to release the penthouse units to the list of about 60 quilalified individuals. These units are very different than any other unit in town. As for the remaining units we are currently selling about 2 - 4 a week which is better than we expected.

As everyone knows, construction cost has increased over the last few years during the housing boom, however now that housing starts have slowed we are seeing for the first time construction cost starting to level out and return to normal. We fully understand that during a two year construction period pricing will fluctuate, therefore the pricing in our condos reflects the anticipated fluctuations. As the parking garage comes to completion our GC (RJ Griffin) is currently preparing to go out for final contractor selections with hopes to begin the 210 tower portion (level 5 and above) near the end of the year. Flaherty & Collins is one of the top 50 builders in the United States with development all over the Country, our reputation is everything to us and the residents of 210 Trade will not be disappointed.

[monsoon]

Ahh, good to see that you found us again. Please feel free to join in anytime you like as I am sure that our members and the vast numbers of lurkers would enjoy hearing as much detail as you would like to offer.

[moving uptown]

Yes I still enjoy reading the postings although rumors tend to get out of control. 210 Trade enjoyed one of the best sales efforts rivialed only by what happened in southern Florida a few years ago. We are selling a top quality product for a fantastic price in a one of a kind location. Currently we are about to release the penthouse units to the list of about 60 quilalified individuals. These units are very different than any other unit in town. As for the remaining units we are currently selling about 2 - 4 a week which is better than we expected.

As everyone knows, construction cost has increased over the last few years during the housing boom, however now that housing starts have slowed we are seeing for the first time construction cost starting to level out and return to normal. We fully understand that during a two year construction period pricing will fluctuate, therefore the pricing in our condos reflects the anticipated fluctuations. As the parking garage comes to completion our GC (RJ Griffin) is currently preparing to go out for final contractor selections with hopes to begin the 210 tower portion (level 5 and above) near the end of the year. Flaherty & Collins is one of the top 50 builders in the United States with development all over the Country, our reputation is everything to us and the residents of 210 Trade will not be disappointed.

thanks for the reassuring words - the tower will be a great addition to charlotte

[Charlotte_native]

Thank you! I didn't really have doubts, it is hard to when there is actual dirt moving, IMO, but hearing reassuring words from someone is good for many who are skeptical and especially for your clients/buyers.

Some other developers could learn from this (unless they do in fact have something to keep quiet!).

Again, THANKS! I can't wait for this place to be in the air!

[monsoon]

Not to be a spoiled sport, but he really didn't address any of the issues brought up by atlrvr.

[Charlotte_native]

Not to be a spoiled sport, but he really didn't address any of the issues brought up by atlrvr.

I know, but at least it is a little acknowledgement and a little info...most "others" seem to clam up more when presented questions!

[sleightofhand]

That is a bummer...who told you that?

The head of construction.

[A2]

As everyone knows, construction cost has increased over the last few years during the housing boom, however now that housing starts have slowed we are seeing for the first time construction cost starting to level out and return to normal. We fully understand that during a two year construction period pricing will fluctuate, therefore the pricing in our condos reflects the anticipated fluctuations. As the parking garage comes to completion our GC (RJ Griffin) is currently preparing to go out for final contractor selections with hopes to begin the 210 tower portion (level 5 and above) near the end of the year. Flaherty & Collins is one of the top 50 builders in the United States with development all over the Country, our reputation is everything to us and the residents of 210 Trade will not be disappointed.

Thanks for the insight. I am keeping fingers crossed you guys pull this one off. My only question is why did they include F&C as a builder when they have never built a resi-tower before? It seems that many would be reassured by having a developer who has some experience in this. F&C might be top 50 for building aprtments, but that is in stick framing construction, not concrete and steel being thrusted over 50 stories into the sky.

Also F&C is trying to pull this thing off from Indiana, not CLT. It would seem to me that a development this complex would require being in CLT and also bringing in a builder with at least SOME degree of experience.

As for costs, can't developers lock in a larger portion of their costs in the futures market? Or is it a situation where a certain number of units have to be "pre-sold" to obtain financing for the tower thus eliminating any oportunity to "lock-in costs" with monies received.

That is one of the things that ticked me off so much about Ron Tober and the Light Rail Project. Any bafoon who saw prices rising should have taken the proper steps to lock in the price on construction materials using either the markets, or just simply buying it all out right at the BEGINNING of the construction project.

When you have a tower, or a light rail system, or anything for that matter that is going to use large sums of concrete, copper, steel, etc etc , you take measures to insure certain costs are Fixed, not variable.

The whole excuse that construction costs are going up is a lack of forsight and management.

(PS---Do you know why Helan Adams Realty was chosen as the realtor on the project?)

A2

Edited September 18, 2006 by A2

[Miesian Corners]

My source still says the GC hasn't been paid for the work on the parking garage at EpiCentre and that work has slowed because of it.

As for F & C, I think atlrvr is right on the money. Have any of you been to their website and seen what the other F & C projects look like? EEK! Stick built suburban apartments. Not only is this their first steel and concrete development, it's their first urban one. Even in their hometown of Indianapolis, they have done no urban housing (even the company's headquarters is in a suburban office park!).

[uptownliving]

Does you source say if there is a dispute between Ghazi and the GC on the costs or is it simply that Ghazi is not paying the bills?

[Miesian Corners]

Does you source say if there is a dispute between Ghazi and the GC on the costs or is it simply that Ghazi is not paying the bills?

