West End Summit update

[nashvylle]

Back Yard Burgers is a potential company that could move into the WES. I do not have any info other than the two sides have talked. Time will tell.

[Richard Lawson]

Back Yard Burgers is a potential company that could move into the WES. I do not have any info other than the two sides have talked. Time will tell.

[barakat]

That's disappointing about WES!

[Flowers]

^ i had heard mostly the same thing richard reported today in the cp. apparently, his condo sales have not been strong enough to justify the start of the hotel so palmer appears to be shifting gears. however, with excavation now appearing complete palmer will have to start pouring concrete soon to beat off his skeptics. it will be interesting to see if he breaks his long history of radio silence on this project after the new info reported, especially the "palmer lake" jab.

[FromParkAveToTN]

What was said in the City Paper was backed up with absolutely no facts/proof. It's very difficult for me to believe anybody other than the person solely responsible for this project and that is Mr. Alex Palmer himself.

[ATLBrain]

Richard has a good track record... of course, he said it was speculative.

[nashvylle]

Alex Palmer has no obligation to the media; a lot of peopl forget that. If Alex Palmer states that he has the money secured, then I'm going to assume there is hope.

[Midtown]

What was said in the City Paper was backed up with absolutely no facts/proof. It's very difficult for me to believe anybody other than the person solely responsible for this project and that is Mr. Alex Palmer himself.

[nashvylle]

i couldn't agree with you more midtown. Thanks for the post.

[ATLBrain]

From the pics that Smeagolsfree just posted, I couldn't help noticing that the hole for the Pinnacle Tower has a lot of activity. But the hole for WES does not appear to have any. Maybe that's the nature of the date/time when the shot was taken. How many months after the Pinnacle did WES start?

One more thing, I checked out Richard Lawson's link to the City Paper and read the adjoining article on the convention center. It seemed to me that the premise had it backwards. Instead of the CC hinging on the hotels, wouldn't it be the other way around? Just pondering.

[nashvylle]

I agree. I believe the Hotels want the CC to happen more; but then again the CC is going to be funded by the hotel/motel tax. Either way, the title of the article is a bad one

[Flowers]

Man, you hit the nail on the head with that comment.

Here are exerpts from the article that I find of extreme news value (now THAAAAAT's reporting)

"As the chatter goes, Palmer would do the office building as a first phase and hold off on the second" part of the project. Clearly, it would require a new design and perhaps that's where the hotel would come back into the picture. "

As the chatter goes.........................? ( Now THAT's Journalism folks!)

"InterContinental officials deferred questions to Palmer. Palmer's representatives did not return telephone calls for this column. "

This is probably the most accurate part of the article.

"Real estate officials have been snickering about West End Summit since Palmer announced it in May 2006. After all of the recent rain, the hole has brought some jokes about Lake Palmer on West End."

Real estate officials????????

Snickering?????

How about "Journalism"??????

It reads like a reaction to not having the phone calls returned.

Oh well, that's just my opinion, and we know what opinions are plentiful, especially if they're based on "chatter". Sheesh

MT

[Flowers]

"Real estate officials have been snickering about West End Summit since Palmer announced it in May 2006. After all of the recent rain, the hole has brought some jokes about Lake Palmer on West End."

[nashvylle]

My problem is I personally don't like anyone in the media or Nashville community who is going to belittle a Nashville project. Whether or not the article is factual, I don't care. I think everyone on this forum wants these projects to succeed, and I believe the WES would make a huge contribution to Nashville. I felt like the article today puts further doubt in the minds of potential condo buyers, potential tenants, etc.

If RL does turn out to be correct, which I hope he isn't, I certainly do not feel the need for any apologies. I respect developers such as Alex Palmer, who put all their efforts into making these projects a reality. I do not respect those who watch others and then make fun of or criticize the developer's flaws (whether those people are the media, forum posters, or just the locals).

These city changing projects need the support from the whole city. Especially the media.

[Flowers]

^ while i admire and share your enthusiasm for seeing progress in nashville i don't agree that the role of the media should simply be to shill for developers and ignore facts or (at some point) the lack of them in order to promote "progress". good things will happen for nashville with or without this and i think the public is better served by a skeptical media. earnest condo buyers need this, bankers need this, and i think our public officials need this objective reporting too. also, you seem to suggest that those in the media are lesser beings for reporting rather than developing. again, i disagree and think a skeptical media plays an important role as long as they are fair and do so with integrity. if richard had run that piece without first trying to talk to ap and the hotel company you might have a beef. the fact is that after almost 3 years of no reported tenants, lender or sales progress, alex will have to do more media work to stave off the critics some of which may understandably be his competition. i'm sure barry is not eager to see him get started and if i had risked millions to generate solid presales and begin pouring concrete on a 500k sf project i'd probably feel the same way.

again, all alex has to do to silence the critics is start reporting some substantive progress...after so much time and apparent activity there should be plenty to talk about.

[nashvylle]

you make some good points. I'm sorry if you think i was referring to anyone that isn't a developer as a "lesser being". I can however see how i inadvertently wrote that though. I have respect for reporters, because without them people like myself wouldn't have a clue on these certain projects (i would prob. still be wondering if the sounds deal was going to be complete if it wasn't for reporters).

I do however get angry at pessimistic reporters because I'm just the type of guy who thinks negativity won't help anything. On the flip side, negativity and controversy are what people want to read and that's what sells, so i understand that.

All in all, i just hope WES and the other huge projects in Nashville get built. What a change to our city that would be.

