Va. Beach Town Center project 2

[RJWGMU]

I ate at Guadalajara yesterday for lunch. Pretty good, not too pricy, but it was loud.

And we were right before about the pilings being for the elevated walkway. They were pouring concrete into vertical columns on either side of the street when I was there.

[Alpine757]

I ate at Guadalajara yesterday for lunch. Pretty good, not too pricy, but it was loud.

Yeah, it seems to be a loud place... I heard that after 10pm only 25+ guys & 23+ girls are allowed in the restaurant, and also that dress attire is collared shirts tucked in, no sandals etc.

Not sure how great of a thing that is, especially for me since my g/f is >23 but I'm not >25...

[RJWGMU]

Yeah, it seems to be a loud place... I heard that after 10pm only 25+ guys & 23+ girls are allowed in the restaurant, and also that dress attire is collared shirts tucked in, no sandals etc.

Where did you hear this?

[Alpine757]

Where did you hear this?

My g/f had gone out there Saturday night with some friends, and at 10, all the men were 'asked' to leave the restaurant since they had sandals on. Apparently they explained the dress code and age rules to the group before they all decided to leave.

[vdogg]

My g/f had gone out there Saturday night with some friends, and at 10, all the men were 'asked' to leave the restaurant since they had sandals on. Apparently they explained the dress code and age rules to the group before they all decided to leave.

I'm all for upscale but that's a bit too strict if you ask me. 21 and up is fine and keeps Granby street vibrant, I see no reason to make it 25.

[Alpine757]

I'm all for upscale but that's a bit too strict if you ask me. 21 and up is fine and keeps Granby street vibrant, I see no reason to make it 25.

Also, there really isn't a reason to seperate ages by gender... it's pretty common to date someone of equal age, and pretty lame when only one of you is allowed inside.

[spiker3]

Also, there really isn't a reason to seperate ages by gender... it's pretty common to date someone of equal age, and pretty lame when only one of you is allowed inside.

I'd look into that, the sandals thing i could see, that's common place in trendy places, an establishment can choose and set a dress code, however the age thing sounds incorrect, 21+ would be correct, but setting a age limit above the drinking age is age discrimination (not to mention setting a limit above for men is sex discrimination), and i don't think Guadalajara's would pull something as illegal and stupid as that. I'd suggest looking into it, doesn't sound right.

[RJWGMU]

I'd look into that, the sandals thing i could see, that's common place in trendy places, an establishment can choose and set a dress code, however the age thing sounds incorrect, 21+ would be correct, but setting a age limit above the drinking age is age discrimination (not to mention setting a limit above for men is sex discrimination), and i don't think Guadalajara's would pull something as illegal and stupid as that. I'd suggest looking into it, doesn't sound right.

That is exactly what I was thinking... Something doesn't sound right about the situation. Maybe while being explained the policy they couldn't hear correctly because it's so loud in there.

[rusthebuss]

There are clubs out there that are have age limits. There are 35 and up clubs.

[vdogg]

There are clubs out there that are have age limits. There are 35 and up clubs.

That is true, however I just can't see guads making a 25 and up limit. They're cutting out half their clientele. It's a very popular place for young adults. They have no such age limit downtown so why here? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone know a phone number to call to confirm this?

[vaceltic]

That is true, however I just can't see guads making a 25 and up limit. They're cutting out half their clientele. It's a very popular place for young adults. They have no such age limit downtown so why here? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone know a phone number to call to confirm this?

C'mon guys. Think like a bar owner! They want HOT young girls in their bars to go with an older professional crowd. They want to sell high-priced drinks in the evenings, not coronas and PBR!! That mixes in more with the cosmopolitan feel of Town Center and prevents the place from becoming the next Peabody's. I wouldn't be surprised if City Council forced that type of agreement on them.

They put in that crazy light show on their bars....I wouldn't want a 21yo navy dude comin' in barfin all over it.

Edited August 7, 2007 by vaceltic

[urbanvb]

That is true, however I just can't see guads making a 25 and up limit. They're cutting out half their clientele. It's a very popular place for young adults. They have no such age limit downtown so why here? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Anyone know a phone number to call to confirm this?

Saw their phone number in Portfolio. 493.TOWN

[beltwayboy08]

useing my common sense,i know that property value around this modern wonder has shot up. when the TC is full, will the surrounding gas stations and old low density properties get bought up and built on? all the time, we are hearing about a new tower or office block that's being put in, the light rail system is being built, and now the mall will be taken down and redeveloped, (btw.. will this project include highrises?) i bet that a large chunk of VA beach blvd. will have new high density development similar to the TC in 10 years or so. as it spreads, it could have a bigger skyline than norfolk! what do you guys think??

[Padman]

I think it's impossible to know about this. I think TC will continue to grow, although at a somewhat slower rate after say 20 years. It has better accessibility than downtown Norfolk because of the convergence of I-64 and I-264 nearby, which will have substantially improved interchanges eventually. Downtown Norfolk will benefit from a second Midtown tunnel, but still more needs to be done to make up for other water crossings and a lack of a good north/south route (other than I-64 which isn't downtown). However, the population centroid of southside should move westward as Suffolk and Isle of Wight grow. Virginia Beach has very limited land resources for traditional suburban growth and must urbanize.

