210 Trade | EpiCentre

[monsoon]

...... Obviously it is getting built. .......

Do you have some information on this that has yet to be posted here?

[schmopperX]

There is nothing that gives me confidence that the tower portion of this project will ever be built. The EpiCenter will and is being built anyone can see that. But the tower is a whole other mystery unto itself.

I would be more optimistic that the Vue might be completed before 210 Trade, "if" either of them are built.

Not trying to be pesimistic, but I'm that cynical. I hope it does get built tho, just expect for those hopes to be dashed.

[dubone]

These discussions of 210 Trade vs The Vue should be taken off this thread, please.

There is a whole other thread for that discussion, as to which or both will actually be seen to completion.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25337

[Charlotte_native]

Do you have some information on this that has yet to be posted here?

Just the visual of seeing construction crews, concrete being poured, and site work all over the place. I suspect if there were going to nix parts or all of this project they would quit spending that money on this progress.

The 210 folks are still fully marketing the project as well. I have no insider info and know nothing more, just that I have rarely seen something moving along that stopped forever (other than The Park but they are now seemingly moving forward, albiet at a snails pace). Even the Pink Building halted for quite a while (can't remember how long) but was finally finished.

Edited October 6, 2006 by Charlotte_native

[ElricSeven]

Just the visual of seeing construction crews, concrete being poured, and site work all over the place. I suspect if there were going to nix parts or all of this project they would quit spending that money on this progress.

The 210 folks are still fully marketing the project as well. I have no insider info and know nothing more, just that I have rarely seen something moving along that stopped forever (other than The Park but they are now seemingly moving forward, albiet at a snails pace). Even the Pink Building halted for quite a while (can't remember how long) but was finally finished.

I think the retail part will finish just because the most expensive work is probably already finished and the remainder (using a forward-looking going concern value) is more than supported by potential retail revenue. Decisions are made as to what makes sense on future capital and return because you can't get back what you've already spent.

[cltheel.sdl]

^ Yeah, I'm learning about sunk costs in Econ 101. It would definitely make no sense stopping now when they're already done so much work. They can't get that money back, so their only choice is to keep constructing.

[dubone]

You're not learning your sunk cost lesson very well cltheel . Go ask Dr. Benevie (or whoever you actually have) for more help. The idea of sunk costs is that they are already spent and are not recoverable. They should never factor in decision making. Decision making should be based on future variable costs.

That is, sunk costs are not part rational decision making, it doesn't mean that people don't end up factoring them it. But they shouldn't, theoretically.

Mr. Ghazi could look at this project and determine he will lose MORE money by continuing, then the project could be cancelled.

[ElricSeven]

You're not learning your sunk cost lesson very well cltheel . Go ask Dr. Benevie (or whoever you actually have) for more help. The idea of sunk costs is that they are already spent and are not recoverable. They should never factor in decision making. Decision making should be based on future variable costs.

That is, sunk costs are not part rational decision making, it doesn't mean that people don't end up factoring them it. But they shouldn't, theoretically.

Mr. Ghazi could look at this project and determine he will lose MORE money by continuing, then the project could be cancelled.

Right, but either conclusion could be supported depending upon the circumstances, but if the original project appeared to be supported by rental rates, then with half the job done already (or half the expense paid) it would still make more sense to finish even if they're only sure of renting half of it out. And, I bet they're well past half completed on the expense side. Implosion, cleanup and foundation work have to be pretty darn expensive and they've also poured a few levels. There's only a few more levels on the retail side - I would guess the equivalent expense of putting something in the burbs - and it will bring in top-drawer retail rates.

Think of it this way, if someone offered the project as is to you for one dollar out of bankruptcy, would you buy it? My guess is that you'd jump on the deal and get financing quite easily with the assurance that the remaining costs would be well-supported by the leases.

[cltheel.sdl]

Ok maybe I did a bad job of explaining what I learned. I did mention that you couldn't get them back, that's what I meant to begin with and what you typed.

[revitalize]

Well, lets say they keep building but determine the economics of it will not work at 50 stories. Couldn't we potentially see a reduction in scale for the building to save cost... i.e. 25 story instead of 50? or wouldn't it make enough difference in the cost since it is the demo and foundation work that is so expensive?

[Charlotte_native]

Well, lets say they keep building but determine the economics of it will not work at 50 stories. Couldn't we potentially see a reduction in scale for the building to save cost... i.e. 25 story instead of 50? or wouldn't it make enough difference in the cost since it is the demo and foundation work that is so expensive?

I think that is what happened w/ The Pink Building. Wasn't it originally going to be higher but was reduced.

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Are these all just rumors?

Please tell me the 50 story tower will be built. I love that green glass planned!

Also, if ghazi is in trouble, can't he try to find a partner?

[swh1972]

Also, if ghazi is in trouble, can't he try to find a partner?

How about Colonial Properties? They seem willing to step in and help projects get completed...

[Neo]

Maybe they are waiting until the parking deck gets completed? Here is some work on a wall adjoining the tower portion that was put up today. The first shot is of yesterday at 5PM and the last image is of 5PM today:

[AuLukey]

I noticed that too Neo, seems that even though they are making little progress on the tower portion, at least they are making some. I know the bottom five floors of TTT are part of Epicentre, so it's really impossible to determine at this point whether or not this will get built. Seems they only have one section of the parking deck left to do (bottom right,) the ground floor is being built up slowly but surely. Anybody have any street level pics since they started building this new level?

[UrbanCharlotte]

[AuLukey]

Great pictures! You must've read my mind or something. 26 minutes is a better turn around than the fire department. Thanks!

[UrbanCharlotte]

That was 2 days ago, but since then theyve poured those two slabs and worked a lot more on the first level of retail. Ill try to get some pics tomorrow.

[rockhilljames]

How about this: They've always said that the Epicenter portion would be built first with the tower to follow.

Lord we have a lot of chicken-littles on this board.

[jednc]

I think that is what happened w/ The Pink Building. Wasn't it originally going to be higher but was reduced.

I'm almost positive that was a compromise with the Dilworth neighborhood whose collective heads were about to explode at the thought of such a tall high rise being in SouthEnd. I think they (developer) shortened the building to quiet the noise...and then chose "desert pink" glass to give the community the finger.

[monsoon]

The building was shortened from 40 stories or so. I think the real reason he didn't build at that height is he discovered there wasn't enough demand for it. Given they still have unsold units in the Arlington that was probably a good move on his part. The Dilworth HOA complained about the shorter building too. They complain about everything, so this isn't unusual.

Edit: Ahh I found the original rendering for it. Notice that it was in technicolors too.

[Charlotte_native]

The building was shortened from 40 stories or so. I think the real reason he didn't build at that height is he discovered there wasn't enough demand for it. Given they still have unsold units in the Arlington that was probably a good move on his part. The Dilworth HOA complained about the shorter building too. They complain about everything, so this isn't unusual.

Edit: Ahh I found the original rendering for it. Notice that it was in technicolors too.

Though I don't have a problem w/ the Pink Building, this would have been amazing!

[monsoon]

This is the rendering of what was approved for construction. I call this Arlington in Blue. Note how different this is from what was actually assembled.

[dxartist]

correct me if I'm wrong, was the Arlington suppose to be called Crescent South at time?

[monsoon]

^I have not heard of that before, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the case.