P.S. Thank you for arguing with me in a respectful way. We could have easily disagreed in an immaturely, but i'm able to see your good points with your sensible approach.

[Richard Lawson]

Hey all... Interesting debate on the colum I wrote. Nearly every developer I've talked to said selling condos at $750 per square foot was a major stretch. I just got back from Chicago and looked at some projects there. I didn't see any in the $750 per square foot range there. I'm sure they exist but very few as I was able to determine today, perhaps Trump's 92-story project. Palmer and crew don't return my calls because I have asked very specific questions about the project and questioned it. Some folks seem to have missed this line: "But if he pulled off the spec office building and filled it with tenants, then folks would have to say Palmer pulled another rabbit out of the hat just as he did with a Burton Hills office building and Palmer Plaza." So it's not out of the realm of possibility. Also, when a developer says he has his money, often times that means he has a loan commitment provided certain conditions are met such as a certain level of office preleasing or condo sales. If he goes pure spec, that may mean putting other buildings he owns up for collateral to get the loans. But as some have pointed out, I was writing about the chatter and that chatter is strong on WES. And lest anyone forget, I wrote this when I was at NashvillePost in May 2006 right after the announcement: http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2006/5/5...al_or_just_talk This and my years at The Tennessean challenging him on his announced projects hasn't put me in his good graces. However, I did write a positive story when he sold the Burton Hills building for a record per square foot price. That was one of the rabbits he pulled out of his hat in many developers' minds. And these aren't jealous folks who are chattering, they are ones who have a longer track record of projects.

And Nashvlle you are correct the headline on the other one was a little backwards. The headline was supposed to have been changed on Friday and wasn't. I don't write the headlines. The argument could be made that the CC does hinge on hotels in the respect that as long as they are going strong and rates keep going up, that means more tax collections to help fund a new convention center. But there was no room apparently for the graphic showing that hotel tax collections are about $1.3 million ahead year-to-date than last year, excluding the 1% increase in collections for a new convention center.

[ATLBrain]

And Nashvlle you are correct the headline on the other one was a little backwards. The headline was supposed to have been changed on Friday and wasn't. I don't write the headlines. The argument could be made that the CC does hinge on hotels in the respect that as long as they are going strong and rates keep going up, that means more tax collections to help fund a new convention center. But there was no room apparently for the graphic showing that hotel tax collections are about $1.3 million ahead year-to-date than last year, excluding the 1% increase in collections for a new convention center.

[Richard Lawson]

Thanks, that was me btw. I'm weird in that I usually read the headline, then the article, then the headline again to see if they jibe. LOL.

Is there any thinking (as far as you can tell) that a CC would propel Nashville to the proverbial next level of convention cities (e.g. more conventions will increase the hotel/motel tax collections by X%)? Or is there somewhat static thinking based on Y amount of revenues received now and therefore Nashville can afford Z? Does that make any sense?

Of course, you were correct about the Westin. That looks like a better move on the part of the developers to increase the number of keys rather than go with condos. I don't expect that the building will look very good (now squattier and clad in that cheesy 70s reflective glass), but Nashville seems to need an infusion of activity on that stretch of Broad.

[producer2]

Richard is absolutely correct about the reason many groups want to come to Nashville. Many Associations my company has worked with over the years have had their largest attendance here. Part of that is location and part because there is more to do here than many realize. Think about some of the choices for entertainment vs. some other cities and you will realize Nashville is a true tourism destination (Orland not withhstanding!)

[Richard Lawson]

Richard is absolutely correct about the reason many groups want to come to Nashville. Many Associations my company has worked with over the years have had their largest attendance here. Part of that is location and part because there is more to do here than many realize. Think about some of the choices for entertainment vs. some other cities and you will realize Nashville is a true tourism destination (Orland not withhstanding!)

[Midtown]

My problem is I personally don't like anyone in the media or Nashville community who is going to belittle a Nashville project. Whether or not the article is factual, I don't care. I think everyone on this forum wants these projects to succeed, and I believe the WES would make a huge contribution to Nashville. I felt like the article today puts further doubt in the minds of potential condo buyers, potential tenants, etc. If RL does turn out to be correct, which I hope he isn't, I certainly do not feel the need for any apologies.

I respect developers such as Alex Palmer, who put all their efforts into making these projects a reality. I do not respect those who watch others and then make fun of or criticize the developer's flaws (whether those people are the media, forum posters, or just the locals).

These city changing projects need the support from the whole city. Especially the media.

[Flowers]

you make some good points. I'm sorry if you think i was referring to anyone that isn't a developer as a "lesser being". I can however see how i inadvertently wrote that though. I have respect for reporters, because without them people like myself wouldn't have a clue on these certain projects (i would prob. still be wondering if the sounds deal was going to be complete if it wasn't for reporters).

I do however get angry at pessimistic reporters because I'm just the type of guy who thinks negativity won't help anything. On the flip side, negativity and controversy are what people want to read and that's what sells, so i understand that.

All in all, i just hope WES and the other huge projects in Nashville get built. What a change to our city that would be.

P.S. Thank you for arguing with me in a respectful way. We could have easily disagreed in an immaturely, but i'm able to see your good points with your sensible approach.

[Richard Lawson]

Well stated. I also have a bias toward factual and good spirited "pro Nashville" reporting, sigh. Since nobody listens to the good news, maybe stiring up controversy is "good" for the City Paper?

I certainly share your viewpoints about respect.

MT

[nashvylle]

maybe it would clarify if i say that i respect his vision and his attempts to make this project a reality. I respect his effort in other words. My respect is not for solely those that get projects done.