The kicker might be if a new regional shopping and mixed use center replaces Pembroke Mall, especially if it surpasses Lynnhaven Mall in attractiveness. That might make TC a more dominant center than downtown Norfolk. Light Rail connections would help also, as the whole Virginia Beach Blvd. corridor becomes denser.

[RJWGMU]

What plans are there to get rid of Pembroke Mall? I haven't heard such a thing... Is this just rumored, or for real?

[Padman]

What plans are there to get rid of Pembroke Mall? I haven't heard such a thing... Is this just rumored, or for real?

There are no plans at all to replace it, but it's a second or third tier shopping mall. It has been nicely redone inside and it could hang on for about ten more years (my wild guess) before something happens. In the meantime, land values will rise and pressure to redevelop will grow. It's ripening.

[beltwayboy08]

I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure that there were plans to do somthing to the mall? maybe not?

any way, i dont see what would stop growth from jumping some roads when the TC is full. especially when i see nothing but fast food and gas stations surrounding it. the mall would be a great place to expand. they already have the shopping. i thought i atleast heard about some pedestrian bridges from it to the TC. is there anything else that anyone heard about development outside of the TC? vdogg?

its gotta be comming soon.....

[urbanvb]

Suntrust is building a new branch on its same site which will accept the ped bridge to connect TC with the mall. I hope to get some updated pics of it soon.

[beltwayboy08]

will it just be a low lying small building?

[beltwayboy08]

useing my common sense,i know that property value around this modern wonder has shot up. when the TC is full, will the surrounding gas stations and old low density properties get bought up and built on? all the time, we are hearing about a new tower or office block that's being put in, the light rail system is being built, and now the mall will be taken down and redeveloped, (btw.. will this project include highrises?) i bet that a large chunk of VA beach blvd. will have new high density development similar to the TC in 10 years or so. as it spreads, it could have a bigger skyline than norfolk! what do you guys think??

[RJWGMU]

will it just be a low lying small building?

It is a two story building and, if they keep the original building attached when it is done, will be quite large.

[Padman]

I can't think of a single instance in the U.S. where a single development node of a suburb of a central city has surpassed the original CBD of a region in overall size. It's true that the two tallest buildings (for now) in South Hampton Roads are at TC, but in overall density (square footage of retail and office, number of employees and number of residents) TC lags behind downtown Norfolk. It also is a smaller employment center than Lynnhaven/Oceana/Hilltop. That may change, over time, but TC is not the primary business center yet, not even in Virginia Beach. Many suburban developments are now emulating traditional urban centers, and TC is one of the best and most visible examples.

[beltwayboy08]

I can't think of a single instance in the U.S. where a single development node of a suburb of a central city has surpassed the original CBD of a region in overall size.

i was reading in the washington post about a month ago and read an article about how fairfax co. has passed DC in number of people, jobs and offices and certainly prosparity. they said it "rivals" DC as the "downtown" of the metro area. eventhough it dosnt have the density. Is that what you were trying to above? I think london is like that too. only its different sections of the city, and not county boundaries.

Edited August 16, 2007 by vdogg

[metalman]

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?...9&ran=27114

TC Virginia Beach Blvd skyway article in todays Pilot.

[urbanlife]

I can't think of a single instance in the U.S. where a single development node of a suburb of a central city has surpassed the original CBD of a region in overall size. It's true that the two tallest buildings (for now) in South Hampton Roads are at TC, but in overall density (square footage of retail and office, number of employees and number of residents) TC lags behind downtown Norfolk. It also is a smaller employment center than Lynnhaven/Oceana/Hilltop. That may change, over time, but TC is not the primary business center yet, not even in Virginia Beach. Many suburban developments are now emulating traditional urban centers, and TC is one of the best and most visible examples.

Actually here in Portland that will happen two times over in my lifetime. The Lloyd District just outside of downtown has the ability to expand much larger than downtown in space, but that one still remains to be seen. The big one however is very much east of downtown where the 205, 84, and three light rail lines come together is an area dubbed the Gateway District. While currently it looks nothing like its future, over time it is an area that will surpass downtown Portland in every level and bring Portland to the next level of city.

For Hampton Roads, that is what the TC is doing for Virginia Beach. The saying goes "if VB is the biggest city in Virginia, then it should act like it." Basically you are starting to see VB act like it and much of downtown present day norfolk could fit inside the property of the pembroke mall, VB has the potential to grow much bigger than downtown norfolk simply because there is little history to destroy there and connectivity to much of the region is still very good right there.

Now, I did say VB is going to have a bigger downtown than norfolk, I said nothing of it being a prettier or more breathtaking than norfolk. Norfolk will always have the history and class of the metro. VB will have the shiny new metropolis of the region. But if the region is lucky, dense urban growth will spread between downtown norfolk, TC, and the oceanfront.