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Soleil Center I & II at Crabtree

durham_rtp

By durham_rtp
in The NC Triangle

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NCpride Unincorporated Area

NCpride

Posted
Posted

If It Ever Gets Built Well, if it never materializes (and you know with as many proposals as are out there that some won't) at least they can claim to be the ones for knocking down the ugly Sheraton.

Wow, I can't believe they haven't sold a single condo in a year's time with $350,000 invested in advertising.

They need to sell 25 units before construction can start. What could possibly change in the next few months that would spur buyers? I don't see how this project is going to make it.

I can only wonder if it would have been more successful if it was located downtown???

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sax184 Hamlet

sax184

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I am completely unsurprised that they are having trouble selling high-rise luxury "urban living" in a skyscraper that opens out into a suburban auto slum, when as the N&O notes today:

Now Soleil needs buyers for condos that will cost from more than $350 per square foot to $600 a square foot. By comparison, the average third-quarter price for condos in downtown Raleigh was about $250 a square foot, according to the Downtown Raleigh Alliance.

The number 1 rule in real estate remains location, location, location. There is no locational benefit in terms of neighborhood uniqueness for the Soleil's location. If you think they're having trouble now, wait until some of the new mid-rise and high-rise buildings downtown come online.

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dombalis Unincorporated Area

dombalis

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I agree 100% with that last post. I don't care what anyone says, a project of that magnitude would have hurt downtown's development immensely. If the PTB want a "Midtown" so badly, have it extend from Highwoods to North Hills. I honestly don't think that portion of Glenwood needs any more traffic, anyway. I say we put up some public art in its place. :shades:

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Damien Whistle-Stop

Damien

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I think it is a great location...for a hotel, certainly not for $3 mil. condos though. They should have just planned to tear the Sheraton down and build a new hotel, not an architectural marvel for the city. I guess the area isn't hurting that bad for hotels, but it would be a very convenient location for one since it has close proximity to 440 , the arena, and the mall. Oh well. Only time will tell.

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NCpride Unincorporated Area

NCpride

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Agreed. Let's see a real nice 10-15 luxury hotel in its place. It would be a much better match with the surrounding area. Maybe the developers would consider building the condo component in the downtown area.

That seems like a good way for the developer to save face too.

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JTsaysToYou Whistle-Stop

JTsaysToYou

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I wonder if the units would've sold if they put them downtown at those same prices.......

just a thought.

I think this would look a lot better downtown, maybe as a companion to Reynolds.

Is it ever common for developers to move where they are putting a project? Would they move the whole thing downtown? or is that not a feasible option?

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Justin6882 Hamlet

Justin6882

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Seems like I remember the developers saying that Westin didn't want to go downtown - now that was approximately two years ago, so I'm not sure if that view has changed since...but I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to anymore? However, I do think that spot is a great place for a hotel - close proximity to the RBC Center, downtown, and the beltline to get them to RTP, just not necessarily the best place for $1mil+ condos.

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Rufus Hamlet

Rufus

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the original plan for the site was to renovate the old Sheraton and make it a Westin. They had two designs for it and one was good and the other ok, but the plans were scrapped because it would have cost too much to just renovate the building.

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ncwebguy Burg

ncwebguy

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At least the rouse of a November grounbreaking is finally removed. Did anyone think that was going to happen? Wasn't the rush through the planning commission and city council done so they could meet all that pent up demand for high end penthouses?

Will the "49 condos instead of the 41 being considered several months ago" require Council approval? One of the conditions (asked for by Meeker, I think) is that any changes to the plan would need to be approved. They will probably get a "density bonus" from the proposed zoning update for the building's architecture, and maybe more if they provide some money for affordable housing elsewhere.

254 hotel rooms, 49 condos, etc. is the *highest* use for that space, but is it the *best* use? The market has had a year to say something, and said it isn't going to pay $350+ a square foot for the condos, despite $350,000 in various ad buys and a flashy web site.

I like the fact that on here some things are "good ideas" only after they are suggested two or three times.

The current "problem" with the Soleil group is that they think too big for the market. A project like this would make sense in about five years or so, but a bayb doesn't go from crawling to running -- there is a clumsy walking stage in between. That is where the Triangle is right now. They bought the Sheraton, imploded it, and are now parading it around and pretending it can "run" and is worth $100 a square foot more than condos in the heart of the city.

They are all sizzle, no steak. This could be a *positive* if they teamed up with another established developer who has been there, done that. Three I can think of right away include Greg Hatem, the father and son Reynolds team, and Greg Saunterer. They have a decent read on the pulse of the area, but they aren't flashy, unlike Donald Trump wannabes Dicky Walia and Sanjay Mundra. Eventually Raleigh will be ready for the $3 million condo, which a team approach could capitalize on.

