Long Term Rail and CATS Transit Plans

[dubone]

In 25 years, they will be discussing on UrbanGalaxy.org, what idiots we were for not building trains into Cabarrus county.

And we'll be on there with 20 purple stars saying "I told ya so" .

[Miesian Corners]

And Daniel Levine will be commissioning another study for his First Ward land.

[dubone]

And I-77 will be just starting to be widened from 3 lanes.

[cinco]

and i will be hosting a "pampered chef" party @ my penthouse @ the "park".

[Miesian Corners]

Meanwhile, Dee Dee will be laid to rest in her big hole.

[dubone]

If light rail is actually being built in the median of North Tryon Street, why is that the existing North Tryon Street bridge over 485 could not be used?

Surely light rail isn't heavier than the trucks that the bridge was built to support.

[atlrvr]

Because I don't think there is a median up there....it is all turn lanes for the interstate.

The plan is for the light rail to jump out of the median somewhere around Mallard Creek Church Rd.

[monsoon]

Because I don't think there is a median up there....it is all turn lanes for the interstate.

The plan is for the light rail to jump out of the median somewhere around Mallard Creek Church Rd.

Actually there are not any turn lanes on the bridge itself, but there is no room for a train. That is because it is two bridges, one for each direction, with just enough room for the lanes plus shoulder space for emergencies. Between the two bridges where the train would normally run it just open space to the road below. It is exactly a design you would use if you want to prevent a train from using it. As a result they will have to build a bridge for a train here if they plan to run it past 485.

[dubone]

Could they not just drop the shoulder? For crying out loud, can't people push their cars 100 feet until they get off the bridge, why does every linear inch of road in this country need a shoulder?

They could also potentially just take one of the lanes, and either have one fewer car lane, or else allow a mixed LRT/car traffic lane on the bridge.

[monsoon]

Given the design of those bridges, I don't think so as there just isn't enough room. The shoulders are there for safety reasons for breakdowns and accidents and I don't think anyone will agree to remove them for a train. And even then you might still lose at least one of the lanes too. I don't see it happening.

[dubone]

Oh, actually, I think it is the University City Blvd bridge that is two separate bridges. Atlrvr is right that the Tryon St bridge consists of two through lanes and one turn lane on each side of a single bridge. It also has a painted median and shoulder for breakdowns.

http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=19&v=1

If the state could build a loop from northbound Tryon to northbound 485, it might allow enough room on the bridge for light rail.

Although I am highly skeptical of this second idea being useful, here it is:

There is a section near the Tryon Street bridge where 485 crosses a stream. Is it possible that there is enough room below those bridges for LRT tracks, but that could still be raised high enough to avoid being in the flood plain?

http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=18&v=1

[dubone]

I also am a little skeptical that bridges are really so prohibitively expensive. We built so many bridges on the S LRT line. I feel like the ridership potential for the Pavilion, Lowes Motor Speedway, and if the line goes this far, to Concord Mills, is high enough to warrant a $5-10m bridge.

[monsoon]

Your are right, I had the bridge on 49 in mind. Oddly enough the state did build a railroad bridge across 485 there.

Personally I think running the LRT this far out is just a waste of money. The area is a huge mess of badly planned sprawl and I don't see any hope that it can be fixed. The LRT does not come anywhere close to the capacity to even make a dent in the transportation needs when a major race occurs, and for most of the year the track is closed, so a station there would be mostly unused. And nobody is going to build housing near the race track.

They should run that line to UNCC and terminate it there maybe with a final station at the old mallard creek church road. The problem is the area is completely pedestrian unfriendly but maybe they could make it a park and ride place.

With the money saved, they should build a cross connector from the University area over to the commuter rail line at Harris and 115. That would have the effect of directly connecting the Lake area to the University area and I predict much higher ridership.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Independence will be widen to Village Lakes Drive in 25 years.

[orulz]

Although I am highly skeptical of this second idea being useful, here it is:

There is a section near the Tryon Street bridge where 485 crosses a stream. Is it possible that there is enough room below those bridges for LRT tracks, but that could still be raised high enough to avoid being in the flood plain?http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=18&v=1

That makes too much sense to be practical

Seriously, though. I wonder what sort of clearance there is under that bridge? Looks like they built it a good deal longer than necessary to accommodate the creek. And it's in just the right place. I wonder whether this was considered at all by CATS?

Maybe you should send them an e-mail.

[dubone]

I think the long/wide bridge over that creek is because they have a very gradual slope, perhaps as one of those wildlife crossings or whatever that they get credit for from the Sierra Club and stuff.

If there really is enough room, I say CATS should look at putting trains at least to the Pavilion. That would have more frequent events.

I only think it should go to LMS if private funds pay for the extension. Perhaps then it could just be a special events extension, but otherwise the train would end at the Pavilion. Even if it only makes a dent in the overall transportation for the events, it at least fills up the trains with serious ridership for a few weeks a year.