I was told it was due to Ghazi not paying (since mid-summer).

[uptownliving]

Grrr well thats not good...thanks for sharing the info. I hope this is not a precursor to Ghazi coming back to City Council or Meck Co asking for more money. I know that I would not support giving additional money...especially since the movie theatre is no longer part of the project.

[dubone]

I'm not sure who would support giving him more money! I sure wouldn't.

By the way, has anyone checked on what those terms were? The deal was given to Spectrum to support the renovation of the civic center, to get retail built in time for the arena opening.

I mean, the arena is already old, and this is a new developer, and a totally different project. I'm sure the terms were loose enough to cover all of this, but I'm beginning to wonder.

[uptownliving]

The terms were that Ghazi would get a "value" of $3.2M from the City and $3.2M from the County. I say value because the city wasn't actually giving money to Ghazi...rather they were agreeing to pay for new sidewalks and the pedestrian bridge connection to the development from the Lynx LRT station. They also are not charging him for using the public right of way during construction, and the value of that was factored into the deal. Mecklenburg County worked out a deal where they would rebate 1/2 of the sales tax collected by retailers at the project until it hits a value of $3.2M.

[dubone]

Ok. So he won't get a dime unless there are sales tax proceeds.

[Ryepow]

So they are going ahead with the bowling alley over a movie theatre? With all the hotels, condos, light rail, right at the door step it seems a movie theatre would be more popular. I will wait for official word about the movie theater, but if it's true this entertainment center doesn't sound very entertaining any more. With out both I feel sorry for the people who already bought at 210 Trade when they were promised these anchors as a entertainment center and all they get is some cheap chain restaurants and sports bars that are open 6 days a week and close at 9 on a week day. You can find a abundance of similar places in a two block radius right now. I sure wouldn't go out of my way to spend any time there if this turns out to be true.

[Kitty City Inc]

So they are going ahead with the bowling alley over a movie theatre?

The bowling alley isn't going in either. I'm pretty sure FOX Sports Grille has pulled out of the project as well. Hopefully. Tinderbox and Auntie Anne's Soft Pretzels are still onboard. This is turning out to be nothing more than an Overstreet Mall Annex.

Very dissapointing, but not surprising, considering the various entities involved.

[dubone]

This is all very disappointing, if true.

Does anyone know if the shell of the space will still be there? That is, if the economics work better in 5 years for bowling and movies, could they still build it? Not that there aren't a zillion other places uptown that couldn't house them, but it just would be such a shame to be so close to getting them, only to have them fall through.

If the did fall through, I hope Grubb goes back and fights for a tenant for the movie theater he had planned. That one seemed to fall through when Regal bought Eastern Federal, and the one at Epicenter was planned.

[AuLukey]

Grubb is a posibility. I am curious though whether you idea of space will turn out if indeed they have backed out. I'm still a little shocked they would back out due to the future demographic of the area. Granted, if the demographic turns out wrong, then they will have lost a lot of mula.

It's a smart business decision to not play too many cards right now, but there is no reason the space can't be built for the future. I mean, if they held out on the space needed for a bowling alley and a movie theatre, that's practically an entire section out of the three to be built sections. I wonder if they will just build two with the option of the third later on.

With aLoft and the new Ritz right on the same block, i can't see how a small two screen lux movie theatre at least would fail in that location. That's on top of the residents of TTT and the growing night life in center city.

All I can say for sure, we'll see.

[Charlotte_native]

The theater was one of the reasons I was excited about moving uptown. That will be the one element still missing for a core city that we will be forced to go elsewhere for. We already have to in Dilworth -- it seems in general that all of our theaters are fairly far out other than Phillips Place and Park Road.

Go Netflix!

Edited September 23, 2006 by Charlotte_native

[Mobuchu]

Here are some updates from 9-23-06

Current:

And, hopefully after:

Its still too early to tell where the blank walls are going to be at street level. We all know that from the parking garage entrance, up Trade to College is going to be a wall. (It is the same in all renderings, drawings and the model). The question is below the garage entrance (to either side of the steps going up to the main level), and along College st.

I can live with the wall along Trade from the corner to the garage entrance, but if the two retail spots on Trade by the steps dont go in I will be very dissapointed. Even NYC has sections of blank walls, even on the signature streets, but if the entire block from the LRT tracks to College st. has no "people" places, I'm gonna be pissed.

Its really hard to tell where those steps are going yet. There is space for a small shop to the right of where I think they will be. And we will have to wait for 210 to get further along to see the retail space at the bottom of it.

[rockhilljames]

How do rumors get started, they

[cltheel.sdl]

Yeah, I am fairly positve both Fox Grill and Lucky Strike are still in the project. I did hear the theater pulled out though.

[Kitty City Inc]

Yeah, I am fairly positve both Fox Grill and Lucky Strike are still in the project. I did hear the theater pulled out though.

You would be wrong. Lucky Strike is definitely not putting a location in the Epicentre. Thats not to say someone wouldn't attempt to imitate the concept and go ahead with it anyway, which is exactly what will happen if there's a bowling alley in the Epicentre.

Not sure about Fox Sports Grille, except to say they are going to be opening a Charlotte location for sure, but not necessarily in the Epicentre.

Whatever the case may be, it doesn't sound like this project will be redefining nightlife here in Charlotte like everyone was led to believe.

Also, I'd like to add if someone has decidely negative info about a project to share, doesn't mean he/she hopes that it will fail.