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RALBOI Whistle-Stop

RALBOI

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I e-mailed the Soliel group today while, I was at work, I won't "quote" him word for word,But Dicky Walia responded and said that the N&O did not get the story right. And he also said "you cannot ring the cash register", "when the store is closed" and that they had not started to sell the condo's yet. He also said that when they start selling condo's which will be on November 1,2006 three of the four biggest unit's, will more that likely be sold. And that they had a reservation list of 170+ people, that are very interested in buying these condo's and that the project will be built on time. :thumbsup:

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RaleighRick Whistle-Stop

RaleighRick

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I e-mailed the Soliel group today while, I was at work, I won't "quote" him word for word,But Dicky Walia responded and said that the N&O did not get the story right. And he also said "you cannot ring the cash register", "when the store is closed" and that they had not started to sell the condo's yet. He also said that when they start selling condo's which will be on November 1,2006 three of the four biggest unit's, will more that likely be sold. And that they had a reservation list of 170+ people, that are very interested in buying these condo's and that the project will be built on time. :thumbsup:

Nice work RALBOI.

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dmccall Burg

dmccall

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Interesting, RALBOI. Some of you who yearn for this project downtown must be the type who insist on wearing two left shoes. Let's start at the beginning:

1) The Crabtree area is DYING for a high end hotel. The location is fantastic as it is relatively convenient to the airport, the RBC Center/stadium, and has Raleigh's best mall across the street (dad goes into Raleigh for business and mom and the kids poke around the mall all day).

2) 40-50 condos in the area isn't a big impact on traffic, and when more condos than that were proposed for the Steak & Ale site, there was nothing but praise from this board.

3) You're building a nice hotel...if you can put those 40-50 condos in the complex, it's THE SAME THING, but the condos are more desirable.

"Moving" this project downtown does not address the fact that the Crabtree area is DYING for a high end hotel. The area will get its hotel eventually and I'll bet that more than 50 condos will be built in the next 5 years up on the hill...yet in a demonstration of illogic, people on this board will not see it as "competition" to downtown like is being said now.

Claims that people don't want to live in high-rise in suburbia haven't travelled enough. EVERY city has high rise condos within walking distance of its best mall. There are people everywhere who want this.

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sax184 Hamlet

sax184

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Claims that people don't want to live in high-rise in suburbia haven't travelled enough. EVERY city has high rise condos within walking distance of its best mall. There are people everywhere who want this.

Sorry, but this may be true for Atlanta and Houston, or Dallas, but I challenge you to come up with 5 examples of other cities in the US in this situation. And for height, let's say 20 stories. If you come up with 3, I'll be shocked.

Meanwhile, things just got worse for Soleil.

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JTsaysToYou Whistle-Stop

JTsaysToYou

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Question, would many of the people living in Soliel live there all the time, or would they be people who have lotsa money and travel here occasionally, getting a little thing in little ol' raleigh. Just wondering. And also, why don't people get that this is competition for downtown. Downtown has highrise expensive condos, soliel has high rise expensive condos. That looks like competition to me.

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dmccall Burg

dmccall

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JT, Downtown and Crabtree are totally separate housing markets. That's why Soliel's condos are not competition for RBC. The real question is do you want to live in a condo near crabtree and closer to RBC, or do you want the downtown Raleigh experience.

Sorry, but this may be true for Atlanta and Houston, or Dallas, but I challenge you to come up with 5 examples of other cities in the US in this situation. And for height, let's say 20 stories. If you come up with 3, I'll be shocked.

Meanwhile, things just got worse for Soleil.

That's definitely a challenge to prove given that Google hits are awash with new projects and proposals. (There is little info on the net about stuff that was built in the 60's and 70's.). You also are tying my hands a bit when you disqualify 3 of America's largest cities. The older cities like NYC and Boston have spread and swallowed small towns, and are not called "NYC" if you live out in Connecticut, so research is more difficult with that.

Finally the 20 story requirement is arbitrary and really has nothing to do with the viability of Soliel Center. SC is a skinny cluster of 45 or so condos sitting ON TOP of a desparately needed hotel. If it were sitting beside the hotel, the entire point of the building beyond just a hotel would be moot. Therefore 20 stories is not a valid comparison. A more appropriate number is 6 stories. Most feel that anything above that height is "high-rise" living. Residents are out of touch with life at the pedestrian level.

Poking around I wasn't able to find much about my assertion. However, I do remember condos in Pentagon City (Washington, DC), Tampa, and Las Vegas, off the top of my head. There are other projects existing or planned in Philadelphia, Chicago, Miami, Charlotte, Phoenix, Jersey City (NYC), Tysons Corner (Washington, DC), and Minneapolis (#1, #2).

There is tons more information at the unPlanning Journal, and the Skyscraper Page Forum.

Now you can go do some homework. :rolleyes:

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