[monsoon]

I would change the proposals as follows.

Extend the present LRT through Noda to the Sugar Creek stop. Instead of going to UNCC, extend the line through Pineville to include new stop at Pineville near the mall, two in Ft Mill and 3 in Rockhill including one at Winthrop University. They may have to run some of the trains as express trains for this distance or split the travel into two segments.

Build a commuter rail line that roughly follows independance and mainly focuses on getting people off that horrible road. I would not make any stops on it between Eastway and Downtown. Extend it all the way into Union and Monroe if they will pay. Run this line to Gateway Station.

Run a commuter rail line from Gateway to Gastonia. Place stops at the Airport, Belmont, Cramerton, 2 in downtown Gastonia, park & ride on 321, and a final stop in Dallas.

Build the JC Smith to Eastland streetcar line. Make sure it connects Gateway Station to the LRT.

Run a NE commuter rail line from Gateway station to Concord. This line would initially parallel the LRT but the first stop would be at Eastway drive, then Harris Blvd, UNCC (on 49 side), 485, Harrisburg, 3 stops in Concord including one at 85, and or or two stops in Kannapolis where the final stop could be at the Kannapolis train station. Leave the option to continue this line further.

[atlrvr]

Independence will be widen to Village Lakes Drive in 25 years.

And Harris Blvd will be realigned to connect with Village Lake with an overpass over Independence.......the smartest thing that CDOT and NCDOT have ever come up with in my opinion.

Run a commuter rail line from Gateway to Gastonia. Place stops at the Airport, Belmont, Cramerton, 2 in downtown Gastonia, park & ride on 321, and a final stop in Dallas.

Well someone posted a link about the SEHSR line going from Gateway Station to the airport.....so it seems like adding commuter rail to this line is a possibility as well.

[monsoon]

....

Well someone posted a link about the SEHSR line going from Gateway Station to the airport.....so it seems like adding commuter rail to this line is a possibility as well.

That was me, but I also added that I don't think that part of the SEHSR will ever see the light of day. I won't get built unless SC and GA commit funding to the project and I just don't see them doing that. So instead I make the proposal above for a commuter rail on that ROW.

[monsoon]

There is a good way to experience train travel out of Charlotte this weekend. Ride the Santa Train being operated by the NCRR. More info here.

[ChiefJoJo]

QUOTE(dubone @ Nov 30 2005, 06:59 PM)

Although I am highly skeptical of this second idea being useful, here it is:

There is a section near the Tryon Street bridge where 485 crosses a stream. Is it possible that there is enough room below those bridges for LRT tracks, but that could still be raised high enough to avoid being in the flood plain?http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=18&v=1

That makes too much sense to be practical

Seriously, though. I wonder what sort of clearance there is under that bridge? Looks like they built it a good deal longer than necessary to accommodate the creek. And it's in just the right place. I wonder whether this was considered at all by CATS?

Maybe you should send them an e-mail.

Chances are the bridge was built to span that much of the floodway due to environmental reasons. Even without looking, placing LRT next to a creek is extremely unlikely to be feasible. Several impact no-no's in transportation infrastructure: historic properties, railroads, streams & wetlands.

[dubone]

Chances are the bridge was built to span that much of the floodway due to environmental reasons. Even without looking, placing LRT next to a creek is extremely unlikely to be feasible. Several impact no-no's in transportation infrastructure: historic properties, railroads, streams & wetlands.

Yeah, I figured as much. On the Mecklenburg County GIS, it does look like half the land under the span is not in the floodway, but I'm sure it is still in the floodplain or is just not tall enough under the bridge.

[ChiefJoJo]

I just wanted to give the Charlotte area props for it's proactive approach to transit. It's become apparent that it was the right approach, given--in contrast--the TTA's recent failures. This quote says it all:

Nick Tennyson, a Republican former Durham mayor, said he hoped TTA would find the backing it needed in Washington. Charlotte's transit project had political clout, he said, because local residents approved a sales tax increase to help pay for it.

"Absent some tangible popular support like that, I don't see any politician on the planet who's going to go too far out on the limb for this," Tennyson said.

[RiverwoodCLT]

I just wanted to give the Charlotte area props for it's proactive approach to transit. It's become apparent that it was the right approach, given--in contrast--the TTA's recent failures. This quote says it all:

Stop thinking so big. Build a trolley line some where in Raleigh, that will insure lots of riders. Pay for it with local funds. Show the feds it will work, if they don't buy it, just built local LRT for Raleigh. If this does not

work, a $800 million line will not work. The people of Wake county must buy into these plans and support

them with some type of tax to support it.

Houston, TX built their LRT, the feds would not give them any money.

Charlotte built its trolley line without fed. funds.

Good luck

[bobliocatt]

A couple of questions for Charlotte forumers. How large is the city's BRT system and what, if any, TODs have been built along this line? How is ridership compared with the trolley and planned light rail ridership estimates? Thanks.